Since you can only parry as many attacks/round as you have APR, up to 3 total, would parry even work with the APR granted by Spellsword?Kirito wrote:Parry can be fun but has a lot of caveats in it.Ozzy.nl wrote:BTW I was wondering what skills would compliment the build obviously tumble diceplines concentration and spellcraft. But would parry add some quality as well?
New Spellsword Building Thread
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
These builds both have Extend Spell twice, at level 1 and again at 9.yellowcateyes wrote: 23 Spellsword / 4 Fighter / 3 Rogue
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/HBUHfD8Z
AC = 60, 70 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 4 INT Dodge + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 41, 43 with GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 436
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 23, 26 vs Dispels (28 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats
24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/0WsvRTDP
AC = 58, 68 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Dodge + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots+ 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin]
AB = 43, 45 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 444
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats, no UMD
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Good catch. The second feat in both builds should be Empower Spell. Redid the pastebin so they should be fixed.Baron Saturday wrote:These builds both have Extend Spell twice, at level 1 and again at 9.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Yes, works as well as parry can workBaron Saturday wrote: Since you can only parry as many attacks/round as you have APR, up to 3 total, would parry even work with the APR granted by Spellsword?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Thoughts on using Spellsword as a dip for imbue weapon/armor and the Int damage bonus? Something like Fighter 15/WM 7/SS 8 or Fighter 16/WM 7/SS 7. You wouldn't cast anything natively, rather using wands and scrolls to imbue weapons and armor in order to maintain your mundane caster level. You'd lose out on 2 AB (assuming first 4 levels SS and then Fighter/WM up to 20) and 3 AC (crossclassing tumble) from a standard 20/7/3 WM build, but get up to 1d12+4 damage extra, imbue effects, SF/GSF access, and craft wand for all wandable wizard spells. Also your effective caster level for resisting dispels would be 33.
Anything I've overlooked here?
Anything I've overlooked here?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
How confident are we that using wands and scrolls to imbue is intended behavior? If that's changed, the build is 100% shot, so I'd be completely sure about that before starting the character.
Personally I'm all for people trying new variations instead of sticking to the old recipes, though. I don't think it will overturn the current meta if I'm being honest, but it seems like it might be fun.
Personally I'm all for people trying new variations instead of sticking to the old recipes, though. I don't think it will overturn the current meta if I'm being honest, but it seems like it might be fun.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I can't find the quote now, but I distinctly recall Kirito answering that being able to imbue from wands and scrolls being intended.
I certainly hope it stays, lets the spellsword keep a lot of non-buff spells prepared in their spellbook.
I certainly hope it stays, lets the spellsword keep a lot of non-buff spells prepared in their spellbook.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I've had some issues combining temporary essences with Imbue damage, as one frequently overwrites the other. Given that, you might not actually be increasing your damage in a meaningful way in exchange for those points of AB and AC.Baron Saturday wrote:Anything I've overlooked here?
If that issue is resolved or a workaround is found, the dip approach might be a fun alternative.
There are a few additional wrinkles though: the added imbue damage would be still subject to costs - using a Circle 7+ scroll every time you want the highest damage. And you unfortunately won't get much mileage at all from the low DCs of imbue effects (SS class level + 10); you'd basically be fishing for 1s .
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Should be resolved now, but you have to apply the essence firstyellowcateyes wrote:I've had some issues combining temporary essences with Imbue damage, as one frequently overwrites the other. Given that, you might not actually be increasing your damage in a meaningful way in exchange for those points of AB and AC.Baron Saturday wrote:Anything I've overlooked here?
If that issue is resolved or a workaround is found, the dip approach might be a fun alternative.
.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I think I remember reading somewhere that if you are going to be using a 2-hander, Disarm is better than Knockdown. Did I make that up or is it in fact better?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Normally disarm is done at a -6 attack penalty, if people are using the same sized weapon. With a 2-hander, you'll decrease that to -2. Knockdown is done at -4.Maladus wrote:I think I remember reading somewhere that if you are going to be using a 2-hander, Disarm is better than Knockdown. Did I make that up or is it in fact better?
Disarm is the better choice if you're: 1) Looking for survivability, 2) Have high damage and AB and wanting to possibly cash in on possible AoO's as the person goes for their dropped weapon.
However, if you went the improved versions for either knockdown or disarm, knockdown is just usually better. Improved disarm just doesn't force you to proc a AoO on yourself. Improved KD lets you negate the -4 entirely.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
The thing with disarm is that if you are using - say - a large weapon, and your enemy is using a tiny, you don't get a penalty. You get a +6 to AB. Up to +10 if you have Improved Disarm.
In theory. I actually never tested it myself.
In theory. I actually never tested it myself.
Misc Changes, with the Feats and Skills sublinks.
Available races
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Class Mechanics
Command Guide
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Available races
Spell Changes
Class Mechanics
Command Guide
Take a look before asking your questions!
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
That is indeed how it works, you get a raw attack bonus.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I'm not sure about that. I think imp KD simply makes the character count as one category larger (which means +4 against the target's discipline check, not their ac). Cortex or anyone can you confirm?liver and bones wrote:Improved KD lets you negate the -4 entirely.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
IKD gives you a bonus to your effective AB that they make the discipline check against, but you still roll the actual attack at the -4.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
That's what I meant, exactly, although the way you put it is probably clearer.TimeAdept wrote:IKD gives you a bonus to your effective AB that they make the discipline check against, but you still roll the actual attack at the -4.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
How valuable is Arcane Defense: Abjuration? Is it worth giving up IKD for?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Depends on your build. The fewer levels of spellsword you have, the more valuable it is. Roughly speaking, I'd say take it if you're going to have 24 or fewer spellsword levels.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
It is.Deathdealer2.0 wrote:How valuable is Arcane Defense: Abjuration? Is it worth giving up IKD for?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I wouldn't bother with IKD on a spellsword personally, your AB isn't ever going to be high enough to really benefit a great deal from it.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Edited a couple of the STR Greensteel builds to take advantage of the new, built-in ASF reduction for armor. They're slightly stronger now.
STR WM build deleted from the list until I have time to rework it.
STR WM build deleted from the list until I have time to rework it.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I was looking through the Greensteel builds and noticed you still take Still Spell with both of the STR builds (I didn't check the DEX builds). With the 5% reduction from the path and the 5% on the armor, doesn't this feat become worthless?yellowcateyes wrote:Edited a couple of the STR Greensteel builds to take advantage of the new, built-in ASF reduction for armor. They're slightly stronger now.
STR WM build deleted from the list until I have time to rework it.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Greensteel isn't available in low levels, and Still Spell makes life easier for a newbie Spellsword reliant on armor for AC. I didn't feel comfortable with dropping it completely, and the builds weren't particularly strapped for pre-epic feats.Maladus wrote:I was looking through the Greensteel builds and noticed you still take Still Spell with both of the STR builds (I didn't check the DEX builds). With the 5% reduction from the path and the 5% on the armor, doesn't this feat become worthless?
Later on, it has an (albeit niche) use in allowing the Spellsword to opt for extra protection by swapping their greensteel breastplate for other types of armor while retaining spellcasting.
If you're confident about surviving and leveling up without it, don't hesitate to drop the feat for something else.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
For non-human builds, dropping that feat and dealing with the annoyance may be worth it.
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Make scrolls. I managed just fine.Maladus wrote:For non-human builds, dropping that feat and dealing with the annoyance may be worth it.
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