I want a DEX based Drow cleric because Drow are dexterous and sneaky. I was thinking of using Death and Trickery domains. Death so I can summon a shadow companion and Trickery so I can get the sneaky illusion spells and the sneaky class-type activated skill. Through RP I would like to have her become so 'in tune' with the shadow plane that she learns how to use it to HIPS.
Build style I: (25 Cleric/5 ShadowDancer)
-I am confused by what the website says in regards to shadow conjuration.
( http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Chang ... _Summoning )
-Does spell focus in illusion apply to death domain cleric's shadow summon? If so I will make sure to get it to epic spell focus.
-Will epic mummy dust apply to my Death Domain Cleric summoning? This would be cool because I don't want a mummy and it would go along with my lack of higher SD levels, which I have to sacrifice for epic Cleric spell casting. As a Death & Trickery domain cleric getting epic spell focus in illusion and epic mummy dust, it would be cool if my Death domain summon was up to par with epic ShadowDancer summon at the cost of the ability to summon an epic mummy. I would gladly give up all other summoning availability just to have the character focus her energy on this goal.
-Would spell focus in illusion help my other illusion spells (invisibility) be more effective?
I would be willing to role play it out over time if DM's would possibly approve it. She could extensively study the shadow plane IC. I'm from Amia where we had Dream Coin requests for characters. Is there a similar system?
Build style II: (22 Cleric/3 Fighter/5 ShadowDancer)
If the my 'Build Style I' will never be possible then it seems death domain is redundant due to epic mummy dust. Empowered harm and inflict wounds just isn't enough to justify this Domain choice in my opinion.
So I would consider Trickery & Travel or Trickery & War domains instead. Travel would give me some neat spells such as Haste. War would make up for this build's lack of Use Magic Device skill by giving me Cat's Grace at level 2 which would aid in my DEX build and has a good activated ability that not only would aid the Trickery activated ability, but also my DEX based melee combat.
To make up for lack of Sneak Attack with this build style I would like to use dual-wielding, divine might, divine shield, and weapon specialization in daggers or scimitar. This would obviously replace using a shield and more caster-based feats.
I would use the 3 levels of Fighter for Weapon Specialization and put all the skill points into discipline. My questions about this build strategy are:
-Would taking just 1 level of fighter early on for scimitar be possible? If it is possible to take 1 level of fighter early on I'd like to put 4th level as fighter. If I have to do 3 levels in a row still, would it screw casting up all that much to ? Cleric3>fighter1>cleric19(epic mummy dust at 21)>fighter2>sd 5 is what I think I'd like to do...
-Can l make up for lack of sneak attack with divine might, HIPS, improved knockdown, and dual wielding daggers or scimitars?
-I would consider daggers if I could not invest the needed feats for max dual-wielding.
-Will divine might be applied to both weapons while dual wielding?
-Would HIPS & invisibility with divine might to knockdown enemies be effective?
I am pretty passionate about this build for role play and I have put a lot of thought into it for this server style and 30 level cap. It has been a challenge to make a stealthy cleric because of lack of epic dodge being combined with epic spells and epic mummy dust. It's hard to pick and choose what to sacrifice with this build, but I am adamant about using cleric as my base and SD for sneakiness and RP. With sneakiness it seems best to go with a DEX build, as armor check penalty would destroy sneakiness. In my opinion, someone wearing heavy armor that is trying to sneak or be invisible just seems silly to me.
Startup Stat Ideas:
(Level 1 Cleric, No Gear & No Buffs)
Domains: Trickery (for sure), Travel or War for second
Abilities:
Str 13 - For divine might & divine shield
Dex 17 - 4th, 20th, 24th, 28th levels into this. Will use
Con 6 - buff
Wis 16 - 8th, 12th, and 16th levels will definitely go onto this.
Int 14 - should be enough to get all the skills I want
Cha 13 - for all cleric feats and domain stuff (trickery and war especially)
1 Lesser Gift; sneak (+4 to Hide, +4 Move Silently)
Background: Wild Child (+1 Hide, +1 Move silently, +1 Tumble, -2 Appraise, -2 Bluff)
Desired Skill Set: Concentration, Disable Device, Discipline, Heal, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, And Tumble will be my favored skills. If I have any extra skill points I'll consider Spot and/or listen depending on what's more effective.
Thank you for any ideas or suggestions to optimize this build idea, but keep in mind that despite it not being a power build, I want to do this for RP. RP is greater than grinding and power building to me.
Shadow Cleric Build
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Shadow Cleric Build
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
Hi there!
The death domain summon is unchanged, so it's default. Illusion focuses won't help it.
Epic mummy dust will just summon as per the undead changes found here: http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Changes
The Arelith equivalent of the dream coin system would be the epic sacrifice system, in which you have a chance to get a reward - specifically in this case you'd need the highest tier reward to request such a thing. You can find more information here: http://wiki.arelith.com/Epic_Sacrifice
Illusion focuses wouldn't increase your invisibility spells.
I wouldn't recommended dual-wielding scimitars, because you'll suffer AB penalties due to the size of the weapon in the offhand. Daggers would be better.
I wouldn't recommend a sneaking divine-might build, as you'll need to leave stealth to activate it, it's quite a short duration buff. However, the damage increase effect is applied to your character and will work on your offhand weapon as well, or any ranged weapons should you choose to use those.
As a suggestion, it might be good to take the 'healer' subclass if you use daggers. You'll lose all armour proficiency and won't be able to equip in anything other than simple weapons, but that won't matter for you. You'll gain the ability to add temporary hp to anything in combat which is a significant boost to yourself, party and summons. (More info here: http://wiki.arelith.com/Cleric#Healer )
I hope that helps a little!
The death domain summon is unchanged, so it's default. Illusion focuses won't help it.
Epic mummy dust will just summon as per the undead changes found here: http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Changes
The Arelith equivalent of the dream coin system would be the epic sacrifice system, in which you have a chance to get a reward - specifically in this case you'd need the highest tier reward to request such a thing. You can find more information here: http://wiki.arelith.com/Epic_Sacrifice
Illusion focuses wouldn't increase your invisibility spells.
I wouldn't recommended dual-wielding scimitars, because you'll suffer AB penalties due to the size of the weapon in the offhand. Daggers would be better.
I wouldn't recommend a sneaking divine-might build, as you'll need to leave stealth to activate it, it's quite a short duration buff. However, the damage increase effect is applied to your character and will work on your offhand weapon as well, or any ranged weapons should you choose to use those.
As a suggestion, it might be good to take the 'healer' subclass if you use daggers. You'll lose all armour proficiency and won't be able to equip in anything other than simple weapons, but that won't matter for you. You'll gain the ability to add temporary hp to anything in combat which is a significant boost to yourself, party and summons. (More info here: http://wiki.arelith.com/Cleric#Healer )
I hope that helps a little!
Thankfully this team is no longer being used.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Sockss#5567 for nwn mechanics questions.
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
On Arelith you must take a minimum of 3 levels in any given class, and to enforce this you must take the minimum 3 levels consecutively. Personally, I wouldn't recommend dual wielding on a cleric as clerics do not have many feats to spare, and you lose that delicious shield AC that magic vestment gives. That's a personal preference though.
As for Mummy Dust, it animates tiers of undead and gives you three summons. The summon stream can be changed from mummy to vampire. I think there was a ghost stream to be implemented in the future sometime, but I could be mistaken. There is no shadow stream. A link to summoning changes overall.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Chang ... _Summoning
Edit: If you're dead set on a dexterity based cleric, go with a finessible weapon and take weapon finesse as a feat. (Dagger, Rapier, Handaxe, Kukri, Whip, Mace, Sickle, Kama, unarmed, probably forgetting one).
As for Mummy Dust, it animates tiers of undead and gives you three summons. The summon stream can be changed from mummy to vampire. I think there was a ghost stream to be implemented in the future sometime, but I could be mistaken. There is no shadow stream. A link to summoning changes overall.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Chang ... _Summoning
Edit: If you're dead set on a dexterity based cleric, go with a finessible weapon and take weapon finesse as a feat. (Dagger, Rapier, Handaxe, Kukri, Whip, Mace, Sickle, Kama, unarmed, probably forgetting one).
Current
Ayiesha Dahyarif
Ilphaeryl Xun'viir
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
Dex then.
But, same as above.
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Part 2
Trickery & Travel is the way to go, you can get +12 dex from items and dex potion. Cler Dex build HIPS usually means => 8 Cha => War ability trashed; anyway it is a ONE time buff.
Never take 3 fighter lvls, always take 4 due to +2 vs +6 damage. (WS vs EWS).
1. Is mummy dust a definite req? Low epic caster lvls lead to weak summons overall.
2. Considering above statement I will probably recommend 21 cler/5 SD/ 4 Monk, finessed quarterstaff, No divine M/S, 8 cha, etc. Is monk an option for you?
Basically it says the shadow stats are lacking. Death domain shadow stats are lacking as well. You will have the shadow from SD for RP. Weak at SD 5, but you will have it. Imho.-I am confused by what the website says in regards to shadow conjuration.
( http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Chang ... _Summoning )
It shouldn't? It isnt a "school spell", but I can't confirm. Regardless-Does spell focus in illusion apply to death domain cleric's shadow summon? If so I will make sure to get it to epic spell focus.
kills any need in confirming that.Shadows gain bonus AB equivalent to the caster's prime attribute bonus (e.g. a wizard with 20 intelligence would summon a shadow with an additional +5 AB)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10357-Will epic mummy dust apply to my Death Domain Cleric summoning?
But, same as above.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Feat_changes#Feat_changesWould spell focus in illusion help my other illusion spells (invisibility) be more effective?
----------
Part 2
Trickery & Travel is the way to go, you can get +12 dex from items and dex potion. Cler Dex build HIPS usually means => 8 Cha => War ability trashed; anyway it is a ONE time buff.
Never take 3 fighter lvls, always take 4 due to +2 vs +6 damage. (WS vs EWS).
I see. Well, before we go into details on how to achieve that;but I am adamant about using cleric as my base and SD for sneakiness and RP
1. Is mummy dust a definite req? Low epic caster lvls lead to weak summons overall.
2. Considering above statement I will probably recommend 21 cler/5 SD/ 4 Monk, finessed quarterstaff, No divine M/S, 8 cha, etc. Is monk an option for you?
Last edited by dallion43 on Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
If you are determined to dual-wield, you could consider taking Ranger instead of Fighter. It’s still a Full BAB class but you get Dual-Wield as a bonus feat at level one, still have Discipline as a class skill, and gives you Hide and Move Silently as skill options when leveling up. IF you choose this route I would recommend more than the proposed 3 levels to get some additional benefits of the class. Additionally, having Ranger would give you access to Ranger Runic Studded Leather, which is a great bonus.
Furthermore, if you can afford the feat, you can pick up Exotic Weapons to get Katanas which are considered light weapons on Arelith meaning they can be dual-wielded with fewer penalties.
With this knowledge in mind, if it were me I would run something like 16 Cleric/9 Ranger/5 Shadow Dancer. I don’t know exactly the type of RP you are going for, but a stealthy, dual-wielding Cleric doesn’t really seem like one to cast a lot of spells besides the buff spells. For that reason i didn’t suggest more Cleric levels. However, you can take Fighter levels and get the necessary dual-wield feats in fewer levels than you can with Ranger, so the choice is up to you. If Improved Two-Weapon Fighting isn’t that important to you, then swapping Ranger out for Fighter in your Build Style II would work out, but you would lose a feat. Personally I think all the other things you get makes up for it but you can decide that for yourself.
Also, take my advice with a grain of salt because there are others here that are more knowledgeable than I.
Furthermore, if you can afford the feat, you can pick up Exotic Weapons to get Katanas which are considered light weapons on Arelith meaning they can be dual-wielded with fewer penalties.
With this knowledge in mind, if it were me I would run something like 16 Cleric/9 Ranger/5 Shadow Dancer. I don’t know exactly the type of RP you are going for, but a stealthy, dual-wielding Cleric doesn’t really seem like one to cast a lot of spells besides the buff spells. For that reason i didn’t suggest more Cleric levels. However, you can take Fighter levels and get the necessary dual-wield feats in fewer levels than you can with Ranger, so the choice is up to you. If Improved Two-Weapon Fighting isn’t that important to you, then swapping Ranger out for Fighter in your Build Style II would work out, but you would lose a feat. Personally I think all the other things you get makes up for it but you can decide that for yourself.
Also, take my advice with a grain of salt because there are others here that are more knowledgeable than I.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Shadow Cleric Build
That much ranger and shadowdancer you might as well drop cleric entirely.
OP you're going to run into problems for one thing: You're trying to do several feat-and-stat intensive things at once- divine might/shield is 3 feats and 13 in two stats. Cleric casting is as many feats as you want to make it any good and 19 in wisdom. Dual wielding on a dexer is 4 feats and 15 dexterity. Being in melee combat is 2 feats (improved expertise) if you want to live, and a decent amount of constitution. Shadowdancing is 13 dex and two feats.
What I'd suggest? Pick one. MAYBE two. Narrow down what you actually, really, really, want to do out of the list of- Dual wielding, Cleric casting, melee combat, shadowdancer, divine might/shield. That way you'll be at least kind of good in one or two things, and not terrible in several.
OP you're going to run into problems for one thing: You're trying to do several feat-and-stat intensive things at once- divine might/shield is 3 feats and 13 in two stats. Cleric casting is as many feats as you want to make it any good and 19 in wisdom. Dual wielding on a dexer is 4 feats and 15 dexterity. Being in melee combat is 2 feats (improved expertise) if you want to live, and a decent amount of constitution. Shadowdancing is 13 dex and two feats.
What I'd suggest? Pick one. MAYBE two. Narrow down what you actually, really, really, want to do out of the list of- Dual wielding, Cleric casting, melee combat, shadowdancer, divine might/shield. That way you'll be at least kind of good in one or two things, and not terrible in several.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I was planning to cast improved invisibility regularly. If I am attacking I would pop divine might (and haste if Trickery/Travel) and remain 50% concealed, HIPS, hit with improved knockdown, hit fast with dual-wield daggers that are enchanted and buffed. I consider divine might to be my sneak attack damage. If I fail to kill the enemy I will use HIPS again and attack OR hide, cut my losses and run. Summons could be cast to distract while running or beforehand to attack while enemy is distracted.
The reason I was thinking epic mummy dust could apply to death domain's shadow summon is because of what it said about shadow conjuration below the undead summoning changes.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Chang ... _Summoning
I know shadow conjuration is arcane, but the whole idea behind a cleric is they are given magic powers from their deity which overrides the arcane spell casting aspect, making it a divine endeavor. Arelith does not enforce deity specific domains so from what the wiki page says I can take death and trickery and worship Lolth if I want to (Totally not a Lolthite though ;D ). Right?
So I would argue that death domain's shadow summon is divine, and because shadows are considered an undead summon, epic mummy dust should apply to them as well. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Death_domain
I would like the epic ShadowDancer shadow summon for my sneaky drow cleric build and would gladly take 1 instead of multiples... I would role play her obsession with darkness and shadows, give up all other summoning spells, AND take death as a domain instead of War. Empowered harm and inflict wounds is only good if I am a summoner, which I would love to be. But the shadow that comes with it is useless, making that domain lacking all together in my opinion. If I was going for the epic mummy dust build I would get epic necromancy spell focus and take Evil domain instead. This character isn't really interested in raising undead, but summoning shadows. And since they improved Shadowdancer summon and the necromancy summon, I don't see why this wouldn't apply to death domain clerics. Cleric is a very diverse class and that's why it is my favorite.
This desired build wouldn't be overpowered because I would only have 1 summoned creature, and I wouldn't be using heavy armor and a shield on top of it. It seems totally fare to me. It's not like a wizard couldn't dispel me, hold me in place, then annihilate me still. They would still be a superior summoner, but I would be more of a support class having the ability to scout, pick locks, and disable traps. With literally 1 more level, I could go 21 cleric/10 SD and essentially get what I want. I'm a new player on Arelith though so what I want doesn't really matter haha. So...
---------------------------------- Since this is not how Arelith seems to work ----------------------------------
It seems I should ditch summoning as a main focus and go with Trickery and Travel domains. Which are actually both part of my character's chosen deity. It sucks because a fun part of my desired build is shadow summoning which she won't be able to do well with only 5 levels in Shadowdancer. I was hoping to make up for that with Death domain and Use Magic Device instead of War domain. Anyways...
I did consider Ranger instead of fighter for dual-wielding purposes, but isn't weapon specialization a Fighter feat?
And you said that I should take 4 levels of fighter instead. That would make a lot more sense because I want weapon specialization and could get it if I went Cleric 21>fighter 4>SD 5
SD would be entirely for HIPS and RP. Would it be better to go Cleric 21>SD 5>Fighter 4 instead? Or could she manage the last 4 levels without HIPS and just rely on hide, move silently, and invisibility spells?
The reason I want at least 21 levels in Cleric is because without it, all her buffs would constantly be dispelled and no amount of HIPS, invisibility, and rebuffing is going to fix that.
She would have 19 base Wisdom by level 16. I want to reiterate that the character starting stats and ability point progression would be:
"Abilities:
Str 13 - For divine might & divine shield
Dex 17 - 4th, 20th, 24th, 28th levels into this. Will use
Con 6 - buff
Wis 16 - 8th, 12th, and 16th levels will definitely go onto this.
Int 14 - should be enough to get all the skills I want
Cha 13 - for all cleric feats and domain stuff (trickery and war especially)
1 Lesser Gift; sneak (+4 to Hide, +4 Move Silently)
Background: Wild Child (+1 Hide, +1 Move silently, +1 Tumble, -2 Appraise, -2 Bluff)
Desired Skill Set: Concentration, Disable Device, Discipline, Heal, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, And Tumble will be my favored skills. If I have any extra skill points I'll consider Spot and/or listen depending on what's more effective."
And the only thing that worries me about the above stats is 6 constitution. But since I am basically playing the character as a rogue that casts spells, 6 hp/level and high dex isn't bad. I'm just worried such low Con may have other effects I am unaware of. Kind of like how my Wizard can drink twice as much as my first try at this build. My cleric died of alcohol poisoning. My wizard just keeps going lol...
The only thing that would make me give up this build idea is Arcane Trickster availability. Then I could probably have the spells I want, including shadow conjuration, and just give up cleric all together because I would have sneak attack. Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 20/Shadow Dancer 5 would probably fit what I want, but mind you this is Drow society where priestess's are highly respected, even though I'm playing a female Vhaeraunite... Yes female... They reproduce somehow, right? Lol...
Thanks everyone!
The reason I was thinking epic mummy dust could apply to death domain's shadow summon is because of what it said about shadow conjuration below the undead summoning changes.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Summoning_Chang ... _Summoning
I know shadow conjuration is arcane, but the whole idea behind a cleric is they are given magic powers from their deity which overrides the arcane spell casting aspect, making it a divine endeavor. Arelith does not enforce deity specific domains so from what the wiki page says I can take death and trickery and worship Lolth if I want to (Totally not a Lolthite though ;D ). Right?
So I would argue that death domain's shadow summon is divine, and because shadows are considered an undead summon, epic mummy dust should apply to them as well. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Death_domain
I would like the epic ShadowDancer shadow summon for my sneaky drow cleric build and would gladly take 1 instead of multiples... I would role play her obsession with darkness and shadows, give up all other summoning spells, AND take death as a domain instead of War. Empowered harm and inflict wounds is only good if I am a summoner, which I would love to be. But the shadow that comes with it is useless, making that domain lacking all together in my opinion. If I was going for the epic mummy dust build I would get epic necromancy spell focus and take Evil domain instead. This character isn't really interested in raising undead, but summoning shadows. And since they improved Shadowdancer summon and the necromancy summon, I don't see why this wouldn't apply to death domain clerics. Cleric is a very diverse class and that's why it is my favorite.
This desired build wouldn't be overpowered because I would only have 1 summoned creature, and I wouldn't be using heavy armor and a shield on top of it. It seems totally fare to me. It's not like a wizard couldn't dispel me, hold me in place, then annihilate me still. They would still be a superior summoner, but I would be more of a support class having the ability to scout, pick locks, and disable traps. With literally 1 more level, I could go 21 cleric/10 SD and essentially get what I want. I'm a new player on Arelith though so what I want doesn't really matter haha. So...
---------------------------------- Since this is not how Arelith seems to work ----------------------------------
It seems I should ditch summoning as a main focus and go with Trickery and Travel domains. Which are actually both part of my character's chosen deity. It sucks because a fun part of my desired build is shadow summoning which she won't be able to do well with only 5 levels in Shadowdancer. I was hoping to make up for that with Death domain and Use Magic Device instead of War domain. Anyways...
I did consider Ranger instead of fighter for dual-wielding purposes, but isn't weapon specialization a Fighter feat?
And you said that I should take 4 levels of fighter instead. That would make a lot more sense because I want weapon specialization and could get it if I went Cleric 21>fighter 4>SD 5
SD would be entirely for HIPS and RP. Would it be better to go Cleric 21>SD 5>Fighter 4 instead? Or could she manage the last 4 levels without HIPS and just rely on hide, move silently, and invisibility spells?
The reason I want at least 21 levels in Cleric is because without it, all her buffs would constantly be dispelled and no amount of HIPS, invisibility, and rebuffing is going to fix that.
She would have 19 base Wisdom by level 16. I want to reiterate that the character starting stats and ability point progression would be:
"Abilities:
Str 13 - For divine might & divine shield
Dex 17 - 4th, 20th, 24th, 28th levels into this. Will use
Con 6 - buff
Wis 16 - 8th, 12th, and 16th levels will definitely go onto this.
Int 14 - should be enough to get all the skills I want
Cha 13 - for all cleric feats and domain stuff (trickery and war especially)
1 Lesser Gift; sneak (+4 to Hide, +4 Move Silently)
Background: Wild Child (+1 Hide, +1 Move silently, +1 Tumble, -2 Appraise, -2 Bluff)
Desired Skill Set: Concentration, Disable Device, Discipline, Heal, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, And Tumble will be my favored skills. If I have any extra skill points I'll consider Spot and/or listen depending on what's more effective."
And the only thing that worries me about the above stats is 6 constitution. But since I am basically playing the character as a rogue that casts spells, 6 hp/level and high dex isn't bad. I'm just worried such low Con may have other effects I am unaware of. Kind of like how my Wizard can drink twice as much as my first try at this build. My cleric died of alcohol poisoning. My wizard just keeps going lol...
The only thing that would make me give up this build idea is Arcane Trickster availability. Then I could probably have the spells I want, including shadow conjuration, and just give up cleric all together because I would have sneak attack. Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 20/Shadow Dancer 5 would probably fit what I want, but mind you this is Drow society where priestess's are highly respected, even though I'm playing a female Vhaeraunite... Yes female... They reproduce somehow, right? Lol...
Thanks everyone!
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I just noticed a flaw in the given information of my own. If I didn't take death domain, I would take trickery and travel domains. So I would have to add use magic devices to my skill set for cat's grace. Haste doesn't last long so I'd rather have that extended from my spell list and use scrolls or wands for cat's grace. The war domain is cool and all, but doesn't get that great until later levels and I have to dump some CHA to focus more so on DEX and WIS. Travel domain also fits a chaotic neutral Vhaeraunite cleric better RP wise.
I would also like to point out that shadows and Vhaeraun go hand-in-hand. House Jaelre for example is a Vhaeraunite house that is said to have descended from shadow dragons.
I would also like to point out that shadows and Vhaeraun go hand-in-hand. House Jaelre for example is a Vhaeraunite house that is said to have descended from shadow dragons.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
This is a RP server and I am a strong believer in RP over power building and grinding. I love mathematics and physics in the real world. I play a fantasy game to escape that part of myself and the world around me lol... So...
I want so strongly to make this build have the ability to summon shadows for RP, that I am just going to play it as a Trickery/Death cleric. I will still go for epic necromancy, epic mummy dust, and empower spell to improve my death domain's ability to, I guess, heal my summons.
Maybe if I RP it well they will eventually just allow me to swap my shadow summon for the Shadowdancer model or apply epic mummy dust to my undead shadow, like they did for shadow conjuration which is literally what I'm doing, but with divine means instead of arcane. Either way I feel justified in that I am a sneaky cleric and eventually pursue shadowdancer levels because of the character's interest in the shadow plane. Death domain summons a shadow so clearly she's into the shadow plane. And since she spent so much time as a priestess and the shadow plane was just a personal interest, she never was able to dedicate too much time to becoming an "epic" shadowdancer because of her service to her deity and faction as a priestess.
I don't want to go with healer subclass because she will be using medium armor. She may end up ditching armor when she's in the level 20's, but she needs to wear chain until she can use scrolls of cat's grace, then swap to leather. She will also use a shield & rapier until I hit my fighter levels and dual-wield daggers with weapon focus & specialization; adding divine might to that will be fun.
She needs to put levels 8, 12, and 16 into wisdom so she can be a better caster, ending with 19 base wisdom at level 16.
So as it stands, I am doing Death/Trickery Cleric 21> Fighter 4> SD 5. She likes her shadows as much as I do so you will find I agree with myself IC and OOC
I will post the official 1-30 sheet later. Any suggestions are still of interest, but this is my final decision for her foundation. RP over power building 100%. She won't be into the level 20's for some time so I am still all ears. (eyes...)
I want so strongly to make this build have the ability to summon shadows for RP, that I am just going to play it as a Trickery/Death cleric. I will still go for epic necromancy, epic mummy dust, and empower spell to improve my death domain's ability to, I guess, heal my summons.
Maybe if I RP it well they will eventually just allow me to swap my shadow summon for the Shadowdancer model or apply epic mummy dust to my undead shadow, like they did for shadow conjuration which is literally what I'm doing, but with divine means instead of arcane. Either way I feel justified in that I am a sneaky cleric and eventually pursue shadowdancer levels because of the character's interest in the shadow plane. Death domain summons a shadow so clearly she's into the shadow plane. And since she spent so much time as a priestess and the shadow plane was just a personal interest, she never was able to dedicate too much time to becoming an "epic" shadowdancer because of her service to her deity and faction as a priestess.
I don't want to go with healer subclass because she will be using medium armor. She may end up ditching armor when she's in the level 20's, but she needs to wear chain until she can use scrolls of cat's grace, then swap to leather. She will also use a shield & rapier until I hit my fighter levels and dual-wield daggers with weapon focus & specialization; adding divine might to that will be fun.
She needs to put levels 8, 12, and 16 into wisdom so she can be a better caster, ending with 19 base wisdom at level 16.
So as it stands, I am doing Death/Trickery Cleric 21> Fighter 4> SD 5. She likes her shadows as much as I do so you will find I agree with myself IC and OOC
I will post the official 1-30 sheet later. Any suggestions are still of interest, but this is my final decision for her foundation. RP over power building 100%. She won't be into the level 20's for some time so I am still all ears. (eyes...)
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
The idea of "rp builds" vs "power builds" is a false dichotomy, let me just say that. You can have a well-built character mechanically and also be an exceptional roleplayer.
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
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BegoneThoth
- Posts: 1589
- Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:20 am
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I suppose I just don't see the point in asking for a build and then eschewing the advice in favor of 'rp building.'
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Re: Shadow Cleric Build
*flips the table in a fury!*
Characters: all poor babies suffering from neglect
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
*smashes the red anxiety button!*
Characters: all poor babies suffering from neglect
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I didn't disregard or try to insult anyone. Maybe you are taking what i said too personally? Yes i have well built characters too that are also fun to play. What i was saying is that I've rebuilt this character 7 times now and i have to make a decision based on what i want for rp verses what i want for build mechanics. I didn't mean to insult anyone or make anyone's suggestions sound bad. I actually appreciate all your suggestions and they made me think and have helped to shape this build. Her backstory is involved with the shadow plane so i really want to summon shadows. I'm also not trying to insult the mechanics of the server. Ive actually read other posts of people talking about similar things with death domain and shadow summons (i think it was this forum). Sorry if you guys took it that way. I'm a nerd. I like fantasy. But sometimes i over obseds over mechanical perfection and lose site of the fact that im playing a game to have fun! 
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
Also this is my build desire. Yes, a role play build. Just like in real life, you cannot always get what you want. Her backstory, the role play she may get involved in (talking over grinding) is more important to me than a build that is powerful. Maybe you got offended by the word over powered? I re read everything i said and i didn't insult anyone. I am pointing out the facts. I'm a new player to Arelith, I have no established reputation, so my opinions mean little. Arelith owes me nothing and has been the best server i have ever tried. I want a build based on desire, i played with a few ideas, asked for some opinions of others, made a decision based on the desire of a build i want, and you're offended why? Lol... Seriously. Don't take it as a personal insult.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
For the record, I didn’t feel insulted or disregarded.
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Baron Saturday
- Posts: 2364
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:34 am
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
Nor do I. "RP over power building 100%" is a statement of OP's priorities, not a suggestion that one is better than the other or that the two are mutually exclusive.
That said, Drow4d20, you've got to understand that a lot of people here have, in the past, had their ability to roleplay well called into question for no other reason than that they create powerful characters. It's a bit of a sensitive spot for some!
Now, let's get back to obsessing over mechanics, eh?
Has anyone looked into the skill points of this build? CCing hide/ms/tumble to meet the prereqs for SD is gonna take, what, 46 points? And that's on top of two feats into dodge & mobility.
It's a shame that the ghost stream of undead summoning seems to have fallen by the wayside. Aesthetically, that would be a bit of a better fit without needing to awkwardly shoehorn classes together.
What about cleric/rogue/fighter and just wand summoning shadows? They won't be super effective, but that doesn't seem to be the point anyhow. And then you'd have UMD for grace wands, too.
That said, Drow4d20, you've got to understand that a lot of people here have, in the past, had their ability to roleplay well called into question for no other reason than that they create powerful characters. It's a bit of a sensitive spot for some!
Now, let's get back to obsessing over mechanics, eh?
Has anyone looked into the skill points of this build? CCing hide/ms/tumble to meet the prereqs for SD is gonna take, what, 46 points? And that's on top of two feats into dodge & mobility.
It's a shame that the ghost stream of undead summoning seems to have fallen by the wayside. Aesthetically, that would be a bit of a better fit without needing to awkwardly shoehorn classes together.
What about cleric/rogue/fighter and just wand summoning shadows? They won't be super effective, but that doesn't seem to be the point anyhow. And then you'd have UMD for grace wands, too.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I didn't think you insulted anyone either, but you have to remember that this is builds and mechanics forum. You'll get builds and mechanics advice not rp advice.
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One Two Three Five
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:09 am
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I'm going to do one last post here: the build as stated wont work. You don't have enough feats to dual wield, finesse, divine might, shadowdance, and necro focus pre-epic, and if you start taking those in epic you're going to shoot yourself even further in the foot than you already are with 6 con. You almost certainly wont enjoy this build, 'rp build' or not, because the things you want the character to be capable of in rp? It will not be capable of those things- and the things that it is capable of will take a long while. Dual wielding feats will be a while to get. Shadowdancer will take until level 18 or so, so no stealth till then. Mummy dust will be a long while (near 30) if you take fighter and shadowdancer before you take 21 cleric.
The advice I put here earlier (and some I deleted after realizing it was falling on deaf ears) wasn't about powerbuilding, but about building a character that is mechanically possible with the least amount of headache.
For instance, on the headache front: You almost certainly wont have room for blind sight or knockdown, which is going to hurt real bad on a meleer. But. If you think you can manage, and you're good to live with what you've got for... a long, long while? Go for it. Don't let me stop you.
The advice I put here earlier (and some I deleted after realizing it was falling on deaf ears) wasn't about powerbuilding, but about building a character that is mechanically possible with the least amount of headache.
For instance, on the headache front: You almost certainly wont have room for blind sight or knockdown, which is going to hurt real bad on a meleer. But. If you think you can manage, and you're good to live with what you've got for... a long, long while? Go for it. Don't let me stop you.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
There are a lot of experienced builders here who are also great roleplayers. People aren't offended by your desire for an "RP build," and you certainly didn't insult anyone; they're just familiar with the server mechanics and see the build you want as a little bit masochistic. This naturally makes them cringe, if only out of sympathy for what you're about to put yourself through...
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
Cler has standard ele summoning. You can hide behind those in PvE. take Trickery and Travel.It seems I should ditch summoning as a main focus and go with Trickery and Travel domains.
You can summon shadow, that you need for RP. For the shadow to have other meaning you need many SD lvls, means cler has to go.It sucks because a fun part of my desired build is shadow summoning which she won't be able to do well with only 5 levels in Shadowdancer.
You need to max skills, so regardless in case of 5 SD HIPS will come last. Unless 6 SD.Would it be better to go Cleric 21>SD 5>Fighter 4 instead?
Anything below 24 cler will meet the same fate, even with arcane def.The reason I want at least 21 levels in Cleric is because without it, all her buffs would constantly be dispelled
You don't need DS and DM as a sneaker. If someone started hitting you DS won't help. DM are relatively short and causing crazy MAD problem. (problematic Stats spread).Str 13 - For divine might & divine shield
Dex 17 - 4th, 20th, 24th, 28th levels into this. Will use
Con 6 - buff
Wis 16 - 8th, 12th, and 16th levels will definitely go onto this.
Int 14 - should be enough to get all the skills I want
Cha 13 - for all cleric feats and domain stuff (trickery and war especially)
I recommend going 8 Cha after the drow melee gift.
Your beginning stats should look around: 10str/16dex/14con/16wiz/16int/8cha after drow and drow melee gift.
You need at least 16 int due to cleric very low per lvl skill amount since MS and hide are maxed.
6 con is suicide. HIPS has CD, mobs often see throw invis. Unless you play very often with PC with guard activated.
Gift of Melee-magthere +2 CON, -2 CHA. Drow only1 Lesser Gift; sneak (+4 to Hide, +4 Move Silently)
Concentration, Discipline, Heal, Hide, Move Silently, Tumble is already one more then 2 per cler lvl + 3 from 16 int. Raise Concentration just enough to use defensive spell casting. You have true seeing spell, no spot or listen is needed. SD don't have UMD -(.Desired Skill Set: Concentration, Disable Device, Discipline, Heal, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, And Tumble will be my favored skills. If I have any extra skill points I'll consider Spot and/or listen depending on what's more effective."
Potions, not to mention without MAD you will have enough dex on items.cat's grace
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Hmm, I missed it before I started to respond... -).I want so strongly to make this build have the ability to summon shadows for RP, that I am just going to play it as a Trickery/Death cleric. I will still go for epic necromancy, epic mummy dust, and empower spell to improve my death domain's ability to, I guess, heal my summons.
That doesn't change the above much trough.
I still think you should go for 21 cler/4 monk/ 5 SD with kamas. You will get some synergy while keeping all your RP reqs. Don't forget that for SD you need: Skills: Hide 10, Move Silently 8, Tumble 5 meaning 3 monks prior to SD will allow to save the needed SPs.
When you have that and if you still need some find tuning advise while taking into consideration your RP reqs, post here ).I will post the official 1-30 sheet later. Any suggestions are still of interest, but this is my final decision for her foundation. RP over power building 100%. She won't be into the level 20's for some time so I am still all ears. (eyes...)
Last edited by dallion43 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I wanted the most optimal build I could to match her backstory and what I wanted to do with the character. Sorry. Can this post be bombed? Lol...
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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High Primate
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:25 pm
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
I played a cleric of Vhaeraun. He was a strength-based 23/4/3 battlecleric wearing full plate with trickery and travel domains, both of which Vhaeraun gets in official lore, and single wielding a rapier (this was before moonblades). It's also worth noting that in FR lore, some of Vhaeraun's priests wear heavy armor despite Vhaeraun's official edict not to. But do what you're comfortable with. Thematically, I stocked his spellbook with extended invisibilities and put some ranks in thief skills, although a relative lack of skill points for clerics obviously placed a limitation on that. He facilitated some notorious quarter ransackings, though. Trickery domain and extend spell are also important if you don't want people scrying on you and learning your character's faith. (I get that this is supposed to be FOIG information, but can I just say it anyway in the interest of helping this guy? The cat's been out of the bag for a long time, anyway.)
RP-wise, a moonblade might be a fitting weapon for a Vhaeraunite, since V himself wields both a shortsword and a longsword, and going strength rather than dex-based would allow you to get a lot more out of that. A moonblade also fits the theme of Vhaeraunites who want to ally with evil surface elves, as you would need a surface elf to forge it for you. Ergo, you have an RP reason to make overtures to them.
Another thing you might do, if you go this route, is take epic focuses in divination. You lose a bit of mechanical strength but are still quite viable, and scrying allows you to spy on people, which is thematically fitting for a deity that promotes espionage. Epic spell focus in illusion is another option, though project image is kind of meh at the moment.
Dex-based clerics just aren't feasible, unless and until some tweak is made or a new class/path is introduced, and the build you're proposing is trying to do too many things; as a result it will be bad at all of them.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe clerics on Arelith must match their deity's alignment. I'm pretty sure this means you'll need to be Chaotic Evil if you play a cleric of Vhaeraun.
You might also consider a standard strength/charisma battlecleric that uses DM and DS. The investment in Charisma will make Trickery Domain Powers more useful. Again, I imagine this would be appealing to you from an RP perspective.
Just a few thoughts on how to reconcile RP with mechanical power. Hope they are helpful!
RP-wise, a moonblade might be a fitting weapon for a Vhaeraunite, since V himself wields both a shortsword and a longsword, and going strength rather than dex-based would allow you to get a lot more out of that. A moonblade also fits the theme of Vhaeraunites who want to ally with evil surface elves, as you would need a surface elf to forge it for you. Ergo, you have an RP reason to make overtures to them.
Another thing you might do, if you go this route, is take epic focuses in divination. You lose a bit of mechanical strength but are still quite viable, and scrying allows you to spy on people, which is thematically fitting for a deity that promotes espionage. Epic spell focus in illusion is another option, though project image is kind of meh at the moment.
Dex-based clerics just aren't feasible, unless and until some tweak is made or a new class/path is introduced, and the build you're proposing is trying to do too many things; as a result it will be bad at all of them.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe clerics on Arelith must match their deity's alignment. I'm pretty sure this means you'll need to be Chaotic Evil if you play a cleric of Vhaeraun.
You might also consider a standard strength/charisma battlecleric that uses DM and DS. The investment in Charisma will make Trickery Domain Powers more useful. Again, I imagine this would be appealing to you from an RP perspective.
Just a few thoughts on how to reconcile RP with mechanical power. Hope they are helpful!
Re: Shadow Cleric Build
Dude, thank you! I just want to justify my build with a balance of logic and role play pertaining to her backstory. They also do not enforce domains which made my head explode lmao... I would have just been like "Okay Travel/Trickery. Easy. NP" but now I'm like "well shadows are cool, sneaking around is cool, Vhaeraun is so cool, but if I'm kind of a rogue and oh trickery will increase these skills so I could probably put some SPs here, maybe 1 here, and oh if I go lawful neutral I could take a few monk levels, woah what's a healer subclass!?..." and after 3 days I realize I've fallen into some sort of fractal equation of a build lmao...
Another player messaged me an inspiring cleric/monk/SD build progression that caused me to make one of my own to match healer subclass with Death/war domain. I'll post it in separate thread I think because this one is kind of all over the place because my head was all over the place with this diverse support build.
Another player messaged me an inspiring cleric/monk/SD build progression that caused me to make one of my own to match healer subclass with Death/war domain. I'll post it in separate thread I think because this one is kind of all over the place because my head was all over the place with this diverse support build.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."