Monolithic Air Shape Math

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Zavandar
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Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Hello.

I am trying to math out some things for the monolithic air elemental shape. I want to know if I've done everything right.

Image

Dodge AC cap is reached via:
14 from form, 4 from haste, 1 from mage armor, 1 from boots.

Druid, being a 3/4 BAB class, reaches 15 at 20, then another +1 at 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, for a total of 20, then another 25 from max DEX.

DEX bonus comes from second skin. Not that I'm going to play a druid with a fencing buckler, but it provides a +4 enhancement bonus. This is a full 30 druid, so only 3 AC from cross-classing tumble. Mage armor is listed as only giving 3 AC because the natural AC from barkskin overrides it. Is its enhancement bonus also overridden, making it only +2?

Anything I'm missing?
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hoshi
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by hoshi » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:28 pm

I don't think the dodge from boots transfer as it is not helm, armor, or shield. Your armor bonus will turn into deflection once shifted so mage armor will give dodge+armor but natural/deflection will not work as you already have them. Likewise if you're going to burn through potions of shielding, wearing a +deflection helm, etc you can skip the buckler and go for something else.

Prowess would give you an extra +1 attack if you wanted it as it works in shapeshifted forms.

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Zavandar
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:23 pm

So I've been testing a few things based on what you said.

You are correct on pretty much all accounts. With barkskin in a shield equipped, mage armor gives me +2.

Also, the +1 dodge on boots does not carry over into form, as you said.
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Lurch
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Lurch » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:59 pm

Wait, does Arelith support ability scores that are over 50? I thought that was something that was hard-coded into NWN, and would mean that your AC and AB would be 5 less than shown there.

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Lorkas
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Lorkas » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:03 pm

NWN can handle ability scores up to 255, I believe.

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Wytchee
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Wytchee » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:25 pm

My math got me to 47 AB and 68 AC though I used the +5 leather armor for this and took Armor Skin.

69 ( 8-) )with a potion of mage armor (dodge, the deflection, armor and natural won't stack).
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Zavandar
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:40 pm

Wytchee, your post in another thread is actually what inspired me to math things out. You'll be happy to learn that I'm not intending to make another lawful druid.

I'm curious about building, though. I have two prospective builds in the works:

Image

Then there's this:
Image

Which maths out to this:
Image

Let me guess--you mostly went the first variant and dropped epic prowess for imp crit?
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:09 am

Or was that 47 after nature sense? In which case no weapon focuses?
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Wytchee
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Wytchee » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:28 am

Zavandar wrote:Or was that 47 after nature sense? In which case no weapon focuses?
Weapon foci do not apply in polymorphed shapes. You're correct, it was Nature's Sense that bumped it up to 47. You're a druid, though, so you'll almost always be fighting somewhere wild.

Note also that (supposedly) Dragon Shape, while being nerfed, is having its requirement lowered to 25 wisdom, which means most druids can afford it. You might want to spare an epic feat for that. I'd suggest dropping epic prowess if Dragon Shape turns out to be worth it. It's just 1 AB.

Keep in mind this is reliant on whether or not the new Dragon Shape ends up having good AC. If not, going pure druid will not be a good idea, because any level 10 fighter will be able to keep your epic druid dragon shaper in perpetual knockdown. If you're not at all concerned with PvP, though (which you should be as a druid, like paladins we're prone to conflict), you can consider it. I am hoping however that, like the Earth Elemental, Dragon Shape will have some sort of counterplay versus knockdown spam (at least for pure druids).

Other than that your build looks solid. ESF: trans is a must have now that Aura of Vitality has been changed to turns/level, which really compliments your already overpowered elemental swarm.
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Zavandar
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:36 am

Really? Not even unarmed weapon focuses apply (that's what I was intended to get)? I could've sworn they did. I can confirm that they do apply on the PGCC, but I know that it's not 100% reliable.
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Lorkas » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:40 am

WF: unarmed strike applies in wild shape for a totem druid because they are mechanically unarmed (rather than fighting with a creature weapon). Elemental shapes have a creature weapon, though. The good news is that 47 AB is plenty.

I think I've read that Improved Critical: Unarmed strike applies to creature weapons even though WF does not.

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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:43 am

Well, the druid on the PGCC that I have is not totem, and weapon focuses are still applying in both animal form and elemental form. At least on the character sheet. The character sheet does say that I'm unarmed--not that I'm using creature weapons.
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Wytchee » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:44 am

Zavandar wrote:Well, the druid on the PGCC that I have is not totem, and weapon focuses are still applying in both animal form and elemental form. At least on the character sheet. The character sheet does say that I'm unarmed--not that I'm using creature weapons.
It will show as applying on your character sheet, this is true. If you check your combat logs, however, you'll notice all your attacks at -3 of what your character sheet reports.

In other words, you can't always trust your character sheet. :P
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:47 am

I'm disappointed but also relieved that I hadn't invested any feats yet to find out the hard way. Thanks for that.

Would you recommend taking knockdown? I know earth gets it for free, but I'd think that being able to use it in air would be nifty. Also, I have absolutely no idea what to use my skills for. I have too many, since everything is cross-classed.
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Wytchee » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:31 am

Zavandar wrote:I'm disappointed but also relieved that I hadn't invested any feats yet to find out the hard way. Thanks for that.

Would you recommend taking knockdown? I know earth gets it for free, but I'd think that being able to use it in air would be nifty. Also, I have absolutely no idea what to use my skills for. I have too many, since everything is cross-classed.
Dump 30 points (15) into tumble for +3 ac. Also useful with Air's dex mod. Heal is useful for companions. Concentration is a must.

32 points (16) into spot gets you a reasonable score with your wis mod.
32 points (16) into hide/ms is more than adequate while in air elemental form, especially if you've taken the +4 hide/ms gift and are in the wilderness. Don't neglect them.

Can reach 78 hide and 58 move silently with only 16 points in hide/ms if you gear smart. Remember that camo and mass camo stack.

16 + 25 dex mod + 4 gift + 4 wilderness + 20 camo + +4 OWTL + 5 gear (polymorphed) = 78 hide
Same for MS but without the camo.

Not going to fool a dedicated spotter but it's more than enough to skirt past the vast majority of non-ts mobs and most players (few people build for spot, no one builds for listen).

I can PM you Maedathenniel's build if you like.

Knockdown is definitely worth it.
Last edited by Wytchee on Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zavandar
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Re: Monolithic Air Shape Math

Post by Zavandar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:52 am

I'd love to see it.
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