Decent Ranger (Archer path) and Arcane Archer Build

[Baron Saturday]

With the Dex score you're gonna have, 1 rank in open lock will be enough to open just about anything except for some specific, crazy-high DC doors. Don't forget, you can also have some backup items that boost open lock/disable trap/search - Ten Foot Pole, Enchanted Gloves of Skill, etc.

I know you really want HiPS, but taking your 16th level of ranger so soon means your discipline is gonna be really bad. Could you live with putting it off until like level 22? I'd also hold off on rogue until level 25.

[Cybernet21]

If one point of open lock is enough than i really dont know where to put the rest of the points.I guess i could use them to get the most of Tumble on Rogue Levels and pehaps cross class 5 points of UMD to get 30 at it.

As for holding of HIPS to level 22 and holding Rogue to 25,i can defintely do that if it makes the build a bit better since i already know what i want seems suboptimal,so getting everything i can off that suboptimal sounds good

[Freyason]

you can't cross class UMD

[Invader_Nym]

These are the only two options I would consider.

Option #1:
23 ranger, 4 fighter, 3 bard/rogue

Gives you a great animal companion, full ranger spell list, bane of enemies, tons of favored enemies, epic weapon specialization longbow, tons of skill points.

I actually just got done with an AA fighter archer and I found myself wanting to trade AB for damage, which the above build does.

Option number #2:

27 or even 30 ranger, skipping the fighter levels and thus epic weapon spec. If you really want UMD take 3 rogue/wizard for that.

My preference is #1 over #2.

Make sure you get weapon focus longbow, point blank shot, rapid shot, called shot, and blind fighting.

If you like the build and want help on feat selection let me know.

You may be tempted to forgo bane of enemies for +5 arrows. I think this is a huge mistake. With the build option #1 I've suggested above, you will hit hard enough to plow through premonition vs fe anyway. Also, with a high-level animal companion you'll have a summons with +8 enhancement bonus.

PS I still think they should make bladethirst work on longbows.

[Invader_Nym]

No no no to favored enemy goblinoids.

This will only be useful at low levels, but your bonus damage from BOE will be so meager at low level that it'll be negligible anyway, and you'll wish you had that FE for the tougher stuff higher in level.

You also want improved critical longbow at 9. Called shot you want to save for around level 15 or 18 when your AB becomes sufficiently high.

[Conversations With Your Car Alarm]

Here is the class spread you asked for. This is about as optimized as it can get. You build up AA early and delay Ranger and Rouge for skills. This is going to be easier to level, so you'll get the cool stuff relatively fast. It's defiantly a more power build version of the build you posted, and within the confines of the spread you want.

Ranger(16), Arcane Archer(11), Rogue(3), Elf

STR: 10
DEX: 20 (28)
CON: 14
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantments, Keen Sense, Low-light Vision, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Search, Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)
01: Ranger(1): Weapon Focus: Longbow, Favored Enemy I, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Ranger(4): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
05: Ranger(5): Favored Enemy II
06: Ranger(6): Point Blank Shot
07: Arcane Archer(1)
08: Arcane Archer(2): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Arcane Archer(3): Called Shot
10: Arcane Archer(4)
11: Arcane Archer(5)
12: Arcane Archer(6): DEX+1, Rapid Shot, (DEX=23)
13: Arcane Archer(7)
14: Arcane Archer(8)
15: Arcane Archer(9): Blind Fight
16: Ranger(7): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Ranger(8)
18: Ranger(9): Improved Critical: Longbow, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}
19: Ranger(10): Favored Enemy III
20: Arcane Archer(10): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Arcane Archer(11): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22: Ranger(11)
23: Ranger(12)
24: Ranger(13): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=26)
25: Rogue(1)
26: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
27: Rogue(3): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, {Uncanny Dodge I}
28: Ranger(14): DEX+1, (DEX=27)
29: Ranger(15): Epic Prowess
30: Ranger(16): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=28)

Hitpoints: 326
Skillpoints: 210
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 21/13/24
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +3, Mind Effects: +2
BAB: 25
AB (max, naked): 35 (melee), 44 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 27/30
Spell Casting: Ranger(4)
Alignment Changes: 0

Disable Trap 1(3), Discipline 33(43), Heal 23(25), Hide 33(42), Listen 33(37), Move Silently 33(42), Open Lock 1(10), Spellcraft 16(18), Tumble 30(39), UMD 21(20)

If you want a way more optimized version you'll have to dump some ranger levels. I could work you up something pretty crazy. Ask and I'll fix a Ranger5/Rogue13/AA11 with Epic Dodge, a Monk6/Bard5/AA19 that's the most powerful version imo, but looses the ability to easy-craft arrows, or even some kind of a Divine Might AA, or a Ranger5/AA19/Fighter6. Just say so and I'll pop them up.

[Invader_Nym]

It seems to me madness to go 16 ranger and stop there.

If you go 21 ranger you'll get +2AB and +2d6 damage, plus another point of damage from ranger favored enemy level 20, and if you get lots of ranger levels you can have the aid spell up, so that closes the gap on AA AB significantly.

You also get +2 damage at ranger level 20.

So, consider the two choices.

You go 9 AA, you'll get +5AB and +5 damage.

You go to 21 ranger, you'll gain

+2d6 damage from bane of enemies (7 damage)
+1 damage from favored enemy level 20
+2 damage from Arelith's custom changes to archer paths.

= +10 damage

You'll also gain +2AB from favored enemy and +1 from aid.
You'll also have a better animal companion.

To go to level 16 in ranger, but not 21, seems to me totally nutty.

It would also drive me crazy to get HIPS at level 30 instead of level 16.

[Cybernet21]

:
If you want a way more optimized version you'll have to dump some ranger levels. I could work you up something pretty crazy. Ask and I'll fix a Ranger5/Rogue13/AA11 with Epic Dodge, a Monk6/Bard5/AA19 that's the most powerful version imo, but looses the ability to easy-craft arrows, or even some kind of a Divine Might AA, or a Ranger5/AA19/Fighter6. Just say so and I'll pop them up.

I thank you for optimizing my build and for the suggestions but i think i'm sticking with the one that was optimized

Question though,would it make a lot of difference making as Baron suggested and getting HIPS at 22?It would mean following the build path you did until level 12 and then going 10 more levels of ranger,then the rest is AA and Rogue (Rogue still being 25,26,27)

[Cybernet21]

...

But doing what you are saying would mean losing out on UMD,and the AA stuff wouldnt do much at Enchant Arrow +5 would it?

EDIT:Because if +5 arrows with 9 AA and no UMD are still a good deal i might consider going 21 Ranger/9 AA since on Arelith rangers get the rest of what we would get on 3 Rogue levels

[Cybernet21]

Hmmm it seems i'll have to give up a feat (most probably Armor Skin) for bane of enemies if i went 21 Ranger as well...

[Baron Saturday]

At this point I'm about ready to suggest something stupid like 25 ranger/5 rogue, getting 11 favored/studied enemies, to whom you do an extra 2d6+6 damage. Would also let you pick up Bane of Enemies with the 23 ranger bonus feat, and if you really wanted, you could probably squeeze in GSF Transmutation for -teleport.

But of course, see the disclaimer in my signature.

[Cybernet21]

At this point i'm really between the build Conversations with You Car Alarm optimized,or 21 Ranger and 9 AA Thanks for the other suggestion though Baron (and everyone else).

Also,you probably know a lot more on builds than i I'm sure sooner or later Cortex will look in awe to your builds

[Invader_Nym]

...

But doing what you are saying would mean losing out on UMD,and the AA stuff wouldnt do much at Enchant Arrow +5 would it?

EDIT:Because if +5 arrows with 9 AA and no UMD are still a good deal i might consider going 21 Ranger/9 AA since on Arelith rangers get the rest of what we would get on 3 Rogue levels

Yes, you probably want UMD.

I just rolled a level 25 archer with I think 13 or 14 AA levels and the +5 arrows weren't the end-all-be-all I hoped they'd be.

I ended up having a really high AB but inadequate damage, which is why I'd go for 23 ranger, 4 fighter, 3 rogue (taking levels in that order.)

You're going to get 6 damage from weapon spec, +2 damage from level 20 ranger, +7 damage from bane of enemies, +1 damage from level 20 favored enemy.

So that's 16 damage vs the 5 you'd get from Car Alarm's. It's also the difference between a meh animal companion and a usable animal companion.

[Cybernet21]

What about your 21 Ranger/9 AA vs Car's 16 Ranger/11AA/3 Rogue ? I was talking more about that one,my quote was kinda misleading since you posted two things before i answered

[Invader_Nym]

What about your 21 Ranger/9 AA vs Car's 16 Ranger/11AA/3 Rogue ? I was talking more about that one,my quote was kinda misleading since you posted two things before i answered

21 ranger 9 AA could work; it depends on your subjective evaluation of how valuable tumble and umd are, compared to your desire for +5 arrows, and how much versatility you wish to have on your build.

I would probably choose 21 ranger 9 AA over Car's build. No disrespect to Car but his build seems a bit scattered. He has improved critical longbow at level 18, for example, and called shot at level 9, which is a really odd choice.

If I did go 16 ranger, which I wouldn't, I'd go 1-16 ranger so that I could pick up HIPS right at level 16, and I'd select my feats in a different order.

I would, however, probably go 23 ranger, 4 fighter, 3 bard, like I said earlier. You get great damage output, and you can dump UMD, tumble, and spellcraft.

P.S. You can switch from 21 ranger 9 arcane archer to 23 ranger 4 fighter 3 bard without having to go totally back to square one: if your first 21 levels are ranger, then that gives you a lot of freedom to re-level on your last 9 levels and experiment, without you having to go all the way back to square 1, but you will have to make sure you get your feats right from level 1-21.

[Cybernet21]

Well car did teh build with what i was thinking of in mind so it was that kinda scattered it a bit But i really feel like i want to have both Ranger and AA.So i'm just left with these two choices really,so i will to reflect upon either UMD and maxed Tumble or more Ranger stuff. I thank all that helped me build it,will let you know when i choose one of the two options Plus other people who might want a similar character now have a lot of insight into it

[Baron Saturday]

Comparison time? Yes. I'm assuming a final Dex of 28.

With ranger 16/AA 11/rogue 3, you're looking at a total of +14 damage to your 7 favored/studied enemies and +10 damage to everything else. You'll also have 44 AB with just a basic longbow.

With ranger 21/AA 9 and BoE, that's 2d6+16 (+23 avg) to your 9 favored enemies and +11 damage to everything else. You'll have 43 AB with a basic longbow, 45 v favored enemies. You lose UMD and 3 AC from having to CC tumble, but can actually cast ranger spells without being TOO sad when it comes to losing the mundane caster level. Your companion will be okay, and with Greater Magic Fang/Awaken scrolls/Ice or Fire berry could actually be somewhat useful.

With ranger 23/fighter 4/bard 3, that's 2d6+17 (+24 avg) to 9 favored enemies and +12 damage to everything else. 38 AB, or 40 v favored. You get to keep UMD and tumble, and again, ranger casting & companion is somewhat useful.

[Conversations With Your Car Alarm]

A couple of notes. Archer damage is not ever going to be the same as a damage focused character. If I was you I would throw that out of the window. Archers are at their best when they can dish our consistent damage from range and keep up mobility. To keep up mobility you need wands. You CAN achieve that with Cleric and Druid wands, but I don't like it personally because you loose Tumble without Rogue or Bard or Monk. Your day is ruined if a warrior can get close to you consistently. You want as much AC as possible, as much Discipline as possible, as much mobility as possible, and as many tricks as possible. AAs are really PvP oriented characters imo. They can handle PvM, but are mage deleters, and a pain in the rear for anything else aside from monks.

I see the breakdown of best builds as such:
AA11/Ranger6/Rogue13 gives Epic Dodge, UMD, Tumble, Sneak Attack damage, lots of skills. Epic Dodge is an ace in the hole when some warrior is trying to run you down. UMD is great for darkness to get them sneaks off, Haste, and all the other goodies. This build can solo some of the toughest bosses in the game. You learn how to run and shoot and you are a monster.

AA19/Bard5/Monk6 gives +20% movement, UMD, Tumble, and KD with good melee with a kama or staff. The added speed means that under Haste you are still faster thant anyone besides monks. Monks ruin archer's lives anyway so be nice to them.

Those are the two that I would personally consider playing. Of course RP wins over everything so play the character build you think fits your dude best. I would just humbly suggest something with UMD for the reasons stated above.