Pure 30 Monk

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taoofbalance
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Pure 30 Monk

Post by taoofbalance » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:45 pm

I'm making a pure 30 human monk. I'm aware of being weaker by not dipping into something. But flavor wise, I dislike dipping.

Other than not taking circle kick are there any other feat suggestions?. I'm thinking of focusing on increasing the stunning fist dc in epics. It's a Kensei Dex/Wis build. I took strong soul and luck of heroes at Level one and finesse at Level 3.
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Pavor Nocturnus
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Pavor Nocturnus » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:05 pm

Pre-epic: Blind-Fight, Expertise, Improved Expertise, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, Toughness

Epic: Armor Skin, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess, Epic Skill Focus (Discipline), Improved Ki Strike +4 & +5 (provided you have at least 21 Wisdom at that point.)

If you will not be able to get that 21 Wisdom, you could consider taking Great Dexterity feats instead for more AB (and AC). Every single point in it counts, because the AB of a level 30 monk is not high.
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taoofbalance
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by taoofbalance » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:14 pm

Damn. I should have noted my int is 10.
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Improv » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:15 pm

taoofbalance wrote:I'm making a pure 30 human monk. I'm aware of being weaker by not dipping into something. But flavor wise, I dislike dipping.

Other than not taking circle kick are there any other feat suggestions?. I'm thinking of focusing on increasing the stunning fist dc in epics. It's a Kensei Dex/Wis build. I took strong soul and luck of heroes at Level one and finesse at Level 3.
I'm sure you're aware but without dipping rogue or shadowdancer all of your dex AC is going to go away when you're flat footed. And you can't qualify for epic dodge. But on the plus side you'll be good at running away for dear life.

You definitely want to max out the parry skill though investing skill focus feats may not be necessary.

(and if the int. is only 10 I might remake while it's painless to get the expertise feats, you will desperately need them more than slightly higher saves)
Last edited by Improv on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pavor Nocturnus
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Pavor Nocturnus » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:16 pm

If you're around level 3 still, you're better off remaking your character and improving the attribute spread.

Indeed, preferably as either a 16 monk/4 fighter/10 rogue or a 20 monk/10 rogue, for reasons mentioned above. Really, no one will notice the difference but you, on that character sheet.
Last edited by Pavor Nocturnus on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Iceborn
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Iceborn » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:16 pm

Going 21 base wisdom, even in a pure monk, is mostly a mistake.
You don't really want the added build gimping that is screwing up your stats to get that much base wis, and then spending 2 epic feats to have your fist penetrate a few sources of DR.

Consider investing in stealth scores.
Exploit that SR against mages.
Go Kensai, go.

Parry is very situational. An option if you like how it works (I don't, so I don't recommend it).

(Mechanics aside for a moment, really. Investing into other classes is completely fine from an IC point of view. If you want to stick to the hardcore rules, monk characters have a special condition regarding multiclassing: Once they take any other class, they cannot take any other monk level anymore)
Last edited by Iceborn on Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Improv
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Improv » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:21 pm

I recommend a skill but not feat investment in parry because in the situations you need it, it works very very well. Especially on a monk with a surplus of attacks and free cleave. It's not the go-to for every encounter, though.

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Pavor Nocturnus
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Pavor Nocturnus » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:40 pm

Iceborn wrote:Going 21 base wisdom, even in a pure monk, is mostly a mistake.
You don't really want the added build gimping that is screwing up your stats to get that much base wis, and then spending 2 epic feats to have your fist penetrate a few sources of DR.
You're right. Just tried one and it's horrendous.
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Improv » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm

Just to be clear the +5 ki strike feat has no actual attack bonus so it will bypass DR but a Wis based monk will hit a lot less because of terrible AB. High dex means decent enough AB and thus hitting a lot more so in most cases it will even out. Plus dex based means you'll hit everything a lot more, including the enemies with no DR that you will still be struggling to hit if Wis based.

You need high AB more than anything. Wis based knockdowns won't land and forget about expertise.

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Ork
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Ork » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:59 pm

Screwed Build Checklist:
Wis Monk ✔️
Kensai Monk ✔️
30 Levels of Monk ✔️
10 INT ✔️
Save feats on Monk ✔️

U gon do great

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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by dallion43 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:21 pm

Monks that go for stunning fist DC are usually PvP builds with a combination of sneak(usually hips) and fighter or CoT lvls for extra epic feats for DC.

With your current build it will be hard both in PvE and PvP. Consider recreating while it is easy, if 30 monk lvls is must reconsider stunning fist, low amount of uses for PvE, low ab/DC for PvP on 30 monk.
If not at least consider taking parry with at least +10 ESF feat (since you don't have imp.exp for PvE and it is useful in PvP due to Arelith mechanics and 4+1 apr standard flurry behavior).

Sab1
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Sab1 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:59 am

Isn't parry useless at higher levels once your foes have 5 and 6 attacks?

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BegoneThoth
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:10 am

useless at any level imo
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:49 am

It's a bad idea to have parry as your ONLY form of defense, that's certain. In some situations (1v1 vs a target with 4-5 APR, for instance) it's actually quite strong. In others, it's worthless. Works best with epic dodge, which a pure monk doesn't get.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:00 am

Baron Saturday wrote:that's certain. In some situations (1v1 vs a target with 4-5 APR, for instance) it's actually quite strong. In others, it's worthless. Works best with epic dodge, which a pure monk doesn't get.
if i see someone enter parry mode that's a good time to scroll or something because they can't do anything in parry mode but sit there doing nothing.

good time for point blank heal kits

or back up a bit and start working an iron horn wand from outside melee range until they fall over (they're dex if they're using parry so they'll fall over quick)

or just turn around, walk 2 feet, and shoot them in the face with a gonne, then just keep doing it until they drop parry.

why would you sit in someones face where their build is strongest when you can, instead, walk away with impunity and use global ranged options forcing them to drop their gimmick and fight normal
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Baron Saturday
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Baron Saturday » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:29 am

Yes, in PvP against an opponent who understands the weaknesses of parry mode and is prepared to exploit them is one of those situations where it's pretty worthless.
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BegoneThoth
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by BegoneThoth » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:36 am

but in pve it only works in 1v1 situations

i think it's just junk, even if it has an ab boost

moreso considering how much you have to give up in terms of other useful skills to get a parry score as high as some people's ab. could be lore or heal or +16 craft points

parry is not advised (IMO)
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by dallion43 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:10 pm

The OP asked for advise for pure monk with no expertise feats for a fist build.

PvE:
Last time I checked (yesterday) pulling still works, even if not great as before.
Parry is dex build meaning Parry damage(+~20) effectively doubles the strike damage bringing the output DPS on 3 riposte out of 5 close as no parry with 6apr on above build.
In our case how much damage a pure 30 lvl monk ,dex/wiz oriented, has? Should double even on 2 riposte out of 4.
The AC on this build is almost.. not enough.

PvP:
Just to mention a few;
Parry is a toggle mode.
Can help a dex build survive a ,non TStop, TStrike knoks duration.
When using healing kits, etc, a PC considered flat footed.
(This OP PC is stunning fist, clarity doesnt save vs this from what I know, even if the DC is heh, still.)
Etc.

But, yeah parry is situational and very build based.
Bit for the OP at least it can ease the lvl on process even if he won't find use for it in PvP.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Pure 30 Monk

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:15 am

I confess, it is hard to make parry work. I just really want it to, because it's such a fun idea.

I have had some success with parry + a queued KD or stunning fist that fires on the riposte, but that doesn't seem to trigger reliably.

Realistically, though, your defense is gonna be fine. You're a Dex/Wis Kensai monk, so anything that gives you problems, you can just run away from.

Offensively, all you've really got going for you is lots of attacks that do diddly for damage. Assuming adamantine gloves, that's 1d20+6+essence, so ~21/hit on average. With AB around, what, 41? A tanky enemy is gonna be a nightmare for you, with a lot of your hits missing, and those that do hit not doing much. This is where parry might actually be useful, for some extra AB and damage at the cost of attacks.
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