Kobold Hero Build

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afreshstart
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Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:33 pm

Hello, I thought of a kobold hero build, it has pretty decent stats but it's lack of feats makes me wonder if fighter would be a better pick than BG.

Base/Racial/GIFT/Level up/RDD/FINAL
STR 16 -2 2 4 8 28
DEX 8 2 1 11
CON 12 2 14
INT 14 2 16
WIS 8 8
CHA 16 2 2 2 22

Also gift of stardom.

Levels Feat

Bard 1 Power attack
Bard 2
Bard 3 Cleave
Bard 4
Bard 5
RDD 1 Expertise
RDD 2
RDD 3
RDD4 Blind Fight
BG1
BG2
BG3 Weapon Focus
RDD 5
RDD 6
BG4 Divine Might
RDD 7
BG5
BG6 Divine Shield
BG 7
RDD8
RDD9 Epic weapon Focus
RDD 10
BG 8
BG9 Armor Skin
Bard 6
Bard 7
Bard 8 Epic Prowess
Bard 9
Bard 10
Bard 11 ESF: UMD

Maximum AB: 22(Base)+15(STR)+5(GMW scrolls)+2(Bard song)+4(Feats, focus, epic focus, prowess)+2( -2hand command bonus)= 50 +6 (taunt)

Maximum AC: 10(Base)+5(Expertise)+3(Armor)+4(Dexterity)+6(armor enchantment)+1(Boots dodge AC)+5(Shadowshield scroll)+6 (+4 large shield)+2(Armor skin)+1(mage armor dodge)+12(divine shield)+4(haste)+4(shield spell)+6(tumble)+4(RDD bonus)=73

Spell Craft 33
Taunt 33
Lore 8
Hide 5
Disc 33
UMD 32
Tumble 30

It has enough UMD for dale sword. And it can reach enough dex with only a displacer beast cloak and from a +5 from cats grace.

I was wondering if fighter would be better than BG to get extra feats. It can reach even higher AB but it will lose divine shield AC, but can take improved expertise to make up for it a bit. Also it'll have improved knockdown which can be better for pvp instead of insane saves.

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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Freyason » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:46 pm

I'd do different split if using same classes. 10 RDD/4 BG/16 Ba. Fit in lingering song in that case.

(don't think kobold mechanically needs UMD for dale sword, but might have issues obtaining one)

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afreshstart
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:56 pm

Freyason wrote:I'd do different split if using same classes. 10 RDD/4 BG/16 Ba. Fit in lingering song in that case.

(don't think kobold mechanically needs UMD for dale sword, but might have issues obtaining one)
Maybe trying to fit in the dale sword is a bit too greedy, but I don't think It'd be that hard, considering amount of outcasts I see these days. If there is no need for UMD, I can bump up perform to have 30 (does the gift count?) by 30. And ESF:UMD can be replaced with ESF:Taunt. But I don't think there are any feats I can replace with lingering song.

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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Freyason » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:47 pm

Lingering song will make these 16 1 minute songs last 1.5 minutes each, it's pretty good ;)

As far as UMD, you can still use 15 (adjust for charisma) to be able to use divine magic.

16 bard needs 30 perform, so easily reachable with ranks (and remember to adjust for charisma, or any equipment)

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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Lurch » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:48 pm

Lingering song requires 20 levels of bard, unless that has been changed.

EDIT: Oh my bad, thought it was lasting inspiration under discussion for a minute there. Regardless, I'd consider trying to get that one in somehow.

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Jack Oat
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Jack Oat » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 pm

The way you have your stat spread set up is confusing to look at. Why do you have 11 DEX? What's the arbitrary "1" somewhere in its progression? Do you put 1 point into DEX when you level up? If so, why don't you drop 1 point of STR, bump CON up by 2, and JUST invest in STR on level-ups?

I'd invest into ESF: Disc instead of Epic Prowess to boost your ability to resist knockdowns.

Why all the investment into BG instead of boosting your Bard/Bard Song?

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Opustus
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Opustus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 pm

I think it's a fine build, but could go either Bard16 or BG16. The bard16 can be used for tougher spawns, the build should generally be able to stand its own against most foes.

However, I think you really need Curse Song still, it is that good even if it's a situational boost. At Bard16 it is effectively: +5AB, +2AC, +4 to checks vs Taunt and KD (given you get Ring of the Ram for the feat), +3 DR. For that reason, I'd ditch the Epic Prowess for Curse Song.
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afreshstart
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:57 am

The 1 dex is from level up, since it has a spare point and attributes should be even for level ups. The BG focus is for higher AB, sneak damage and summons. It's been a while since I thought of this build. I will rebuild it according to suggestions here.

Curse song at level 16 seems very strong, but is there a will save to beat it? And if there is how it's calculated?

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Opustus
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Opustus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 am

Curse song is totally saveless and SR isn't rolled either. The only form of immunity is to be silenced, so casting a silence spell on self will do this. However, I don't think this strategy is common in PvP and I've never seen a monster do this.
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afreshstart
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:15 pm

1 Bard 1 Weapon Focus
2 Bard 2
3 Bard 3 Power Attack
4 Bard 4
5 Bard 5
6 RDD 1 Cleave
7 RDD 2
8 RDD 3
9 RDD 4 Blind-Fight
10 Bard 6
11 Bard 7
12 Bard 8 Lingering Song
13 BG 1
14 BG 2
15 BG 3 Divine Shield
16 RDD 5
17 RDD 6
18 BG 4 Divine Might
19 RDD 7
20 RDD 8
21 RDD 9 Epic WF
22 RDD 10
23 Bard 9
24 Bard 10 Curse Song
25 Bard 11
26 Bard 12
27 Bard 13 Armor Skin
28 Bard 14
29 Bard 15
30 Bard 16 ESF Discipline

All right here is the new version.

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Opustus
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Opustus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:51 pm

It looks good to me. Expertise and Improved Expertise seem to be important feats on Arelith (the AB scaling might be greater than what some other servers are used to?), but I'm not sure if it's essential enough to be considered a dealbreaker. If the gurus here definitely think it is though, you could try grabbing Expertise in favour of ESF Discipline: you will reach a respectable Discipline thanks to your solid STR modifier, and the song will ameliorate it a bit.
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Ork
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Ork » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:23 pm

I think the greatest tragedy is the lack of knockdown. Consider subbing Lingering Song for it.

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afreshstart
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:31 pm

I thought about it but kobolds are small creatures. So is KD worth it without Improved knockdown?

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Opustus
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Opustus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:37 pm

Enough woodland critters round to be worth it, methinks. I thought the Ring of Ram is rather common stock on Arelith, with its complementary KD feat? Or is this FOIG? Have I made an arse?
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PenguinNinja
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by PenguinNinja » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:49 pm

Just a small note, you can't get weapon focus on bard 1. As for KD, depends on what you're going for. In PvP, while many builds have discipline, not all have the luxury of getting large quantities of it, and with curse song and decent bard levels you can reduce their discipline and such, so even basic KD can still be useful against some builds even on a kobold. Also, I would highly recommend subbing out Lingering Song for Improver Critical, it's almost essential on a strength based/DM build, your damage will increase a fair bit.

You also want KD/Called Shot in case you come across a pesky epic dodge build, something like that that you can use to trigger their ED

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afreshstart
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:05 pm

All right here is he final iteration for the build. It should be able to get 70+ AC without expertise (Including curse song debuff) so I think it can be dropped. But if an item exists that can give KD it can, I then expertise would be a nice addition. I also switched when some feat are taken, since I realized bards can't use shortswords.



1 Bard 1 Power Attack
2 Bard 2
3 Bard 3 Cleave
4 Bard 4
5 Bard 5
6 RDD 1 Blind-Fight
7 RDD 2
8 RDD 3
9 BG 1 Divine Shield
10 BG 2
11 BG 3
12 RDD 4 WF
13 Bard 6
14 Bard 7
15 Bard 8 Curse Song
16 RDD 5
17 RDD 6
18 BG 4 Divine Might
19 RDD 7
20 RDD 8
21 RDD 9 Epic WF
22 RDD 10
23 Bard 9
24 Bard 10 Knockdown
25 Bard 11
26 Bard 12
27 Bard 13 Imp.Critical
28 Bard 14
29 Bard 15
30 Bard 16 Armor Skin

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afreshstart
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by afreshstart » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:32 pm

Courtesy of Luth here is a revised version. The other one doesn't reach 6 BAB needed for BG.

1 Bard 1 Power Attack
2 Bard 2
3 Bard 3 Cleave
4 Bard 4
5 Bard 5
6 RDD 1 Blind-Fight
7 RDD 2
8 RDD 3
9 Bard 6 Curse Song
10 BG 1
11 BG 2
12 BG 3 Divine Shield
13 RDD 4
14 RDD 5
15 RDD 6 WF
16 Bard 7
17 Bard 8
18 BG 4 Divine Might
19 RDD 7
20 RDD 8
21 RDD 9 Epic WF
22 RDD 10
23 Bard 9
24 Bard 10 Knockdown
25 Bard 11
26 Bard 12
27 Bard 13 Imp.Critical
28 Bard 14
29 Bard 15
30 Bard 16 Armor Skin
Last edited by afreshstart on Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Kalopsia » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:09 am

12 BG 1 Divine Shield
This does not work, Blackguards get Turn Undead at level 3. :)

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Luth
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Re: Kobold Hero Build

Post by Luth » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:23 am

Kalopsia wrote:
12 BG 1 Divine Shield
This does not work, Blackguards get Turn Undead at level 3. :)
Thanks for noticing. I totally forewent that. Then grab BG at 10th level, have the BG grab Divine Shield at 12, then Divine Might at 18. Problem solved.

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