Warlock questions

[Smelyansky]

Hey all. I'm a druid player already thinking of another character to play. I looked in and read into warlock. I just had some questions. How should I build it? What starting stats would I need? What feats are essential? How survivable is it? How good is warlock in PvP end game? How is leveling with them 1-30? Should I go fey or fiend? Sorry for all the questions, I was just really intrigued with the class.

[Baron Saturday]

Take a look at this thread, which talks a bit about warlocks. There's a link in the first post to an old but still relevant build.

Warlocks are basically tanky ranged DPS with relatively few weaknesses. Fiend and fey are both very capable. Feylocks tend to be harder to level early on, but shine in late game PvE and PvP, while Fiendlocks will breeze through most PvE content thanks to their summons, but are less powerful - though still quite good - in PvP against someone who knows how to counter their summon.

Fiendlocks also have more lore to support them, for both devil and demon variants. There's really not that much info about Unseelie fey in the Forgotten Realms, which can be a blessing or a curse, as it does allow for more creative freedom on your part.

[Smelyansky]

Take a look at this thread, which talks a bit about warlocks. There's a link in the first post to an old but still relevant build.

Warlocks are basically tanky ranged DPS with relatively few weaknesses. Fiend and fey are both very capable. Feylocks tend to be harder to level early on, but shine in late game PvE and PvP, while Fiendlocks will breeze through most PvE content thanks to their summons, but are less powerful - though still quite good - in PvP against someone who knows how to counter their summon.

Fiendlocks also have more lore to support them, for both devil and demon variants. There's really not that much info about Unseelie fey in the Forgotten Realms, which can be a blessing or a curse, as it does allow for more creative freedom on your part.

What makes Feylocks better?

[liver and bones]

Take a look at this thread, which talks a bit about warlocks. There's a link in the first post to an old but still relevant build.

Warlocks are basically tanky ranged DPS with relatively few weaknesses. Fiend and fey are both very capable. Feylocks tend to be harder to level early on, but shine in late game PvE and PvP, while Fiendlocks will breeze through most PvE content thanks to their summons, but are less powerful - though still quite good - in PvP against someone who knows how to counter their summon.

Fiendlocks also have more lore to support them, for both devil and demon variants. There's really not that much info about Unseelie fey in the Forgotten Realms, which can be a blessing or a curse, as it does allow for more creative freedom on your part.

What makes Feylocks better?

I assume primarily for the unlimited haste affect. The ability to throw down 2x more DPS via spells than a fiendlock 24/7 is definitely strong. Then I would say unlimited dirge then shadow shield then ghostly visage helps a bunch.

[Smelyansky]

Take a look at this thread, which talks a bit about warlocks. There's a link in the first post to an old but still relevant build.

Warlocks are basically tanky ranged DPS with relatively few weaknesses. Fiend and fey are both very capable. Feylocks tend to be harder to level early on, but shine in late game PvE and PvP, while Fiendlocks will breeze through most PvE content thanks to their summons, but are less powerful - though still quite good - in PvP against someone who knows how to counter their summon.

Fiendlocks also have more lore to support them, for both devil and demon variants. There's really not that much info about Unseelie fey in the Forgotten Realms, which can be a blessing or a curse, as it does allow for more creative freedom on your part.

What makes Feylocks better?

I assume primarily for the unlimited haste affect. The ability to throw down 2x more DPS via spells than a fiendlock 24/7 is definitely strong. Then I would say unlimited dirge then shadow shield then ghostly visage helps a bunch.

This sounds useful. But dont fiendlocks do way more damage because they have ice storm spam?

[hoshi]

A fiendlock will tend to grab quicken spell and can eldritch blast 2x a round with flare or whatever. With haste from a wand/potion/friend they can spam ice storm instead. Then add in their summon on top.

A feylock can spam save-or-lose spells that if the other person isn't immune to can eventually fail a save. Even if they never do they're eating eldritch blast damage. They used to do full blast damage on their CC abilities and have access to Mass Haste, now doing CC they only do okay damage and can no longer haste an entire party.

Even a badly played fiendlock is going to be at least decent, I recommend it over feylock unless you loved enchanters from Everquest/Vanguard or something. I'm not saying a feylock can't be powerful, but I'd recommend fiendlock over feylock if you're newer to the server.

[Lurch]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're willing to sacrifice shadow shield on a feylock, you could take 3 levels of monk for monk speed, which at least in vanilla NWN, unlocks your movespeed cap to 300% + monk speed bonus (10% in this case). All other characters are limited to 150%.

Why would that be useful? Well, Expeditious retreat stacks with itself (in vanilla at least) and you can easily gain that speed with a couple casts, which makes you run circles around everything except other builds that use this trick. Only downside is that expeditious retreat doesn't work when haste is used, so you wouldn't attack any faster.

EDIT: An arcane caster can get mass haste as well, which does stack with expeditious retreat (in vanilla) so you get the best of both worlds as a monk + bard or wizard or sorcerer

[Baron Saturday]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're willing to sacrifice shadow shield on a feylock, you could take 3 levels of monk for monk speed, which at least in vanilla NWN, unlocks your movespeed cap to 300% + monk speed bonus (10% in this case). All other characters are limited to 150%.

Why would that be useful? Well, Expeditious retreat stacks with itself (in vanilla at least) and you can easily gain that speed with a couple casts, which makes you run circles around everything except other builds that use this trick. Only downside is that expeditious retreat doesn't work when haste is used, so you wouldn't attack any faster.

EDIT: An arcane caster can get mass haste as well, which does stack with expeditious retreat (in vanilla) so you get the best of both worlds as a monk + bard or wizard or sorcerer

I can't speak to the mechanics of speedtanking, because I haven't really messed with it that much. You could make a feylock monk, though important to note that what you are giving up for that uncapped speed is:
5% Physical Immunity
10/- Cold & Electrical DR
Shadow Shield
1d6+1 Eldritch Blast damage
So you're sacrificing one defensive method for another. I also have no idea how one would RP a feylock monk.

And I do agree with hoshi that fiendlock is friendlier to a less experienced player.

[Aero Silver]

Is it possible to squeeze SF: Divination in one of the two GitGud builds?

[Baron Saturday]

Is it possible to squeeze SF: Divination in one of the two GitGud builds?

Easily, yeah. If you look, both of them have at least one "bonus feat" listed.

[Improv]

Are CON feylocks still the only or best way to go? I was under the impression when they were changed a few months ago and people were rebuilding it was because CHA was now in favor.

[Wytchee]

Are CON feylocks still the only or best way to go? I was under the impression when they were changed a few months ago and people were rebuilding it was because CHA was now in favor.

Feylocks gain shadow shield which is a decent 10/+5 (edit 10/+3) which is comparable to EDR III against anything (most things) in PvE.

EDIT: oops it's 10/+3 which is, frankly, very bad. Yeah, conlocks remain the standard. :<

As far as I know, though, the 9/- from EDR III stacks with the 10/+3 from shadow shield so yeah... con builds remain the standard, even for feylocks.

If I were to make a feylock, though, I'd focus cha.

Unlike fiendlocks, feylocks can get respectable AC, especially if dex-based. So it might be useful to go dex based for AC and hide/ms (infinite invisibility can function as HiPS in most scenarios).

[Baron Saturday]

Gather 'round, children. Let us theorycraft a maxed-out DClock.

We'll start with a parrot totem fey, TN, for the first three levels, followed by 27 levels of feylock. That nets us a starting charisma of 26. 7 more charisma from levels, and let's say 3 from epic feats, tack on equipment and buffs for a final score of 48 charisma, providing a modifier of +19. Another +4 to DC from SF/GSF enchantment for a base DC of 33, and a Hold Monster DC of 37. Which is actually reasonably good!

But you've gotta jump through some crazy hoops to get there. Most charisma-focused warlocks will see their DCs cap out in the low 30s, which will quickly become problematic when fighting epic monsters with saves of 30+ across the board (I'm lookin' at YOU, bloody duergar...). Combined with the fact that the highest DC spells no longer do full damage, which makes fishing for 1s a less than appealing prospect, means I think playing a DClock up to 30 could become very frustrating.

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept. My first warlock was DC-based, and I enjoyed her to pieces, but she was starting to struggle in PvE by level 23 or so.

Conlock is still the "meta" build, though it pains me to say it. The change from flat damage reduction to percentage damage immunity didn't hurt a warlock's ability to tank that badly - they take a bit more damage from sources that hit in the 20-50 range, roughly the same for 50-100, and slightly less from those massive 100+ damage crits. (Those are rough guesses - I did the math at some point, but can't be bothered to find it.)

EDIT: That said, as long as you aren't bothered about being optimal and winning all the PvP, and don't mind needing to travel with a party in epic dungeons, warlock is actually an extremely forgiving class when it comes to builds. The awesome summon of Fiendlocks and infinite haste of Feylocks means that no matter how you build, you're going to have a decent amount of power at your disposal, and can make a significant contribution in any fight. Just make sure you take blind fight and have 16 charisma. And Fiendlocks should have quicken spell.

[hoshi]

Shadow mage for +2 more DC to enchantment depending upon how it is implemented.

[Baron Saturday]

Shadow mage for +2 more DC to enchantment depending upon how it is implemented.

Hadn't thought of that! You lose flare, but as a feylock could still spam slow, sleep, or Tasha's for damage.

[TimeAdept]

As far as I know, though, the 9/- from EDR III stacks with the 10/+3 from shadow shield so yeah... con builds remain the standard, even for feylocks.

This isn't true - or rather, it works, but not like you might expect. EDR is coded as X/+21 DR, where X is 3/6/9 depending on yuor level of the feat. If you have EDR3, you effectively have 9/+21 DR. The 10/+3 will "stack" in that it will still absorb 10, but you won't absorb 19. Same for stoneskin - you'll absorb 10 until it wears off, then go back to absorbing 9.
Barbarian and DwD DR feats are coded the same way, as stacking X/+21 DR. So it's actually possible to get innate DR high enough to where normal Stoneskin no longer does anything beneficial for the character.

Damage Resistance and Damage Immunity will still stack by all their normal rules, as well. but once you have EDR3, for example, Ghostly Visage isn't doing you any favors, damage reduction wise.