Crossbow build

[bobosander12]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, dwarves or elves, humans as well as orcs.
It is I! Bobosander12, seeking help for a new build.
(Not native english speaker, but i'll try my best )

I have only played Nwn for a brief moment, and then stopped again. But BOY do i remember, that crossbows are shit. I really don't know why, people just say to me "Stay away from crossbows".
But now i have decided to play this game again, and try to make the crossbow dream come true.
I simply don't care if crossbows are bad, but i can tell you, they look badass!
That's why i want your guys help. I would like help with building a build, with the two requirements:
Race: Human
Weapon of choice: Crossbow

Keep in mind!
It don't have to be the best of the bests, just somehow optimal enough for me to use a crossbow all the time.

You'll have my wishes of luck
Sincerely: bobosander12

[Opustus]

That's the spirit!

I'd be personally looking at classes that can improve your damage, as crossbow damage is otherwise silly small. Considerations are: rogue (sneak attack), blackguard (sneak attack + divine might), paladin (divine might), cleric (divine might + divine favor). Sadly, there's no ranger path for crossbows. Is there anything out of those that interests you?

Also, making bolts in Arelith is currently quite labour-intensive, I've been told. Be sure you don't mind putting the extra work into making the ammunition.

Please use the nwnwiki (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) to look up stuff you don't know.

[miesny_jez]

An unorthodox approach (although quite effective) - TRIBAL BARBARIAN Crossbowman !

[bobosander12]

That's the spirit!

I'd be personally looking at classes that can improve your damage, as crossbow damage is otherwise silly small. Considerations are: rogue (sneak attack), blackguard (sneak attack + divine might), paladin (divine might), cleric (divine might + divine favor). Sadly, there's no ranger path for crossbows. Is there anything out of those that interests you?

Also, making bolts in Arelith is currently quite labour-intensive, I've been told. Be sure you don't mind putting the extra work into making the ammunition.

Please use the nwnwiki (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page) to look up stuff you don't know.

Paladin would do very nicely! Id rather not play rogues nor blackguards.
Paladin would also match my characters personal characteristics
EDIT:
I have read about the Paladin class a bit further, and would rather not play paladin anyways. Cleric is a more free choice, where paladins are dedicated good warriors of light and good and stuff.
So cleric it is

[bobosander12]

An unorthodox approach (although quite effective) - TRIBAL BARBARIAN Crossbowman !

I like your thinking
Honestly, that would be a good idea.

[Baron Saturday]

I'd still highly recommend picking up weapon finesse so that you have SOME melee capability. Crossbows are especially painful at lower levels without that.

[One Two Three Five]

An unorthodox approach (although quite effective) - TRIBAL BARBARIAN Crossbowman !

I like your thinking
Honestly, that would be a good idea.

Man, I wouldn't. Opustus has the best advice so far, really. Sneak attack (blackguard, rogue, assassin), divine might (paladin, cleric, blackguard), divine favor (paladin, cleric) are the easiest- and only, I guess- options, beyond the completely 100% necessary 4 fighter minimum for weapon spec.

So, beyond knowing you're going to take 4-6ish fighter, you're going to want to pick what combination of the above and other classes fits for you.

As a note, the 'hand spinneret' is REAL good, and would emulate 11 rogue levels worth of sneak attack. And should stack with BG sneaks or assassin sneaks.

One I've considered is a Fighter/BG/[Something with Uncanny Dodge and UMD] with a little bit of charisma. Grab epic fiendish servant for a tank. (Probably bad. Build improved in every possible way by using a longbow instead)

[RedGiant]

A battle-cleric type with with zen archery could do quite well. Going dex-based on a full or nearly full cleric just isn't worth it when zen archery so nicely turns your casting stat into your shooting stat.

Full wisdom dump, cha all you can, some con for survivability. Pack on the damage with divine favor + divine might + etc.

As some have mentioned here, the Drow crossbows are the best. Drow also get rapid reload for free which is a must for crossbow characters. If you MUST have human, recommend a dip class in here for significant UMD dump to get those sweet crossbows. Clerics are notoriously short on skill points. Youll want to plan this out to 30...or is that what we are supposed to be doing here???

[bobosander12]

I guess i have to describe my person a bit further:

I want to make this grumpy proud old veteran/old soldier, who is a bit paranoid.
No doubt he's paranoid, he has lost one leg in battle.
His accent is very British, (properly gonna search for some country in the forgotten realms, that can relate to British accent)
He rejects working for evildoers, and also happens to be racist.

So i guess he can't be a blackguard, since they are evil
I wan't him to have a bit of armor, and have him not so sneaky*
And i want him not to be as lawful as he may think he is, but rather be
chaotic good or neutral good. or just chaotic neutral.
Must be human!
Paladin might be good, but he's not lawful, that's where it sinks.
Rogues are stealthy, and he has too much pride to sneak around*
My choice would be cleric*

*This is bendable

[Lorkas]

Sounds to me like a fighter based on the character description.

[bobosander12]

Sounds to me like a fighter based on the character description.

If a fighter can wield a crossbow, then heck yea!

[Lorkas]

It's not gonna be strong, but they can do it. The problem is that the concept you're describing doesn't match any of the builds that would make crossbow somewhat playable.

My suggestion would be to make the character you wanna play and ditch the crossbow idea, or to make a different character that would wield a crossbow effectively. The character and build just don't match very well in this ruleset, even though the character is perfectly coherent and would work well in another system.

[Cerk Evermoore]

You'll want some UMD to use the Wardbreaker. Specialize in critting, the tribal barbarian idea mentioned is pretty good.

[bobosander12]

It's not gonna be strong, but they can do it. The problem is that the concept you're describing doesn't match any of the builds that would make crossbow somewhat playable.

My suggestion would be to make the character you wanna play and ditch the crossbow idea, or to make a different character that would wield a crossbow effectively. The character and build just don't match very well in this ruleset, even though the character is perfectly coherent and would work well in another system.

Plan B would be a spear build for the old guy, and i guess that would match fighter better.
And besides, he can always offhand the crossbow then
But i still wouldn't give up one the idea of a crossbow build for him, my mind is set!

[bobosander12]

You'll want some UMD to use the Wardbreaker. Specialize in critting, the tribal barbarian idea mentioned is pretty good.

I read a bit about the wardbreaker, and isn't it only usable for elf/halfelfs? aswell as they have to be evil?
Or is it only for forging them?
Source: http://wiki.arelith.com/Forging:_Special_weapons

[SinisterEpitaph]

I guess i have to describe my person a bit further:


Rogues are stealthy, and he has too much pride to sneak around*

Just an idea for you to play around with, but there are hundreds of ways to play a rogue. Just because you're a rogue does not mean that you have to be stealthy. Being stealthy is just typically the first thing people think of . Most of the rogues I've made actually don't stealth at all. I embrace the more rough-and-tumble thug type and have a blast doing it. There tons of charisma based skills you could center a rogue around as well.

But either way, it doesn't really seem to play along with the rest of the way you're describing your character. I'd go fighter is that's the concept you're dead set on.

[bobosander12]

I guess i have to bend the character a little, and go for rogue then.
So now i just need a good crossbow build. Because i believe in it!
So what feats do i absolutely need?

[flower]

Go with drow race and use like 26 fighter levels supported with 4 rogues?

BAB 25 + 15 (or even more, drow can begin with 20 dex) DEX + 4 feats (focuses, prowess) + 4 crossbow enchant (spinneret) + 2 additional enchant from fighter bonuses.

That is around 50 AB with +6 crossbow which should pierce any magical reduction. Damage can be small as i am not sure how good bolts can be made/found.

[bobosander12]

Go with drow race and use like 26 fighter levels supported with 4 rogues?

I would rather not play drow, can i go with human, and just sacrifice some dex for that?

[Opustus]

The only workable build without DEX means you will have to take Zen archery to compensate the lack of AB. Only classes that use WIS are Cleric, Monk and Druid, otherwise it's just a dead ability buildwise. There's also the option of using Gonnes for kewl, which are once per round ~100 damage crossbows. Very limited in use, you can't really rely on it for a solid damage output, but you can use it as an opener etc.

[bobosander12]

The only workable build without DEX means you will have to take Zen archery to compensate the lack of AB. Only classes that use WIS are Cleric, Monk and Druid, otherwise it's just a dead ability buildwise. There's also the option of using Gonnes for kewl, which are once per round ~100 damage crossbows. Very limited in use, you can't really rely on it for a solid damage output, but you can use it as an opener etc.

So i guess i would be a battle-cleric with Zen archery? And get a crossbow called Gonnes?

[Opustus]

Battle cleric can use regular crossbows for enough damage. I meant that if you do not go WIS or DEX, then Gonne is what you're stuck with, and it can't be used all the time, as it's not effective for long-term combat and the ammo for it is expensive/hard to make a lot of.

[Baron Saturday]

To expand upon gonnes a bit...

Gonnes are basically primitive guns. They use a custom heavy crossbow model that doesn't have the bow part. They require level 13, use the craftable Gonne Explosive Slugs as ammo, are fired by targeting their unlimited use/day ability, roll a ranged touch attack to hit, deal 80-100 damage, have a ~5% chance to crit for double damage and a ~5% chance to set the user on fire. They can only be fired once per round and are not affected by any feats. They CAN be used as a crossbow, but deal no base damage.

[bobosander12]

To expand upon gonnes a bit...

Gonnes are basically primitive guns. They use a custom heavy crossbow model that doesn't have the bow part. They require level 13, use the craftable Gonne Explosive Slugs as ammo, are fired by targeting their unlimited use/day ability, roll a ranged touch attack to hit, deal 80-100 damage, have a ~5% chance to crit for double damage and a ~5% chance to set the user on fire. They can only be fired once per round and are not affected by any feats. They CAN be used as a crossbow, but deal no base damage.

Man they sound awesome, i'll have that!

[Baron Saturday]

Don't get too excited! The damage they deal is actually pretty low compared to most builds, and the ammo is fairly limited. I'd highly recommend making a spear-focused character who has a gonne as a backup weapon, rather than a gonne-only character.