Best Paladin Build?

[Enthor]

Really looking for something I'm gonna enjoy slaying evil with!

[Pavor Nocturnus]

23pal/4fighter/3rogue

Take abj. foci and the required basic melee feats.

You will hardly be able to dispel pure casters with holy sword, but players who are not idiots will dip anyway. Fighting a 26caster/4dip with this build will result in a 15% chance of dispelling on hit.

[Enthor]

4 fighter pre-epic?

[Pavor Nocturnus]

No. You want Epic Weapon Specialization.

[Enthor]

Copy that.

[Wytchee]

You will hardly be able to dispel pure casters with holy sword, but players who are not idiots will dip anyway.

Damn, guess I'm an idiot.

[yellowcateyes]

15% chance of dispelling on hit.

With GSF Abjuration on a Holy Sword, the chances should be about 35% per buff on hit, against a CL 26 caster. Against CL 30, it's 15%.

[Baron Saturday]

You will hardly be able to dispel pure casters with holy sword, but players who are not idiots will dip anyway.

Damn, guess I'm an idiot.

Yeah, let's avoid lobbing insults (even generalized ones) over peoples' build choices. Remember that mechanical optimization is fun, but it isn't everyone's goal.

[flower]

You must hit first.

[Cortex]

You must hit first.

Shouldn't be too difficult at around 54 AB.

[Pavor Nocturnus]

You will hardly be able to dispel pure casters with holy sword, but players who are not idiots will dip anyway.

Damn, guess I'm an idiot.

Yeah, let's avoid lobbing insults (even generalized ones) over peoples' build choices. Remember that mechanical optimization is fun, but it isn't everyone's goal.

Apologies. Thought I had edited that. Inappropriate of me, indeed.

15% chance of dispelling on hit.

With GSF Abjuration on a Holy Sword, the chances should be about 35% per buff on hit, against a CL 26 caster. Against CL 30, it's 15%.

I thought it worked like this:

1d20 + 20 (paladin levels) + 4 (abj. foci) vs. 12 + 26 (caster level)
1d20 + 24 vs. 38
So any roll from 14 to 20 beats the DC, which translates to a 3 out of 10 chance to dispel.
It is a 50% chance for the actual dispel attempt to trigger, so that is 1/2 x 3/10 = 15%. Provided you beat someone's AC, and inflict physical damage.

[yellowcateyes]

1d20 + 20 (paladin levels) + 4 (abj. foci) vs. 12 + 26 (caster level)
1d20 + 24 vs. 38
So any roll from 14 to 20 beats the DC, which translates to a 3 out of 10 chance to dispel.

35% specifically, since ties go to the Dispel. Rolls of 14-20 constitute 7 of 20 possibilities. Otherwise we're agreed on this point.

It is a 50% chance for the actual dispel attempt to trigger, so that is 1/2 x 3/10 = 15%. Provided you beat someone's AC, and inflict physical damage.

The 50% trigger and physical damage requirements are no longer present, since the new spell uses a custom on-hit effect and not the old Holy Avenger function (which was hardcoded). Hopefully that clears up some confusion.

[Pavor Nocturnus]

Ah, yes. Of course, my bad. Sweet, though. Albeit a tad too powerful, perhaps?

Does the new holy avenger effect still dispel extraordinary effects?

If yes, would it be able dispel Arelith's version of barbarian rage?

[yellowcateyes]

Ah, yes. of course, my bad. Sweet, though. Albeit a tad too powerful, perhaps?

Does the new holy avenger effect still dispel extraordinary effects?

If yes, would it be able dispel Arelith's version of barbarian rage?

It no longer affects extraordinary effects. So things like Petrify, Rage, etc. should properly go unaffected by Holy Sword.

If dedicated paladins end up too powerful, send in feedback to that effect! Balance adjustments aren't out of the question if the first iteration is askew.

[Peppermint]

Holy Sword is one of the things we're definitely keeping an eye on. We've already got some ways to rework the spell in mind should it prove necessary.

[Bashagain]

1. Dispeladin: Paladin 21, rogue 4, fighter 5 should give you the best dispeladin.
2. Smiteradin: Paladin 16, CoT 10, rogue 4 should give you he best smiteradin.

Dispeladin path should give you the max dispel capability after spending two spell focus feats, plus +3 wisdom bonus (just use an +1 item to get 6 spell slots for all your spells). Fighter bonus feats progresses in odd class levels while CoT bonus feats progress in even class levels. 5 fighter should give you fighter’s +1 armor bonus as well. Yes, you get +6 epic specialization Damage.

Smiteradin path should give you the usual scalable Great Smite up to Great Smite 9 which should give you up to 260 extra Smite evil damage with a single hit. Redistribute your Smite feats if you want to have your Paladin be somewhere between a Dispeladin and a Smiteradin, resulting in a Versatiladin.

Happy goodytwoshoeing!

[Bashagain]

Holy Sword is one of the things we're definitely keeping an eye on. We've already got some ways to rework the spell in mind should it prove necessary.

Holy sword dispelling is not a single-hit dispel. It’s akin to mordenkainen’s disjunction spam given the High AB that a paladin can attain. In about 3 months we should see the result of this update... My guess is that it’ll take us to dispel effectiveness close to the pre 1.69 update 12 some years ago.

[Pavor Nocturnus]

1. Dispeladin: Paladin 21, rogue 4, fighter 5 should give you the best dispeladin.

4th rogue level gives you nothing besides an earlier skilldump, slightly more skillpoints and less hit points. Might as well take a sixth fighter level for the extra bonus feat, if you insist on keeping it at 21 paladin levels. You need the feats.

And because level 23 paladin gets a bonus feat as well, going 23paladin/4fighter vs. 21paladin/6fighter makes no difference, feat-wise, skill point-wise or hit point-wise.

However, because a level 23 paladin receives an extra 1 sonic damage from deafening clang and is harder to dispel than a level 21 paladin, 23paladin/4fighter/3rogue is, in theory, still better than 21paladin/4rogue/5fighter or 21paladin/3rogue/6fighter.

[Hunter548]

23 paladin/4 fighter/3 rogue gives you more dispel resistance and +1 damage on deafening clang. 21 paladin/6 fighter/3 rogue is also possible, gets +1 AC, and gets weapon spec earlier. Both are viable, though I personally prefer the former.

[Pavor Nocturnus]

23 paladin/4 fighter/3 rogue gives you more dispel resistance and +1 damage on deafening clang. 21 paladin/6 fighter/3 rogue is also possible, gets +1 AC, and gets weapon spec earlier. Both are viable, though I personally prefer the former.

Ah, right. Arelith's fighter changes. My bad. Still, I'd pick the 2 extra caster levels for dispel resistance over 1 AC, because 21 levels for dispel resistance is on the low side.

Edit: Forgot they do get +3 CL to dispel resistance at 21, so that actually turns it into 24 vs. 26.

Edit 2: So say you're a level 23 paladin fighting a level 26 wizard casting Mord's. That results in:

1d20 + 26 vs. DC 38

This means that the caster would have to roll a 12 or higher to pass the check, which means 9 out of 20 times he'll succeed, which is 45%. That is really high. Assuming this build (https://pastebin.com/EgqhtYGN) by dejapes, I would maybe even consider squeezing Arcane Defense in there to replace Improved Critical/ESF: Discipline/Epic Prowess to lower it to 30%. Not sure.

[Astral]

Arcane defense would lower it from 45% to 35%, not 30% since it's +2 vs dispels. You do not want to miss imp crit for this. The beauty about full bab classes is that they don't get massively crippled by dispels. However, they get massively crippled by not having imp crit and a minimum of 65 discipline. Worth keeping that in mind.

[Bashagain]

1. Dispeladin: Paladin 21, rogue 4, fighter 5 should give you the best dispeladin.

...sixth fighter level for the extra bonus feat...

5 levels in fighter gives you same number of feats as 6 levels in fighter. You get 3 bonus feats.

Unlike Champion of Torm that gives you bonus feats on EVEN number of levels, Fighter class gives you bonus feat on ODD number of levels. Level 1, 3, 5 gives you an extra feat.

The extra rogue level should give you enough of skill dump to supplement your skill hungry fighter for either Discipline, taunt, UMD, or heal. Extra fighter or Paladin level wouldn’t give you any other bonus aside from the extra 4 hp.

[Cortex]

At class level 1 and at every even level afterwards (2, 4, 6, ...), a fighter gains a bonus feat, chosen from a subset of the entire feat list.

[Scurvy Cur]

This is your brain.



This is your brain on memes.

1. Dispeladin: Paladin 21, rogue 4, fighter 5 should give you the best dispeladin.

...sixth fighter level for the extra bonus feat...

5 levels in fighter gives you same number of feats as 6 levels in fighter. You get 3 bonus feats.

Unlike Champion of Torm that gives you bonus feats on EVEN number of levels, Fighter class gives you bonus feat on ODD number of levels. Level 1, 3, 5 gives you an extra feat.

The extra rogue level should give you enough of skill dump to supplement your skill hungry fighter for either Discipline, taunt, UMD, or heal. Extra fighter or Paladin level wouldn’t give you any other bonus aside from the extra 4 hp.

Don't do memes kids.

[gilescorey]

writing IC story raps is the deadliest neurotoxin known to man