PDK Builds

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High Primate
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PDK Builds

Post by High Primate » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:35 pm

So, what are some of the most optimal builds possible with the new changes to PDK? What other classes does it synergize with (I would think Bard, and possibly Paladin/BG, given the changes to rallying cry). Seems like any build along these lines would be relatively feat-starved, though.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Spaniardl » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:15 pm

Seems like it would be best to mix with bard. The best ability in my opinion is inspire courage and that combined with bard song would be great.

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Spaniardl » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:19 pm

Actually, i was lookin at the wiki instead of the forum post... Rallying cry seems good not inspire courage, but im curious how many casts you get

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by yellowcateyes » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:44 pm

Spaniardl wrote:Actually, i was lookin at the wiki instead of the forum post... Rallying cry seems good not inspire courage, but im curious how many casts you get
Infinite casts, on cooldown. The announcement post has the details.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:20 pm

My first idea was a CON-focused 16 bard/4 fighter/10 Knight. Get 16 CHA for Bard spells, get 14/16 STR, dump the rest in CON and level it up to get EDR, and then go to town with the Vanguard - or Valiant path. You're super susceptible to dispels, but most bard builds are.

I don't think the Knights will be super feat-starved, really. Weapon Focus is standard for all builds, so really you're just sacrificing 1 feat, which isn't totally useless either.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Zavandar » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:55 pm

If you want to be everyone's favorite buff-bot I'd recommend something like this (link fixed):

Image

Feat order can be changed, but remember that you can only take song feats on bard levels (I think?).

Definitely go valiant.

EDIT: Thinking about it though, if you want to max intimidate for your fear, you'll need to take that last fighter level at 30. You will be very skill-starved with this build, even as a human. 203 skill points to work with, but it would take around 272 to max out everything (assuming 20 umd with modifier).

Skills are: concentration, discipline, heal, intimidate, perform, spellcraft, taunt, tumble, umd.

Your call on what to drop. For max buffing/debuffing, you'll want intimidate, perform, and taunt.
Last edited by Zavandar on Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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High Primate
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by High Primate » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:15 pm

You mean still spell, right? No real reason for a Bard to take silent spell.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
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Zavandar
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Zavandar » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:20 pm

I definitely meant still spell. Will edit my link in a bit.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Lorkas » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:38 pm

If I was just looking for a buff bot, might I not prefer someone with 20 levels of bard so that they have Lasting Inspiration? Those 16 uses of bard song are gonna go quick if they only last 90s each and you want to actually make use of curse song at all.

Obviously the 4 fighter levels makes for extra damage, but they are gonna cost the party significant bard song uptime, won't they?

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Zavandar » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:50 pm

You're not wrong, Lorkas. 20 bard is better for that purpose.

Not getting martial beforehand means that your weapon focus would be in a simple weapon, though. It's a loss of 2 feats (because your third bonus feat from fighter would be epic weapon spec, anyway), 6 damage, having to use a simple weapon, no heavy armor, and 2 BAB.

It'd look something like this, I think:

Image
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Lorkas » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:06 pm

I suppose you could be an elf and take your WF in longsword or longbow (or even be a wood elf and meet the WF requirement with your racial WF: Longbow out of the box).

It would cost you your human skill points, but gain you +2 STR at the cost of -2 CON.

I guess getting Lasting Inspiration, but not until level 20 is eh...

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by High Primate » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:11 pm

Lorkas wrote: I guess getting Lasting Inspiration, but not until level 20 is eh...
You need 20 Bard levels to get lasting inspiration. To get the most out of the build you need to take it at level 30.
Some builds I've worked on (not recommended):
Charisma Battlecleric
"E-Dodge Brycer"

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Zavandar » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:17 pm

I think at that point you may not want to tank, either.

I did come up with another potential build--one for a drow, backseat commander.

Image

Or, you could go light crossbow for the drow-specific one and use point blank shot on something else, since that crossbow gets it for free.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Astral » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:24 am

Optimal use of this class would start with aiming towards dps. You make 1 ally very hard to kill so at that point all you need is a lot of damage to make quick work. I might do something like 20 barbarian 10 protector or vanguard (depends if I decide to invest in terrifying rage or not), kensai of course. Otherwise 20 bard 10 Valiant but I'm not sold on this one entirely. I feel like 25 bard build makes a much, much better party support.
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Lorkas
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Lorkas » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:30 am

Otherwise 20 bard 10 Valiant but I'm not sold on this one entirely. I feel like 25 bard build makes a much, much better party support.
Why? The bard song only improves in +1 AC, some extra Temp HP, and some skills over those levels. You get way more combat support from 10 levels in any PDK path than you would from those 5 extra levels of bard. The main perk of the extra bard seems to me to be increased dispel resistance--is that what you're thinking of?

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Astral » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:20 am

Lorkas wrote:
Otherwise 20 bard 10 Valiant but I'm not sold on this one entirely. I feel like 25 bard build makes a much, much better party support.
Why? The bard song only improves in +1 AC, some extra Temp HP, and some skills over those levels. You get way more combat support from 10 levels in any PDK path than you would from those 5 extra levels of bard. The main perk of the extra bard seems to me to be increased dispel resistance--is that what you're thinking of?
Perhaps I'm overrating the skill bonus (and debuff to your enemies). +14 to party and -14 to your enemies makes everything KDable, tauntalbe, easier to interrupt while casting and so on. And you still have 5 lvls to spend on paragon or paladin if you want the bardadin saves/ac, fighter for feats and barb if you go heavy con-bard this barbarian dip can prove incredible. Also yeah, 20 CL is meh.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Baron Saturday » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:05 am

I really like the idea of the PDK as a summon buffer/support as well, though I admit I'm having trouble finding a build where the need for at least 7 PDK doesn't make the summon unbearably weak. 7 Fighter/16 BG/7 PDK? Kensai, because no UMD, so you might as well. Maybe 23 Ranger/7 PDK, buffing both the animal companion and empathied henchman?
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:54 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:I'm having trouble finding a build where the need for at least 7 PDK doesn't make the summon unbearably weak.
Have you considered a Pale Master / Mummy Dust setup? Some kind of Death Knight, perhaps.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Astral » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:41 pm

4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Hunter548 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Astral wrote:4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
Can't hit bg or pdk requirements in three levels, so the PM version of this is all that works.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Baron Saturday » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:15 pm

Hunter548 wrote:
Astral wrote:4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
Can't hit bg or pdk requirements in three levels, so the PM version of this is all that works.
Even the PM version is difficult, since you've got to take PM as early as level 4 or 5, and it's one of those rare classes that still requires DM approval. Developing the necessary RP to get a PM token by level 4 would be tricky!
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Nitro » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:54 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:
Hunter548 wrote:
Astral wrote:4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
Can't hit bg or pdk requirements in three levels, so the PM version of this is all that works.
Even the PM version is difficult, since you've got to take PM as early as level 4 or 5, and it's one of those rare classes that still requires DM approval. Developing the necessary RP to get a PM token by level 4 would be tricky!
You can always de-level back to 3 after you get the token.

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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:18 am

Nitro wrote: You can always de-level back to 3 after you get the token.
Technically true, but kind of a pain. Not what I would call an accessible build! I think I'd do the fighter/PDK/BG (7/7/16) if I wanted to go the summoner route.

Moving on!

Fighter 6/Rogue 14/Knight Vanguard 10
Sort of a knight-auxilliary. Definitely a support/utility character, providing scouting, skillmonkey assistance, and some nice debuffs to help out the heavy hitters. Even without intimidate gear you could hit a DC 31 Fear, and wouldn't be hard to get that to ~40. Probably dex-based, going for edodge. Would the 1 round immobilize from Last Stand make enemies vulnerable to sneak attacks?

I could see this build doing well with a horse.
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Wytchee » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:15 am

Is PDK not a prestige class? I thought you could only have 20 levels of prestige classes, and these builds have more than that. :P

Would Tribal Barbarians suck at only 20 barb levels?
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Re: PDK Builds

Post by Lorkas » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:33 am

Wytchee wrote:Is PDK not a prestige class? I thought you could only have 20 levels of prestige classes, and these builds have more than that. :P

Would Tribal Barbarians suck at only 20 barb levels?
The limit applies to a single PrC, not the sum of all PrC levels. The limit also isn't 20 levels as such--it's a limit of 10 pre-epic levels. It's only a 20-level limit on Arelith because there are only 10 epic levels for you to add on top of your 10 pre epic levels.

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