Ranger type character questions

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Nalkanar
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Ranger type character questions

Post by Nalkanar » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:26 am

Hey all,
my friend would like to start playing here. But since he is not knowledgeable in builds and I'm not here long enough to make something great on my own I would like to ask for some building tips.

Idea is ranger, preferably archer with hips.
My issue with his idea is, that having hips means 21 ranger. That does not leave much room for other classes. If focused on archery and utilizing AA in the build, AA will get +5 arrows on max lvl (or hips at that lvl) which is I would say too late.

Also - is hips worth it? Even for player preferring PvE?

And if we abandon idea of archer, could you recommend some good ranger builds? I was thinking dex monk or strength WM.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions, tips and builds.

Astral
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Astral » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:45 pm

6 ranger, 5 rogue, 19 aa.

Hips effect on your stealth mode can be achieved by certain spells. (is that FoIG?)

Ranger in general is a very weak class mechanic-wise. It has a lot of utility but it's sub-par in it's combat capability. I'm not saying it cant be fun to play but it has it's flaws and it's flaws are all felt very well when the guy next to you is another warrior type class. Archers need a lot of AA lvls so HipS would simply be a bad investment here.
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CoastalSurf
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by CoastalSurf » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:01 pm

With the new AI changes I might consider going ranger/SD/AA with HiPS. Being able to reset what is chasing you swiftly and without a large investment in expendables has become more important than ever for archers.

If your friend is new to NwN though, I would try and turn them away from an archer at this point in time. They are not in a great place. I would instead point them towards a more melee focused ranger that sometimes uses a bow

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Commie
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Commie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:16 pm

Not to mention the inventory management issues.

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Commissar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Commissar » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:23 am

If your friend's interested in the all-roundness of rangers, then there's a fairly functional build you can do that'll let you keep all of the usual ranger trinkets and be a passable archer as well. It's still predominantly melee; but your ability to make arrows will win you friends with all the dedicated archers. You'll still be strictly worse than a WM, but you do get the ranger goodies (including animal empathy), which is a nice trade-off.

I've gone ahead and shot you a PM with it.
May you live in interesting times.
Manticore, on Sun Elves wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the racism is like a mating ritual or something. Like plumes on birds.

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Baron Saturday
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:10 am

Keep in mind that rangers have access to some really nice crafted items, specifically the Ranger's Runic Studded Leather and the Elder Dream spear, though thanks to the high crafting DCs you'll only be able to make one of them yourself.
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Commissar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Commissar » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:14 am

Wow, that spear's neat. I forgot about that.
May you live in interesting times.
Manticore, on Sun Elves wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the racism is like a mating ritual or something. Like plumes on birds.

Nalkanar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Nalkanar » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:11 am

My friend is quite experienced, just doesn't have the overview and maybe will to make builds.

But it sounds that archer is not that good, but maybe utilizing just some lvls of it with focus on dualwield might do decent job. Good to know.

Comissar - would you share the build? At least the classes used?

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Commissar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Commissar » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 am

Hi Nalk,

Sorry, PM didn't seem to go. I've posted the message here, instead - so ignore it if it rocks up in your inbox again!

It's a single-weapon ranger, which means you can wear armour without it hurting you - having a bit of AC from medium armour earlier on makes surviving a little easier. You'll have a ready supply of damask arrows - which are otherwise a nightmare to make, and with them and the +3 to ranged damage you pick up from the archer path, your damage with a bow'll be acceptable, if not outstanding.

I only mention the archer path here because you said your friend was interested in being able to have some additional play with ranged weapons. Usually it's the flexibility of that ability to switch from dual-wield to sword-and-shield that makes ranger useful, and you do lose that going for archer. Ranged combat in general is a nuisance in NWN - shooting an enemy will make them instantly want to claw your face off, even if you've got an ally standing right in front of them. Others might differ, but I've found playing archers (particularly alone) to be an exercise in frustration. Just something to keep in mind.

Normally, your best primary weapon'll be a rapier or a scimitar - though feel free to deviate.

Alternately, if your friend want a more traditional dual-wield ranger, just drop the archer path out and make sure to use a small/tiny weapon. You'll have some AC teething problems until you get ranger leathers, but it's doable with buddies.

Either way, this'll get you the ability to turn empathied animals into companions all the way through, in addition to Bane of Enemies and Hide in Plain Sight. You won't be a powerhouse in combat, but you'll be survivable and flexible (as you've noted, there's some capable builds that can be made as monk/ranger; but I'm not quite sure how to structure them).

Initial Stats:
15 STR (+2 Gift, for 17 on creation. Put all points on level-up in here.)
12 DEX
14 CON (+2 Gift, for 16 on creation)
14 INT
14 WIS
8 CHA
Path of the Archer

(I'd also advise taking the crafting gift and going down the tailoring track - it'll make it easier to make that sweet, sweet ranger leather. This build doesn't need it quite so much if you go down the single-weapon track, but it's a godsend for dual-wield rangers).

Build:
1Rgr1 Weapon Focus + Favoured Enemy
2Rgr2
3Rgr3 Expertise
4Rgr4
5Rgr5 Favoured Enemy
6Rgr6 Improved Expertise
7Rgr7
8Rgr8
9Rgr9 Improved Critical
10Rgr10 Favoured Enemy
11Rgr11
12Rgr12 Blind fight
13Rgr13
14Rgr14
15Rgr15 Knockdown + Favoured Enemy
16Rgr16
17Rgr17
18Rgr18 Toughness
19Rgr19
20Rgr20 Favoured Enemy
21Rgr21 Bane of Enemies
22Ftr1 Epic weapon focus
23Ftr2 Armour skin
24Ftr3 Epic skill focus discipline
25Rgr22
26Rgr23 Epic prowess
27Ftr4 Weapon specialisation, Epic weapon specialisation
28Bard1 (Dump skillpoints in tumble [30], spellcraft [30] and use magic device [16, if you just want to use scrolls, wands, and potions] here.)
29Bard2
30Bard3 Choice - Likely Epic Skill Focus.

If you're looking for PvP, you'll want these favoured enemies:
Halfling, Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-Orc

Otherwise, you're welcome to swap them around a bit to match whatever you're aiming at.

Hope that helps some!
May you live in interesting times.
Manticore, on Sun Elves wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the racism is like a mating ritual or something. Like plumes on birds.

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greatfanfare
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by greatfanfare » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:21 am

To solo as an archer:

Wand of Shadow Conjuraton: Long lasting darkness, long lasting mage armor, emergency shadow summon, invis... seems some people are getting the hint and stocking them in their shops lately.

Wand of Ultravision: Self explanatory.

Scrolls of elementals, the summon lasts a long time, if water you don't have to spend healing on it

And that's it, if AA you can use bronze arrows (a lot faster to make and enchantable in the basin), if not, Damask arrows, so plan for it on taking crafting points/ranger build.

Just with those, you can get to epic lvl soloing... but if there's a handy meatshield who can -guard you, all the better, learning the correct distance so the -guard works AND you don't take AOOs from the stuff your meatshield is holding is a matter of trial and error.

You get to deal huge amounts of damage without being hit, wipe mages out without getting hit with spells, clean mobs on cliffs *coughfrostgiantscough* or other places *coughbloodyerinyesatbridgecough*...

Yeah, an archer specialist can't do everything by him/her/they/zeself, but it's a damn useful char to have along... and rogue levels on smart archers also give open lock and disable trap.

Nalkanar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Nalkanar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:43 pm

Thank you for the tips.
Commissar - yep, PM arrived later, so I ignored it.
greatfanfare - thank you as well, I will be most likely playing with my friend most of the time, so -guarding buddy will be available. :)


Arrows creation works as regular craft? So resources gathered and DC rolled?

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Commissar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Commissar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:11 pm

Rangers with the archer path can make one bundle (which you can split into a number of 99 arrow stacks. I forget how many.) of arrows per rest without resources or any sort of roll - it's granted as a class ability. They make iron arrows at level 1, steel at level 5, and damask from level 10 onwards. Given how many arrows archers can chew through I've found it to be a real sanity-saver.

Everyone else'll have to craft them. The recipes are here, and you'll effectively need to be a smith if you want to make them all by your lonesome. Carpenters can make them too, but you'll still need someone to make the arrowheads, if you're going that route.

If you're planning on playing an archer it's also worth reading the paragraph on arrow essence-ing on the wiki, to get the most of them.
May you live in interesting times.
Manticore, on Sun Elves wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the racism is like a mating ritual or something. Like plumes on birds.

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greatfanfare
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by greatfanfare » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:07 pm

Everything depends on how easily you can craft/have someone else craft temporal essences, and an enchanter.

If you get AA levels, unless you take the ranger archer path, crafting damask arrows it's a waste of time.

The chance of enchanting 1d4 damage on a bundle of bronze arrows in the basin is 85%, without any focus in enchantment.

The forging DC for the bronze ingot required it's 12 and 2 crafting points, crafting the bundle it's DC1 and 1 crating point. So... it's easy to make, you can take the forging or convince an smith to make them since it doesn't require a large time investment.

An enchanter can put TWO 1d4 damages on a bronze bundle with ease, add a temporal essence before splitting and you have arrows with THREE damages, and when you equip the arrows, you can put on another temporal essence, so for big baddies that require a lot of hitting, you go with FOUR essence damage per arrow shot.

The other way, using damask bundles, those can't be enchanted, you can use a permanent and a temporal essence before splitting, so you are going to need alchemy anyway.

The 3 piercing damage from the damask arrow it's going to be resisted by a lot of npcs with DR once you are around lvl15-20.

Those are the options, the easiest one is Archer path, less essence damage, but free damask arrows.

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Peppermint
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Peppermint » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:27 pm

Archers are strong, but an absolute pain to play on Arelith due to a combination of arrow crafting and wonky AI.

Ask your friend if he enjoys gouging his fingers with rusty nails. If so, he may enjoy playing an archer.

Nalkanar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Nalkanar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:12 pm

Also, why go archer path with ranger, when I can save 2 feats in sniper path? I can always buy simple ammo, as an AA it should kill regular creeps easily. Can normal arrows (those from NPCs) be enchanted as explained here? Two elements and such?

Kirito
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Kirito » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Nalkanar wrote:Also, why go archer path with ranger, when I can save 2 feats in sniper path? I can always buy simple ammo, as an AA it should kill regular creeps easily. Can normal arrows (those from NPCs) be enchanted as explained here? Two elements and such?
You need to essence bundles to make it worthwhile... and you get through A LOT of arrows as an arcane archer, if you want to go the essenced bundle route then you are going to either be permanently short of craft points, or short of good arrows... or both

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Commissar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Commissar » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:13 am

Exactly, Kirito's got it. Besides, if you're playing an AA, it's not as if you've got any other feats that would be a huge aid to your build in those early levels anyway - might as well spend them on point blank shot and rapid shot regardless.
May you live in interesting times.
Manticore, on Sun Elves wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure the racism is like a mating ritual or something. Like plumes on birds.

Nalkanar
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Nalkanar » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:16 pm

One more question - from what I found on wiki it seems there are only 4 types of longbow. Is that true?

Kirito
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Re: Ranger type character questions

Post by Kirito » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:49 pm

Nalkanar wrote:One more question - from what I found on wiki it seems there are only 4 types of longbow. Is that true?
craftable, yes

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