PDK Builds
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PDK Builds
So, what are some of the most optimal builds possible with the new changes to PDK? What other classes does it synergize with (I would think Bard, and possibly Paladin/BG, given the changes to rallying cry). Seems like any build along these lines would be relatively feat-starved, though.
Re: PDK Builds
Seems like it would be best to mix with bard. The best ability in my opinion is inspire courage and that combined with bard song would be great.
Re: PDK Builds
Actually, i was lookin at the wiki instead of the forum post... Rallying cry seems good not inspire courage, but im curious how many casts you get
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Re: PDK Builds
Infinite casts, on cooldown. The announcement post has the details.Spaniardl wrote:Actually, i was lookin at the wiki instead of the forum post... Rallying cry seems good not inspire courage, but im curious how many casts you get
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Re: PDK Builds
My first idea was a CON-focused 16 bard/4 fighter/10 Knight. Get 16 CHA for Bard spells, get 14/16 STR, dump the rest in CON and level it up to get EDR, and then go to town with the Vanguard - or Valiant path. You're super susceptible to dispels, but most bard builds are.
I don't think the Knights will be super feat-starved, really. Weapon Focus is standard for all builds, so really you're just sacrificing 1 feat, which isn't totally useless either.
I don't think the Knights will be super feat-starved, really. Weapon Focus is standard for all builds, so really you're just sacrificing 1 feat, which isn't totally useless either.
Previous:
Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil
Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil
Re: PDK Builds
If you want to be everyone's favorite buff-bot I'd recommend something like this (link fixed):
Feat order can be changed, but remember that you can only take song feats on bard levels (I think?).
Definitely go valiant.
EDIT: Thinking about it though, if you want to max intimidate for your fear, you'll need to take that last fighter level at 30. You will be very skill-starved with this build, even as a human. 203 skill points to work with, but it would take around 272 to max out everything (assuming 20 umd with modifier).
Skills are: concentration, discipline, heal, intimidate, perform, spellcraft, taunt, tumble, umd.
Your call on what to drop. For max buffing/debuffing, you'll want intimidate, perform, and taunt.
Feat order can be changed, but remember that you can only take song feats on bard levels (I think?).
Definitely go valiant.
EDIT: Thinking about it though, if you want to max intimidate for your fear, you'll need to take that last fighter level at 30. You will be very skill-starved with this build, even as a human. 203 skill points to work with, but it would take around 272 to max out everything (assuming 20 umd with modifier).
Skills are: concentration, discipline, heal, intimidate, perform, spellcraft, taunt, tumble, umd.
Your call on what to drop. For max buffing/debuffing, you'll want intimidate, perform, and taunt.
Last edited by Zavandar on Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Intelligence is too important
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Re: PDK Builds
You mean still spell, right? No real reason for a Bard to take silent spell.
Re: PDK Builds
I definitely meant still spell. Will edit my link in a bit.
Intelligence is too important
Re: PDK Builds
If I was just looking for a buff bot, might I not prefer someone with 20 levels of bard so that they have Lasting Inspiration? Those 16 uses of bard song are gonna go quick if they only last 90s each and you want to actually make use of curse song at all.
Obviously the 4 fighter levels makes for extra damage, but they are gonna cost the party significant bard song uptime, won't they?
Obviously the 4 fighter levels makes for extra damage, but they are gonna cost the party significant bard song uptime, won't they?
Re: PDK Builds
You're not wrong, Lorkas. 20 bard is better for that purpose.
Not getting martial beforehand means that your weapon focus would be in a simple weapon, though. It's a loss of 2 feats (because your third bonus feat from fighter would be epic weapon spec, anyway), 6 damage, having to use a simple weapon, no heavy armor, and 2 BAB.
It'd look something like this, I think:
Not getting martial beforehand means that your weapon focus would be in a simple weapon, though. It's a loss of 2 feats (because your third bonus feat from fighter would be epic weapon spec, anyway), 6 damage, having to use a simple weapon, no heavy armor, and 2 BAB.
It'd look something like this, I think:
Intelligence is too important
Re: PDK Builds
I suppose you could be an elf and take your WF in longsword or longbow (or even be a wood elf and meet the WF requirement with your racial WF: Longbow out of the box).
It would cost you your human skill points, but gain you +2 STR at the cost of -2 CON.
I guess getting Lasting Inspiration, but not until level 20 is eh...
It would cost you your human skill points, but gain you +2 STR at the cost of -2 CON.
I guess getting Lasting Inspiration, but not until level 20 is eh...
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Re: PDK Builds
You need 20 Bard levels to get lasting inspiration. To get the most out of the build you need to take it at level 30.Lorkas wrote: I guess getting Lasting Inspiration, but not until level 20 is eh...
Re: PDK Builds
I think at that point you may not want to tank, either.
I did come up with another potential build--one for a drow, backseat commander.
Or, you could go light crossbow for the drow-specific one and use point blank shot on something else, since that crossbow gets it for free.
I did come up with another potential build--one for a drow, backseat commander.
Or, you could go light crossbow for the drow-specific one and use point blank shot on something else, since that crossbow gets it for free.
Intelligence is too important
Re: PDK Builds
Optimal use of this class would start with aiming towards dps. You make 1 ally very hard to kill so at that point all you need is a lot of damage to make quick work. I might do something like 20 barbarian 10 protector or vanguard (depends if I decide to invest in terrifying rage or not), kensai of course. Otherwise 20 bard 10 Valiant but I'm not sold on this one entirely. I feel like 25 bard build makes a much, much better party support.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
Re: PDK Builds
Why? The bard song only improves in +1 AC, some extra Temp HP, and some skills over those levels. You get way more combat support from 10 levels in any PDK path than you would from those 5 extra levels of bard. The main perk of the extra bard seems to me to be increased dispel resistance--is that what you're thinking of?Otherwise 20 bard 10 Valiant but I'm not sold on this one entirely. I feel like 25 bard build makes a much, much better party support.
Re: PDK Builds
Perhaps I'm overrating the skill bonus (and debuff to your enemies). +14 to party and -14 to your enemies makes everything KDable, tauntalbe, easier to interrupt while casting and so on. And you still have 5 lvls to spend on paragon or paladin if you want the bardadin saves/ac, fighter for feats and barb if you go heavy con-bard this barbarian dip can prove incredible. Also yeah, 20 CL is meh.Lorkas wrote:Why? The bard song only improves in +1 AC, some extra Temp HP, and some skills over those levels. You get way more combat support from 10 levels in any PDK path than you would from those 5 extra levels of bard. The main perk of the extra bard seems to me to be increased dispel resistance--is that what you're thinking of?Otherwise 20 bard 10 Valiant but I'm not sold on this one entirely. I feel like 25 bard build makes a much, much better party support.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
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Re: PDK Builds
I really like the idea of the PDK as a summon buffer/support as well, though I admit I'm having trouble finding a build where the need for at least 7 PDK doesn't make the summon unbearably weak. 7 Fighter/16 BG/7 PDK? Kensai, because no UMD, so you might as well. Maybe 23 Ranger/7 PDK, buffing both the animal companion and empathied henchman?
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Re: PDK Builds
Have you considered a Pale Master / Mummy Dust setup? Some kind of Death Knight, perhaps.Baron Saturday wrote:I'm having trouble finding a build where the need for at least 7 PDK doesn't make the summon unbearably weak.
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Re: PDK Builds
4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
Re: PDK Builds
Can't hit bg or pdk requirements in three levels, so the PM version of this is all that works.Astral wrote:4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
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Re: PDK Builds
Even the PM version is difficult, since you've got to take PM as early as level 4 or 5, and it's one of those rare classes that still requires DM approval. Developing the necessary RP to get a PM token by level 4 would be tricky!Hunter548 wrote:Can't hit bg or pdk requirements in three levels, so the PM version of this is all that works.Astral wrote:4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Re: PDK Builds
You can always de-level back to 3 after you get the token.Baron Saturday wrote:Even the PM version is difficult, since you've got to take PM as early as level 4 or 5, and it's one of those rare classes that still requires DM approval. Developing the necessary RP to get a PM token by level 4 would be tricky!Hunter548 wrote:Can't hit bg or pdk requirements in three levels, so the PM version of this is all that works.Astral wrote:4 bard, 10 pdk, 16 pm or 16 bg. neglect offense entirely and Ward your dracolich or epic fiend. The pm version would probably look better on numbers but both of those can make the final summon hilarious.
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Re: PDK Builds
Technically true, but kind of a pain. Not what I would call an accessible build! I think I'd do the fighter/PDK/BG (7/7/16) if I wanted to go the summoner route.Nitro wrote: You can always de-level back to 3 after you get the token.
Moving on!
Fighter 6/Rogue 14/Knight Vanguard 10
Sort of a knight-auxilliary. Definitely a support/utility character, providing scouting, skillmonkey assistance, and some nice debuffs to help out the heavy hitters. Even without intimidate gear you could hit a DC 31 Fear, and wouldn't be hard to get that to ~40. Probably dex-based, going for edodge. Would the 1 round immobilize from Last Stand make enemies vulnerable to sneak attacks?
I could see this build doing well with a horse.
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
Re: PDK Builds
Is PDK not a prestige class? I thought you could only have 20 levels of prestige classes, and these builds have more than that.
Would Tribal Barbarians suck at only 20 barb levels?
Would Tribal Barbarians suck at only 20 barb levels?
Current character: Abigail Duskwood
Re: PDK Builds
The limit applies to a single PrC, not the sum of all PrC levels. The limit also isn't 20 levels as such--it's a limit of 10 pre-epic levels. It's only a 20-level limit on Arelith because there are only 10 epic levels for you to add on top of your 10 pre epic levels.Wytchee wrote:Is PDK not a prestige class? I thought you could only have 20 levels of prestige classes, and these builds have more than that.
Would Tribal Barbarians suck at only 20 barb levels?