Taunt

[Cybernet21]

So,how much taunt do you guys recommend a paladin to have at level 30? In my build with epic skill focus on Taunt i end up with around 52,is that too much on Taunt or is it like Discipline,there isnt a "too much" for it?

[miesny_jez]

Well from my experience that is a total Overkill..

Realize this:
Your primary target for Taunt in both PvE and PvP will be Melee-based who usually totally ignore Concentration skill. The only exception to that will probably be Bards and..err Dragons?

So even with a mediorace values of Taunt skill You will be quite a successful taunter at all levels. I think if I recall correctly my Bard had 14 base skills + 10 from CH bonus +4 Gear and +8 from Song = 36 Taunt and that was in 95% cases enough for a full -6 AC debuff. And no I did not build for taunting at all those were just some free skill points I had available.

As for the Spell-wiggler types.. don't bother just smash their faces with Your "Holy Greatsword" its much more intimidating then making some obscene gestures in their face.

[Cybernet21]

Well from my experience that is a total Overkill..

Realize this:
Your primary target for Taunt in both PvE and PvP will be Melee-based who usually totally ignore Concentration skill. The only exception to that will probably be Bards and..err Dragons?

So even with a mediorace values of Taunt skill You will be quite a successful taunter at all levels. I think if I recall correctly my Bard had 14 base skills + 10 from CH bonus +4 Gear and +8 from Song = 36 Taunt and that was in 95% cases enough for a full -6 AC debuff. And no I did not build for taunting at all those were just some free skill points I had available.

As for the Spell-wiggler types.. don't bother just smash their faces with Your "Holy Greatsword" its much more intimidating then making some obscene gestures in their face.

So,what would you recommend?To get the epic skills focus out or just take a few points out of it and put it somewhere else?(the last one is the one i'm hoping for to get more skill on Ride,but another feat might be more useful)

[BegoneThoth]

Unless I had no choice but to take a skill focus I would not consider skill focus taunt. That said given that you're doing a skill roll vs a skill roll, you rolling a 1+taunt and them rolling an 18+constitution will negate a lot of your invested skill points, so I would personally go for 30+.

[Cybernet21]

Unless I had no choice but to take a skill focus I would not consider skill focus taunt. That said given that you're doing a skill roll vs a skill roll, you rolling a 1+taunt and them rolling an 18+constitution will negate a lot of your invested skill points, so I would personally go for 30+.

If i focus on Taunt above other stuff i end up in around the 50's,if i get some other stuff such as a bit more on Ride (really trying my best to get the most i can on Ride without making my build too weak )my Taunt will be on its 40's,that's with the Epic Skill Focus. So from what you guys are saying,it seems i can remain on the 40's and invest on other stuff

[miesny_jez]

I would certainly skip the Skill Focus/ESF for Taunt, that's a waste of a talent.

If You are really in need of Taunt I would raise it to 25 save the rest skill points and decide if You need more based on what You see in game.

You have Your CH modifier which should be rather nice for a Pally I would expect 2-4 and you have 7 pieces of equipment which You can easily add +2 Taunt.

Which leads You in such case with 25+4+14 = 43 Taunt, no Skill Focus and 8 skill points to spare.

Unless You are aiming to Taunt Dragons/Bosses on regular basis I doubt You would need more.

[Spaniardl]

dont you think there are at least a few mages out there with esf concentration to counter it? some taunters just want to give them some arcane spell failure

[Hunter548]

Most mages don't take ESF conc. Between 33 ranks, a ~9-10 con modifier, and gear, you can get enough to have a solid chance of your spells not being interrupted by anything but a crit.

[Spaniardl]

Well going back to Cybernets question. if mages are easily getting 50+ concentration, then he may want to take esf taunt to counter that if he wants to trigger arcane spell failure on most mages.

[BegoneThoth]

Well going back to Cybernets question. if mages are easily getting 50+ concentration, then he may want to take esf taunt to counter that if he wants to trigger arcane spell failure on most mages.

It's a lot of investment to get into a mages face, have all that taunt, and then give them 30% ACF when, realistically, they're just going to be hasteboi running away as soon as you begin to close.

If it was 100% or something, sure, but it's not, there's still a 70% chance they pop greater sanctuary or time stop or whatever even if you go so hard into taunt you can get em reliably.

Not worth it.

[OutOfChwi]

Taunting Paush and Dragons is cool too. I'd never take ESF Taunt on one of my builds as the other feats available are usually much better but hey, Id love it if someone in my party took one for the team.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

You're asking a support-based question in a forum that reviles anything but optimal solo-capable builds. You are clearly a troll. Ban please.

On a more serious note, it is not uncommon for good PvP builds to take concentration on their melee build because losing 6 AC is a 30% increase in their chance to get hit, and that loss of 6 AC stacks with the +20 cap to the attackers' AB.

So; tanky melee, 33 ranks, +8 or so con mod, +d20 roll, = 41+d20.

Which means in order to guarantee success against anyone that maxes at 33 ranks with some con gear, you need to reliably hit 62 taunt with your roll. I'd say aiming for 53 isn't unreasonable in light of the fact that you say taunt is more important to you than other things.

Very few people will agree with me. YMMV.

[dallion43]

If you plan to use taunt in pvp to reliably hit, take +10. Taunt isn't an instant action, it distance is relatively close , clers bards druids ac sorcs wizards some too many sp builds etc, skip item sps, repeating a failed taunt = 1 round of flat footed while being punched, and both of you throw d20...enough said.

If you are a WM etc, with good ab, or need it for pve simply compare alternative feats and take the better one.

[Hunter548]

Very few people will agree with me. YMMV.

Probably because you're fairly demonstrably wrong. I know fairly few melee builds that have bothered with concentration, and none of them since the subrace gift changes eliminated the ability to slap 2 int on, say, a weaponmaster. We can quibble one way or the other about how useful it is (I think you almost always have something better to take, outside of two general builds), but it being 'not uncommon' isn't exactly accurate.

As to the original question: It's probably not worth it. Anyone you can taunt and want to taunt in pvp probably has zero-ten concentration (Again, most builds not having enough skill points). Thoth outlined a decent argument for why taunting mages isn't a great idea when you can't slap further ASF on them via PDK or whatever.

Most monsters are in a similar boat with the exception of epic-area-bosses, who in my experience tend to have somewhere between 70 and 120 concentration, or high enough you'd need a bard friend and lucky rolls anyways. There's almost certainly something that's a better choice.