Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Discussions related to character builds and mechanics may occur here.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:28 pm

True, but the way I distributed my ability points was working backwards from my character's background. I guess I kinda fell into a trap of assuming that RP trumps minmaxing, otherwise I'd have started with that 16 CON I usually build a Wizard with. Can I cut off INT at 24, put 4 points into CON and still be viable?

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:49 pm

I wouldn't play a 24 int wizard myself. You'll be missing too many spell slots and your save dc's are going to be even lower.
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:12 pm

Then 12 CON will have to do.

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:29 pm

Ok. Good luck.
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:16 pm

No, you're right. No point in denying it. I ran the numbers myself and the HP loss plus the save throws are a severe disadvantage. I guess I've been trying to bargain, stages of all grief and all that :lol:
Time to remake.

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:53 pm

Glad you came around.

Remember I just threw evocation in there due to most people liking hellball and ruin. If you're going to drop something drop evo/epic evo first.

I also really personally don't think spell pen is useful but literally everything end game seems to have high SR and trash will saves so if you find value in that then go for it. You have the feats for epic spell pen esp if you drop evocation.
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:27 pm

Since STR isn't essential, is dumping it for CHA viable (just flavor reasons)? Also Spell Penetration isn't really a priority to me, I just assumed I needed it at higher levels.

Following your build, there are 19 Feats available (?), which drop to 17 if I pick any non-human race. I intend to take ESF Conjuration/Transmutation/Evocation/Abjuration, EDK, Epic Intelligence, Epic Spell Greater Ruin and Extend Spell, dropping Spell Penetration.

Now, I'd be willing to drop Evocation and perhaps Transmutation as well, since I don't know how useful it is besides teleporting. I've also seen people recommending Spell Defense: Abjuration and even Epic Skill Focus: Discipline. Any recommendations?

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:58 pm

You can get ESF Disc if you want, just make sure you take it AFTER your ranger levels when you dump to like 30 disc. It is good. Gear for discipline too, being around 60 or more is your goal.

Str isn't essential but you'll be pulling your hair out over having only like 80 lbs max carrying capacity if you don't have SOME str, which is why it's like that. Cha on the other hand does actually nothing and nobody can ever ever ever see it. If you want to do it anyway feel free, but I think you'll get really frustrated with only 80lbs of normal carry weight. It also gives some disc.

Feel free to go non-human too. Sun Elf is clearly good for this and has some natural elf-stuff to make the 'ranger' aspect cultural. You can also do a wood-elf, leave no tracks, be able to -track, and then take divination to scry, and just be the servers best tracker.

Also remember you can just select all that text I put, stick it into notepad, enter the feats you want, then select THAT and just go in game, open your journal, and ctrl+v to paste it in game, so when you level up you don't forget what to get and when!
Last edited by BegoneThoth on Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
\

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:01 am

^^^ edited that post a few times.
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:17 am

I was thinking of remaking my current character, which is a Half-Elf. Just wondering if it's detrimental to the build.

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:24 am

It is, but I'd strongly advise you to pick the race you want, I'd do human or one of the full-elves I mentioned for mechanics, but if you want a half-elf then by all means.

I only push races on people when they want like a half-orc blackguard wm or something where the race is doing the opposite of what you need.
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:49 am

What's the advantage of a full Elf versus a Half-Elf?

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:26 am

I made a test character and leveled it up to 30 in a test module, with the following build:
Race: Half-Elf

Abilies STR: 8 (I have Bull's Strength for this)
DEX: 8
CON: 18
WIS: 8
INT: 20 (28)
CHA: 12 (I know, I know)

W 01: Wizard(1): Spell Focus: Conjuration, {Scribe Scroll}
W 02: Wizard(2)
W 03: Wizard(3): Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
W 04: Wizard(4): INT+1, (INT=21)
W 05: Wizard(5): Spell Focus: Abjuration
W 06: Wizard(6): Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration
W 07: Wizard(7)
W 08: Wizard(8): INT+1, (INT=22)
W 09: Wizard(9): Spell Focus: Transmutation
W 10: Wizard(10): Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation
W 11: Wizard(11)
W 12: Wizard(12): INT+1, Extend Spell, (INT=23)
W 13: Wizard(13)
W 14: Wizard(14)
W 15: Wizard(15): Spell Focus: Divination, Greater Spell Focus: Divination
W 16: Wizard(16): INT+1, (INT=24)
W 17: Wizard(17)
W 18: Wizard(18): Spell Penetration OR Arcane Defense: Abjuration
W 19: Wizard(19)
W 20: Wizard(20): INT+1, Maximize Spell, (INT=25)
W 21: Wizard(21): Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
W 22: Wizard(22)
W 23: Wizard(23): Epic Spell: Dragon Knight
W 24: Wizard(24): INT+1, Epic SPell Focus: Abjuration, (INT=26)
W 25: Wizard(25)
W 26: Wizard(26): Epic Spell Focus: Divination
R 27: Ranger(1): Great Intelligence I, Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation, {Dual Wield}, (INT=27)
R 28: Ranger(2): INT+1, (INT=28)
R 29: Ranger(3)
W 30: Wizard(27): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
Thoughts?

Also, as for skill distribution, are Move Silently/Hide Necessary? Or Spot/Listen/Search? I don't really know what to dump into besides Discipline, I assume pretty much whatever I want?

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:27 am

Sun elf is +2 int, obviously useful. You lose -2 dex so it's not really a problem.

Other elf I mentioned was wood elf, because you talked about difficulties fitting ranger into the RP of the build. Wood elf not only explains all that, but bolsters your ranger stuff by giving you -track at your hit die bonus, and making it so you don't leave tracks. I mentioned you may want to take divination if you do this, so you can scry on people from far away and also track them if they're close, while not leaving tracks yourself, and just be able to track anyone or anything.

Half-elf doesn't really get you much aside from being a half-elf.

Edit; That build looks great.

For skills you have a boat load, so just make 100% sure you get

Tumble (get 15 ranks, cross class, so you don't provoke as many attacks by moving and you get SOME AC).
Disc
Spellcraft
Heal

Rest is up to you. I like spot a lot. I dont really like hide/ms on a wizard.

You could also become an instant millionaire by going forging, taking the craft gift, and getting max craft weapon/armor for max craft points, and make these for people

http://wiki.arelith.com/Forging:_Specia ... lven_Chain

Else is up to you.
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 am

Well, I would be getting 2 extra AP with an Elf, which is nice, but it would go into a dump stat like STR or CHA anyway, which I can probably live without. I think the loss would be more in the Keen Senses, +1 AC or the trackless step bonuses Elves get. But I want to play a Half-Elf for story reasons, so I'm willing to give up these small bonuses.

As for forging, I'll think about it. But I see no reason why a dainty wizard would by sweating over a forge making armor when he could be making spell components.

I left Spell Penetration in there by mistake, I'd probably go with the extra defense against abjuration. Not sure if it's worth it either way.

Thanks for all the feedback so far!

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:36 am

Neo wrote:Well, I would be getting 2 extra AP with an Elf, which is nice, but it would go into a dump stat like STR or CHA anyway, which I can probably live without. I think the loss would be more in the Keen Senses, +1 AC or the trackless step bonuses Elves get. But I want to play a Half-Elf for story reasons, so I'm willing to give up these small bonuses.

As for forging, I'll think about it. But I see no reason why a dainty wizard would by sweating over a forge making armor when he could be making spell components.

I left Spell Penetration in there by mistake, I'd probably go with the extra defense against abjuration. Not sure if it's worth it either way.

Thanks for all the feedback so far!
No problem. I just suggest every elf go foraging as there's one of the best craftable items and so few people make them or can make them.

Either way it's all good. Glad I could help out.
\

User avatar
Kuma
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2188
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:05 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Kuma » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:25 pm

Neo wrote:As a side-note, is starting as a human a must or can I pick another race without too much of a detriment to the build?
>red wizard
>non-human

this isn't 4th edition, friend

House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology

Irongron wrote:

4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)


User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:31 pm

Hes not op
\

Neo
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by Neo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:46 pm

I probably should have started a different thread, I didn't think the conversation would get so long.

User avatar
BegoneThoth
Posts: 1589
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am

Re: Need help with (Red) Wizard build

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:52 pm

You're fine.
\

Post Reply