Ranger Build

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taoofbalance
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Ranger Build

Post by taoofbalance » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:20 am

I'm looking at making a possible Human Ranger Build. At least 21 levels of Ranger. With the Rangers Runic Studded Leather being a thing now, I was debating on making him a STR based Ranger and use the Two-Handed Sword. Because it looks awesome and looks are everything. Or... I would go with a vastly subpar Ranger using a Long-sword in the main hand and Short-sword in the off hand because to me, that's the most classic of Ranger weapon combos.

Does the Runic leather make the leveling process worth it? I have read on the Forums that STR based Rangers suffer heavily from lack of AC.

I haven' worked out the exacts of the build, but I would be looking at something like; 21 Ranger, 4 Fighter, 5 Rogue. From what I gather it is a pretty common build.

Thoughts, suggestions, comments?

Thanks!
"Typical larval god fetus..."-Patrick Rothfuss.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:53 am

If you HAVE to dual-wield with a ranger, I would do two short swords, so you're at least not completely shooting yourself in the foot.

The most successful str-ranger I ran into used full plate/tower shield until they were able to get the ranger tunic.

If you do only take 21 ranger, grab Arcane Def: Abj. Really, probably a good idea to grab it regardless.
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Scurvy Cur
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Scurvy Cur » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:38 pm

Only go AD: abj if you have the two feats to throw at it; it's not terribly worthwhile though, imo.

None of the buffs you cast besides cat's grace and freedom are both combat relevant and dispellable, and your wands will be max CL of 17 anyhow, which will be dispelled regardless of whether or not you have Arcane Defense: abj or not.

I'd skip.

I likewise would not go short swords on a strength ranger.

You've got two primarily viable choices: Kukris, for a larger crit range and the ability to use a shield when you need AC, or double weapon for the ability to pick up +2 AB while dual wielding.

STR ranger life is rough pre runic leather, but that armor about single-handedly fixes the majority of the class's AC problems. Your AC will never be stellar, but it will be survivable, especially if you're willing to drop back into improved expertise as needed.


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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:06 pm

Scurvy Cur wrote:Only go AD: abj if you have the two feats to throw at it; it's not terribly worthwhile though, imo.

None of the buffs you cast besides cat's grace and freedom are both combat relevant and dispellable, and your wands will be max CL of 17 anyhow, which will be dispelled regardless of whether or not you have Arcane Defense: abj or not.
I was under the impression that wands use either your mundane CL (if you're not casting from a spellbook) or caster class CL (if you are) for the purpose of resisting dispels. Am I mistaken about this? And SF: Abj isn't exactly a throwaway feat, even if you think AD: Abj is.

Dual short swords I suggested as an alternative to the longsword/short sword combo, since it sounded like taoofbalance was looking for a more traditionally ranger-y vibe rather than absolute mechanical optimization. Either way, I would suggest having a tower shield on hand for when you really need it.

Honestly, if it were me? I might chuck convention out the window and try something crazy like 26 ranger/4 rogue (17/3 pre-epic) with the last rogue level at 27 or 30. You'd have +5 blade thirst, and greater magic fang would give your companion +9 AB & damage, 9/+9 DR, and +9 AC. Companion would also have either +8 STR/+4 AC or +8 DEX/+4 damage from the passive ranger level bonus.

It isn't traditional or even very optimal, but it might be fun and different!
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Zavandar
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Zavandar » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:21 pm

You can try this if you want to make maximum use of animal empathy:
Image
48 AB and ~57 AC w/ improved expertise.
Intelligence is too important

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Scurvy Cur
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Scurvy Cur » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:06 am

Baron Saturday wrote:
Scurvy Cur wrote:Only go AD: abj if you have the two feats to throw at it; it's not terribly worthwhile though, imo.

None of the buffs you cast besides cat's grace and freedom are both combat relevant and dispellable, and your wands will be max CL of 17 anyhow, which will be dispelled regardless of whether or not you have Arcane Defense: abj or not.
I was under the impression that wands use either your mundane CL (if you're not casting from a spellbook) or caster class CL (if you are) for the purpose of resisting dispels. Am I mistaken about this? And SF: Abj isn't exactly a throwaway feat, even if you think AD: Abj is.
You are incorrect, the function is as follows:

If you're mundane, or just never use your spells, wands will use your character level as your caster level on the check.

If you use spells, then wands and the like use the item caster level instead.

So you'll either never touch your ranger spellbook, and everything will cast at CL 30 from wands anyway, or you'll use ranger spells, and your wands will dispel mostly at CL 12-17, if you take AD:Abj.

SF: Abj is also a throwaway feat by itself. GSF: Abj is required to get any use out of it, and between that and AD: Abj, you're looking at three feats sunk into a very niche purpose.


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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:44 am

GSF Abjuration is easy to get on a ranger build, though, just grab it as a ranger bonus feat. Certainly more useful than another favored enemy.

That said, yeah, if wands dispel at wand level, I'd definitely skip AD Abjuration.

Edit: Although I suppose if shield is being cast at level 5, that makes GSF Abjuration of dubious value. Oh NWN, you have some strange stuff going on.
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Scurvy Cur
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Scurvy Cur » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:55 am

You really don't want to spend a ranger bonus feat on it on this build anyhow.

You want as many favored enemies as possible, since every favored enemy class is, on average, taking 12 more damage a hit at +2 AB, and 5 FE types is already pretty limiting.


Ironsoul
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Ironsoul » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:15 am

Useful favored enemies are: #1 Human, then probably Ogres for the most bang for your buck. That'll cover not only epic dungeons but a lot of the early to mid level dungeons as well. Trolls, Ogres, Ettins, Giants... you get them all. After that I'm personally a fan of Undead because they're common foes and its nice to be able to RP being a slayer of undead and their ilk.

After that you can go Outsiders for level 15+, that'll make planeswalking more enjoyable.

After that its kind of up to you. Some people say dragons, but for how rarely I fight them I dont really find it all too worthwhile. You'll probably have a good group to back you up if you're fighting a dragon that would require BoE to defeat... thus you dont really need it as one of your favored enemies to begin with.

TimeAdept
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by TimeAdept » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:18 am

Human, Undead, Giant, Outsider in that order would be by pick. Other decent picks are orcs, goblinoids, dragons. Or PVP races if thats your thing. Elf, halfling, dwarf.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:29 am

Gnome. Always take FE: Gnome.

The purge begins soon.
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Scurvy Cur
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Scurvy Cur » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:06 am

Favored Enemy: Halflings, taken 5 times


Nitro
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Nitro » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:15 am

Scurvy Cur wrote:Favored Enemy: Halflings, taken 5 times
Halfings gives you the OP quadruple dip of Halflings, PC Kobolds, PC Goblins and PC Fey.

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High Primate
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by High Primate » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Kill'em all.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

Astral
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Astral » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:15 pm

5 times elf.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:57 pm

In light of the new ranger updates, um... Ranger 26/Monk or Rogue 4? Depending on if you want crazy APR and AC or UMD.

Rogue build I'd go Str and use the ranger armor, monk build needs Dex and cloth armor.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:39 am

Is the new armor in yet? The stats on that might help figure out the build. But uh, I still don't see any reason to do anything but a 23 ranger/4 fighter/3 bard (21 ranger if you don't want the empathy thing). I'd imagine most rangers will want the same build, it's just a bit better now.
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Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:08 am

Well, let's compare.

23 ranger/4 fighter/3 rogue gets +6 damage from WS/EWS, 9 favored/studied enemies with a 2d6+5 damage bonus, +4 blade thirst, +8 Greater Magic Fang, and companion gets either +7 dex/+3 damage or +7 str/+3 AC.

26 ranger/4 rogue gets 11 favored/studied enemies with a 2d6+6 damage bonus, +5 blade thirst, +9 GMF, and comp gets +8 dex/+4 damage or +8 str/+4 AC... plus is five levels higher. And Empathied animals are henchmen.

I dunno, I feel like it's sort of a wash? 21/4/3 gets better all-round damage, but the 26/4 gets two extra favored/studied enemies and so much more for their animal companion. Not having played a high level ranger, I can't say how strong the companion is, but would those buffs be enough to make it worthwhile?

Other reason I like the 26/4 is that three rogue could be taken pre-epic. Sacrifices 1 AB for the conveniences of using wands/getting some tumble AC earlier.
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:04 am

Ehhhh. Arelith uses the default NWN summons now, so you can pretty much just roll up a ranger to 26 and cycle through pets by leveling/deleveling. (I'm sure there's an easier way to do it), but the companions aren't, uh, super great by themselves. The buffs help but I don't think they help that much to make a +1 here-and-there bonus on your companion worth losing two epic feats from fighter and +6 damage vs anything that's not favored. (Bane averages at 7 damage anyway- so you gain two more enemies to deal epic spec damage on instead of everyone)

Also, relatively certain 23 ranger is enough for the henchman thing?
I'm not awake enough to do the Difference Math but I still prefer the 23.
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Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.

Astral
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Astral » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:59 pm

I still cant find a proper use for this class. I'm leaning towards dex based with monk lvls, as str builds got abysmal saves and surprisingly, not enough ac, still. Looks like its a 21 ranger, 6 monk, 3 bard and it might be a pain to level this up before you stack damage bonus against enough favoured enemies (depends on how useful the animal companion is, it might make life easy but I dont know I have no experience with those).

What about builds with 9(?) ranger who dont focus favoring enemies? Are the changes relevant to those long forgotten builds?
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One Two Three Five
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by One Two Three Five » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:14 pm

I sure wouldn't run that first one if I'm being honest with you. The whole no-rogue kama monk thing works mostly on spellsword right now, and you'd basically be doing the same thing on this: monk for APR and 6ish extra wis ac (probably 8, realistically, since you need wis for spells).. but without the benefit of fighter levels, int-damage, spell imbues.. Honestly not a huge fan of melee dex rangers at all, right now. Unless that ranger cloth is real good, that's probably not changing for me. Archers, Idunno. We'll see.

What rangers seem to want to be right now is a dual-wielding (kukri or double weapon), strength-based, runic-leather-armor wearing, bane of enemies fighter-rogue-druid lite. This isn't too far from the original concept of them mechanically anyway. I think they used to be a fighter kit. Or a druid one? Either way. You drop into improved expertise when needed, and if you're not using a double weapon, pull out a tower shield to squeeze out a little more. HIPS and vamp regen to help stay alive.

AC wont be great but probably not terrible either? Certainly not spellsword/monk ac though.
Add +1 to Zavandar's build, I think? I'm not 100% sure what their ac calculations are, though, guessing it's the runic studded with haste and barkskin running. So about 58 with expertise. I'd personally go kukri (lose 2 ab but rangers can take that imo) for the option to swap to a tower for another 3 AC- 61 with expertise.

But what rangers really turn out to be on Arelith, I think, is a damage canon that happens to have a few tricks to get its survivability up long enough to dish out that damage. Think sturdier rogue with more options and a built-in flanking buddy.

Edit: I usually don't like 9 ranger builds since 4 fighter seems more efficient but I suppose a 'ranger' build that took just enough to use the ranger armors (hope that cloth one's good) could work. The studded leather (9+4 dex = 13) is essentially full plate, so.
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Wytchee
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Wytchee » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:19 pm

People seem to be discounting the fact that you can have three animal companions out. One of them has 5 APR and does like 40-50 damage with exceptional AB. You also now get HiPS at 16 in wilderness areas, and vampiric regen should be proccing more often now.

Your AC can easily reach the mid-to-high 40s while dual wielding, so it's not like your AC is completely non-functional.

I'm curious what a pure-30 ranger build would look like, to be honest.
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Improv
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Improv » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:51 pm

Now more than ever animal companions should be changed to cooldown like SD/blackguard summons instead of 1 per rest.

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Wytchee
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Wytchee » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:37 pm

Improv wrote:Now more than ever animal companions should be changed to cooldown like SD/blackguard summons instead of 1 per rest.
Yah that would be kewl.
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Baseili
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Re: Ranger Build

Post by Baseili » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:58 pm

I've actually been toying with a pure ranger build for a little while now, but be warned I'm far from a competent character builder and this idea was me trying to get the 'unnverving forest stalker' aspect. That includes taking all the PC races and having ESF: Lore so that he can understand languages (I think 41 is the cap for that, not entirely sure).

Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Heal, Discipline, Lore, Animal Empathy and Search with the +2 per level going into Spot/Listen, was also considering Set/Craft Trap.

Ranger - Sniper Path
Human
Str 10
Dex 17 (19 after gift)
Con 12
Wis 12 (14 after gift) (Potentially skip gift and rank up at lvl 4 & 8)
Int 14
Cha 9

1 Weapon Finesse + Favoured Enemy: Half Orcs + Weapon Focus Longbow
3 SF Enchanting
5 FE: Half Elves
6 GSF Enchanting
9 Imp Crit Longbow
10 FE: Elves
12 Craft Wand
15 Extend Spell + FE: Halflings
18 Blind Fight
20 FE: Outsiders
21 Epic Weapon Focus Longbow
23 Bane of Enemies
24 Armour Skin
25 FE: Gnomes
26 FE: Constructs
27 Epic Prowess
29 FE: Dragons
30 ESF: Lore + FE: ?

Studied Enemies: Human, Dwarf, Undead, Reptilian, Giants, ?

Not entirely sure what to do with the last Favoured/Studied Enemy, was considering Fey for FE and possibly Animal for SE. Feel free to critique.

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