New Spellsword Building Thread

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Maladus
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Maladus » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:03 pm

Wytchee wrote:
Maladus wrote:For non-human builds, dropping that feat and dealing with the annoyance may be worth it.
Make scrolls. I managed just fine.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. If you are planning a non-human Spellsword, you can skip on taking Still Spell in the Greensteel builds because you only have to deal with it for a little while.

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Ozzy.nl » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:26 pm

The auto still spell strength build. How much would the difference be with and without a towers hield?

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:10 pm

Ozzy.nl wrote:The auto still spell strength build. How much would the difference be with and without a towers hield?
With 24 levels of Spellsword, it's a 1 AC difference from going shield-less. (As long as you're using a 1H weapon and the off-hand is free).

The Addy Tower shield also adds 10% DI against a very common physical damage type, so that's another reason to use it on top of the extra AC.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Ozzy.nl » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:08 pm

Good enough for me

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by liver and bones » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:10 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Ozzy.nl wrote:The auto still spell strength build. How much would the difference be with and without a towers hield?
With 24 levels of Spellsword, it's a 1 AC difference from going shield-less. (As long as you're using a 1H weapon and the off-hand is free).

The Addy Tower shield also adds 10% DI against a very common physical damage type, so that's another reason to use it on top of the extra AC.
What do you think of slapping bard or rogue levels in at the end of that build for UMD, tumble, and ward usage that bards have? Would it be worth it?

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by yellowcateyes » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:14 pm

liver and bones wrote:What do you think of slapping bard or rogue levels in at the end of that build for UMD, tumble, and ward usage that bards have? Would it be worth it?
If you're looking to add Bard, you're likely better off using the Greensteel build and skipping Auto-Still. The Auto-Still I-III build is configured the way it is because getting all three of those feats, and EMA, is a tight fit that requires at least two bonus wizard feats occurring in a specific level range.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Maladus » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:39 am

If one wanted to use the 23S/4F/3B Greensteel build but adapt it to a Drow (Gift of Melee-Magthere) what would the ideal stats spread look like? For this I would consider dropping Still Spell to pick up Expertise at 3 to make up for not having the bonus feat at level 1. Also, what do you guys recommend for the school to drop?

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by gilescorey » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:46 am

Maladus wrote:If one wanted to use the 23S/4F/3B Greensteel build but adapt it to a Drow (Gift of Melee-Magthere) what would the ideal stats spread look like? For this I would consider dropping Still Spell to pick up Expertise at 3 to make up for not having the bonus feat at level 1. Also, what do you guys recommend for the school to drop?
The same as normal with +2 int and +2 dex, without any STR or CON gifts ontop. And I would drop still spell if you want to use greensteel, yeah.

As for dropped schools, if you want the cool vamp-imbues, drop enchantment, if you want group buffing capability with mass haste and protection from spells drop necromancy.

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Maladus » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:49 pm

I know this has probably been answered somewhere, but the threads are a little all over the place and the wiki does t state it directly, can you Spellswords make scrolls and then imbue their weapons from the scrolls?

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:14 pm

Maladus wrote:I know this has probably been answered somewhere, but the threads are a little all over the place and the wiki does t state it directly, can you Spellswords make scrolls and then imbue their weapons from the scrolls?
Spellswords still get Scribe Scroll like a normal wizard. Weapons can be imbued from both scrolls and wands.

Mind, you can't use scrolls or wands from your prohibited school.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Baron Saturday » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:14 pm

The real question is, does using metamagic with a wand to imbue a weapon increase the tier of the imbuement? For instance, would a maximixed cast of wall of fire from a wand produce a tier 3 fire imbue?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Astral » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:56 pm

Probably not. But if you cast a maximized spell on yourself and then use a wand on the weapon, there's a legit chance the imbued spell will count as 3 circles higher because of nwn known bug.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Kirito » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:59 pm

Astral wrote:Probably not. But if you cast a maximized spell on yourself and then use a wand on the weapon, there's a legit chance the imbued spell will count as 3 circles higher because of nwn known bug.
It depends on where the bug occurs in the code, but I would expect it would work.

I'll point out that that NWN bug is an exploit, not a feature. It's just one we can't solve via scripting

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Baron Saturday » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:12 pm

Apologies if that's considered an exploit, previous times the topic came up I was told that it wasn't.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by JediMindTrix » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:20 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:Apologies if that's considered an exploit, previous times the topic came up I was told that it wasn't.
Pretty sure it's not considered one here but idk

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Astral » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:11 pm

Depends how you define "exploit". it is legal to do it in Arelith, if that's the question.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Spaniardl » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:27 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:Here are some sample Spellsword builds using the new rules. If you can spot any errors or see ways they can be improved, don't hesitate to point them out.

DEX-Based:

27 Spellsword / 3 Bard
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/JA43JHP8
AC = 61, 71 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [15 BAB + 7 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 420
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT
Caster Level: 27, 30 vs Dispels
Misc: Ease of leveling due to full caster progression from 1-20.

23 Spellsword / 4 Fighter / 3 Rogue
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/cBmPYkw6
AC = 60, 70 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 4 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 41, 43 with GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 436
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 23, 26 vs Dispels (28 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats

24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/c5a7bpfP
AC = 58, 68 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots+ 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin]
AB = 43, 45 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 444
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats, no UMD

23 Spellsword / 7 Weapon Master
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/Js6EadEe
AC = 57, 62 in Expertise [10 + 13 DEX + 4 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin]
AB = 43, 45 w/ GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 Dex + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess + 1 WM]
HP = 448
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 3 STR + 11 INT ( x WM multiplier & crit Range)
Caster Level = 23, 26 vs Dispels, (25 vs SR w/ Spell Pen)
Misc: Tight feats means no KD, normal Expertise. No GSF Abj or UMD.
Warning! WM builds included as a point of comparison. Use at your own risk.

---

STR-Based:

24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter [Full Auto-Still Plate Armor Build]
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/sCx4FbH8
AC = 55, 65 in IE [10 + 1 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 8 Plate Mail + 6 Addy Tower Shield]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 STR + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 474
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] + 13 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 1 Free Pre-Epic Feat (2 if dropping Toughness), no UMD. Auto-Still Spell enables full armored casting.
Note! - Going 2H Weapon is an option. Pre-IE AC drops to 50, and your AB without GMW improves to 44.

23 Spellsword / 4 Fighter / 3 Bard [Greensteel Build, no Auto-Still]
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/fNE72423
AC = 54, 64 in IE [10 + 2 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 5 Breastplate + 4 Empty Offhand INT AC]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 14 STR + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon (or 5 GMW)]
HP = 444 (474 w/ Toughness)
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] +14 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 23, 28 vs Dispels
Misc: Access to UMD, Taunt

27 Spellsword / 3 Bard [Greensteel Build, no Auto-Still]
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/TBn8LczJ
AC = 55, 65 in IE [10 + 2 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 5 Breastplate + 5 Empty Offhand INT AC]
AB = 43, 45 with GMW [15 BAB + 7 Spellsword AB + 14 STR + 3 Focus + 1 Prowess + 3 Weapon (or 5 GMW)]
HP = 420
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] +14 STR + 11 INT
Caster Level = 27, 30 vs Dispels
Misc: Access to UMD, Taunt.


Notes:
  • Given contributor comments regarding Tenser's and Divine Power usage by Spellswords, I did not build with either of these two spells in mind. Stat and level spreads can be optimized further by making use of their effects, but such builds may end up SOL if the spells are indeed changed.
  • Stat spreads assume a near-minimum base INT to qualify for circle 9 spellcasting, with the rest of stat progression going into melee attributes. Going heavier into INT would drop the spellsword's AB to high 30s, and getting appropriate epic spell school focii would involve sacrificing melee feats. At that point, you're likely better off making a Wild Mage.

Why bard instead of rogue?
Do builds on this server typically need epic skill focus discipline? What about for a STR Based spellsword?
If you take 23 wiz, and get GSF Abj and arcane def abj, is your effective caster level 27 and 29 vs dispels?
Do you think these builds need more fort? I think epic fort may be helpful. Not sure if i will have enough spell mantles vs high level casters.
Does bard add to the caster level? I'm pretty sure it doesnt.

Thanks for your help!

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:53 pm

Spaniardl wrote:Why bard instead of rogue?
Bard was suggested over rogue because it gives access to Taunt, which helps the Spellsword against high AC opponents. Evasion also has reduced value since the Spellsword, being based on the Wizard class, tends to have low Reflex. Additionally, craftable bard harps are rather useful.

Bard has Discipline as a class skill, which is why it was chosen for those builds listed that don't dip into Fighter.

You can still choose Rogue, so long as you have a discipline dip otherwise. It's not that big a deal.
Spaniardl wrote:Do builds on this server typically need epic skill focus discipline? What about for a STR Based spellsword?
ESF Discipline is necessary for the DEX builds. It is still useful for the STR build since Truestrike potions are frequently combined with knockdown attempts. Even without Truestrike, there are many ways for a high BAB build to buff AB even further. (Like, for example, wielding any two-handed weapon). ESF Discipline is generally a solid pick for anyone that plans to get within melee range.
Spaniardl wrote:If you take 23 wiz, and get GSF Abj and arcane def abj, is your effective caster level 27 and 29 vs dispels?

Spell Focus in Abjuration does not affect your CL versus dispels. Only Arcane Defense: Abjuration does. Spellsword gets, as a class feature, +3 CL for the purpose of resisting dispels.
Spaniardl wrote:Do you think these builds need more fort? I think epic fort may be helpful. Not sure if i will have enough spell mantles vs high level casters.

Low saving throws are a spellsword weakness. If you can fit in saving throw feats, feel free - but you may have trouble doing so without sacrificing something important.
Spaniardl wrote:Does bard add to the caster level? I'm pretty sure it doesnt.
You are correct, it doesn't.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Spaniardl » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:57 pm

so arcane defense abj gives the 'defender' a +2 caster level versus the dispel by the caster... right? i know.. very confusing language here.

So if i am 20 wiz, and get arcane def abj, my buffs count as casted by a 22 wiz vs dispel, right?

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Spaniardl » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:59 pm

Also, I am kinda leaning towards taking the fighter levels because... not having any good discipline for a long time sounds... not fun. easy to beat until i get to level 27.... too long to wait in my mind, since i actualy have not even gotten any character that high on this server.

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by yellowcateyes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:06 pm

Spaniardl wrote:so arcane defense abj gives the 'defender' a +2 caster level versus the dispel by the caster... right? i know.. very confusing language here.

So if i am 20 wiz, and get arcane def abj, my buffs count as casted by a 22 wiz vs dispel, right?
Yes, that's how it works.
Spaniardl wrote:Also, I am kinda leaning towards taking the fighter levels because... not having any good discipline for a long time sounds... not fun. easy to beat until i get to level 27.... too long to wait in my mind, since i actualy have not even gotten any character that high on this server.
Spellswords do get +1 Discipline every three levels. It's not much, but it helps.

Either way, doing some fighter early on is not a bad option.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Astral » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:33 pm

Spaniardl wrote:Also, I am kinda leaning towards taking the fighter levels because... not having any good discipline for a long time sounds... not fun. easy to beat until i get to level 27.... too long to wait in my mind, since i actualy have not even gotten any character that high on this server.
I highly recommend 3 fighter lvls early on. Helped me a bunch and it didn't set me back too far behind in terms of mage progression.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Wytchee » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:06 pm

A bit tangential, but can GMW be applied to whips? Wondering, since they have Disarm on them.

I'd totally make a sexy Spellwhip :lol:
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by gilescorey » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:29 pm

I don't think so. You can't apply GMW to the Sibayad arena weapons since they're tagged with the redundant "Material: Bronze" unlike all the other bronze weapons in the game, so I wouldn't think you could GMW a whip.

Albeit GMW isn't majorly important later on, especially with the new really strong whip treasure-chest drops.

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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Post by Wytchee » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:48 am

Darn.
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