New Spellsword Building Thread
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
That's because you're doing it wrong. You toss the offhand kama in the trash, because it's not worth 3 feats, 4 AC, and 2 AB; you also don't use an m.dam.
Zav's numbers are more or less correct for that build, but you can get the wis ac a little higher by plundering con (iirc you come out in the low 400s HP, which is a touch thin, but also not the end of the world). My quick hash of the math last night on a 23 ss/4 fighter/3 monk got:
44 AB
68-69 AC prior to expertise.
37ish damage a hit (however, you're probably also picking up about a 7d4 proc of either neg or acid. so it looks like 52 or so damage a hit).
DC on the imbues will be 37, target won't get spellcraft on the save.
Imbues run are most likely fire/neg in pve, fire/acid in pvp.
For tricky situations, you drop a blackstaff, and each hit forces a dc 34-35 will save with no spellcraft factored in to avoid an elemental damage amp. After a little a round of getting chewed on by this, the target is taking, depending on rolls, likely something between 30 and 80% increased elemental damage.
You sac UMD for it, and that's a legitimate concern, but not the end of the world.
Solutions that come to mind here are:
Restrict imbue procs to 1/flurry, rewarding higher dc over fishing for a ton of rolls.
Restrict the shield AC in circumstances where a monk weapon of any sort is equipped.
Zav's numbers are more or less correct for that build, but you can get the wis ac a little higher by plundering con (iirc you come out in the low 400s HP, which is a touch thin, but also not the end of the world). My quick hash of the math last night on a 23 ss/4 fighter/3 monk got:
44 AB
68-69 AC prior to expertise.
37ish damage a hit (however, you're probably also picking up about a 7d4 proc of either neg or acid. so it looks like 52 or so damage a hit).
DC on the imbues will be 37, target won't get spellcraft on the save.
Imbues run are most likely fire/neg in pve, fire/acid in pvp.
For tricky situations, you drop a blackstaff, and each hit forces a dc 34-35 will save with no spellcraft factored in to avoid an elemental damage amp. After a little a round of getting chewed on by this, the target is taking, depending on rolls, likely something between 30 and 80% increased elemental damage.
You sac UMD for it, and that's a legitimate concern, but not the end of the world.
Solutions that come to mind here are:
Restrict imbue procs to 1/flurry, rewarding higher dc over fishing for a ton of rolls.
Restrict the shield AC in circumstances where a monk weapon of any sort is equipped.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Yeah, the double-kama one was more of a 'how far can this get pushed' but having tried playing a dual-wielding spellsword already, I wouldn't recommend it at all.
I don't much like the flurry restriction ideas (maybe only when using a kama/qstaff?) and the monk weapon ac restriction doesn't so much fix that you can take monk on any spellsword for +6 (minimum) AC and then use a rapier, but I guess that applies to any unarmored character,
I don't much like the flurry restriction ideas (maybe only when using a kama/qstaff?) and the monk weapon ac restriction doesn't so much fix that you can take monk on any spellsword for +6 (minimum) AC and then use a rapier, but I guess that applies to any unarmored character,
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Yeah, and apparently we already have some epic level spellswords that are rapier monk spellswords, and Kirito doesn't want to cut their legs off, which I can sympathize with.
Flurry restriction 100% needs to happen though.
Flurry restriction 100% needs to happen though.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
So what's the best lvl progression for 23/4/3? Do you take monk lvls pre-epic? 12 SS lvls pre-epic feels like it's gonna be too hard to level up doesnt it?
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
You definitely don't take monk pre-epic. You take the 4 fighter levels pre epic to secure AB, since that's more important than damage anyhow. You probably need to buy exotic prof somewhere in there, but iirc, the 16 wiz/4 fighter pre epic spread covers you pretty well for feats.
Monk comes in at the end. You level basically like a regular dex spellsword until epics.
Monk comes in at the end. You level basically like a regular dex spellsword until epics.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I think limiting procs w/ flurries isn't a bad idea, but maybe limit it to two procs a flurry? This way, "traditional" spellswords aren't affected. I'll readily admit my bias, though--I have an epic spellsword myself.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Also, yes--I can think of a 23/4/3 variant that grabs epic prowess and +1 spellsword AB from 23. It actually works out perfectly. Can't make it until I am home.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
There's no bonus ab for the path anymore. the bonus was added directly to the bab and thus, in epics it doesnt exist.Zavandar wrote:Also, yes--I can think of a 23/4/3 variant that grabs epic prowess and +1 spellsword AB from 23. It actually works out perfectly. Can't make it until I am home.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
As of last check, the 23/27 bonus AB is still functioning.Astral wrote:There's no bonus ab for the path anymore. the bonus was added directly to the bab and thus, in epics it doesnt exist.Zavandar wrote:Also, yes--I can think of a 23/4/3 variant that grabs epic prowess and +1 spellsword AB from 23. It actually works out perfectly. Can't make it until I am home.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Just those two though, yea?
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Yeah, rest have been folded into class BAB. I'll double check later, because it is kind of a big deal, but that's my current understanding of things.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
So, just throwing a question out here because I don't feel creating an entirely new thread for it would make sense. It's also off topic from the current round of discussion, but it is still relating to Spellswords.
Is carrying a shield (Addy Tower Shield) going to be better than leaving the off-hand empty? It's been a long time since I've used a Tower Shield, and I'm not sure if the AC gained from having your off-hand empty balances out against it especially considering you gain a boost to AB from it.
Is carrying a shield (Addy Tower Shield) going to be better than leaving the off-hand empty? It's been a long time since I've used a Tower Shield, and I'm not sure if the AC gained from having your off-hand empty balances out against it especially considering you gain a boost to AB from it.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
The addy tower is gonna be 1-2 more AC for most spellswords. It's situationally useful to have one, but it can kinda be a pain to toggle it on the fly. I'd personally carry one though.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Yes, I would carry a tower shield and a bronze full plate chest for those instances where you really just need ac (namely group pve). It's 4 more altogether than 6/1 greensteel and 4 ss off-hand ac.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Can you please teel me when did you test this, I tested it around a month a go and I am pretty sure the save included spellcraft.DC on the imbues will be 37, target won't get spellcraft on the save.
Meaning it is no longer a magical bonus, but a standard 3/4 BaB ab?Yeah, rest have been folded into class BAB
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Yes. Except that you still get the bonus in epics, for now.dallion43 wrote: Meaning it is no longer a magical bonus, but a standard 3/4 BaB ab?
So Bob takes 16 wizard pre epic, he gets 12 bab from them, and then he goes 4 fighter and gets to 16 bab at lvl 20. Then Bob takes 7 more wizard lvls and gets +2 ab (that does count to the cap, unlike the bab) that shouldnt exist.
Another question. What's a secondary greater spell focus (the first being abjuration) you'd take on a spellsword? I got 2 free feats at lvl 1 JUST for that.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Trans, trans, trans.
You want to max str/dex, con and int. And on top of this, blackstaff is pretty much -for- spellswords, and it's a transmute spell.
You want to max str/dex, con and int. And on top of this, blackstaff is pretty much -for- spellswords, and it's a transmute spell.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Okay, interesting. I might not have enough feats for epic spell focus though. Also, what does blackstaff do exactly? I think the wiki is up to date on that one. Does it have any scaling with transmute focus?Zavandar wrote:Trans, trans, trans.
You want to max str/dex, con and int. And on top of this, blackstaff is pretty much -for- spellswords, and it's a transmute spell.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
It applies a stacking vulnerability to magical and elemental damage. 5% for magical, 10% for the other elements, capping at 50%/100% respectively. Duration is 6 rounds, but is refreshed each time it procs.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Last night.dallion43 wrote:Can you please teel me when did you test this, I tested it around a month a go and I am pretty sure the save included spellcraft.DC on the imbues will be 37, target won't get spellcraft on the save.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
It's a will save that ignores spell craft and the DC is increased via transmute focuses.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Alrighty. After mulling it over for a bit and talking to some people, I believe that this is the best monk variant there is:
Works with most other races, as they can just drop arcane defense: abjuration.
I think the math can speak for itself. This build seems a little bit on the super strong side..
Works with most other races, as they can just drop arcane defense: abjuration.
I think the math can speak for itself. This build seems a little bit on the super strong side..
Last edited by Zavandar on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
And the more "traditional" variant here:
This build works great as a human, and also as a dwarf/duergar. Dwarves effectively have exotic through free dwarven waraxe feats. Regular elves not so much because their dex isn't that useful, but sun elves can work.
This build works great as a human, and also as a dwarf/duergar. Dwarves effectively have exotic through free dwarven waraxe feats. Regular elves not so much because their dex isn't that useful, but sun elves can work.
Intelligence is too important
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I'm not a huge fan of losing epic spec but you're almost certainly correct.The only other option is to lose a wizard level (and two feats), or two wizard levels and 1 feat.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I think that if this change achieved anything, it discourages spellswords from getting weapon specs.
Intelligence is too important