AC, AC, AC

[Artenides]

I do not really have any experience with meele characters and never had a lvl 30 char before. I wonder if you could give me some advice on what items do I need to be an effective tanky/meele char.

1. Apart from "if you get hit too often your AC is low" is there any guide optimizing your gear? Something like "at lvl 5 you have to have 20 AC, at lvl 10 you need at least 25 AC, etc".

2. What is the maximum AC for a cleric? What are the best items per slot?

3. How can you increase your AC without using magic?

4. Any suggestions for tanks (battle clerics)?

[kittenblackfriends]

10 AC base. 8 AC from armor. 1 AC from DEX. 3 AC from tower shield. That's your nonmagical 22 AC.

5 armor AC from Lv15 magic vestments. 5 shield AC from Lv15 magic vestments. 5 defl AC from Shield of Faith. So all clerics have 37 AC by Lv15.

An additional 4 dodge AC from Haste (Travel Domain). An additional 5 AC from barkskin (Plant domain) - alternatively 3 AC if you don't have the plant domain. Through potions, you'll have at least 44 AC.

An additional 5/10 AC from expertise/improved expertise. Plus other AC boosters, like Dodge boots (at least +1, barring artefacts), the Dodge feat (+1 vs your current target).

And then divine shield if you REALLY want it, but it's difficult to build for since MAD (multi attribute dependency). Just note that your total dodge AC caps at 20 - and that includes your dodge AC from boots and haste.

[Kirito]

and then 6 Dodge AC from level 30 tumble...

So 54 before expertise/divine shield is max for cleric.

[Peppermint]

Just bear in mind that the Dodge feat isn't really worth it for the bonus; it's more of a, "I have to take this for the prerequisite" feat.

Not saying that kittenblackfriends suggested you should. Only mentioning it because I've seen a lot of newer players prioritize it, when really, there are a ton of better alternatives.

[Meliboeus]

...I've seen a lot of newer players prioritize it, when really, there are a ton of better alternatives.

Peppermint, does that mean you spend time deconstructing current player builds? That must be fascinating (and maddening)!

[Peppermint]

Nah.

I used to offer build critique on a competitive action/PvP server. Some of the builds I received were pretty good, aside from a few niggles here and there. Some were absolutely unsalvageable. Most were somewhere in between.

But after a while, certain patterns arise -- common bumbles from player to player. This was a fairly typical one.

[Baron Saturday]

As a response to "how much AC in general," a completed 20/7/3 WM build will have
10 base
13 addy full plate (incl. Dex)
4 addy helm
7 addy tower shield
6 tumble
2 armor skin
1 boots
1 mage armor
4 barkskin (wand, or 3 w/ potion)
4 haste
for a total of 52 before Improved Expertise, so up to 62 optional. It wouldn't be unreasonable for one to have 30+ AC before level 10 from a set of steel or +1 enchanted bronze.

[gilescorey]

And one more from dexterity for a total of 51.

[Baron Saturday]

And one more from dexterity for a total of 51.

Already counted that as part of addy full plate. 8 base + 1 Dex + 3 adamantine + 1 fighter.

[gilescorey]

Oh whoops. I was wondering why my calculations were wrong. I was counting armour skin, and not counting mage armour. Most WM builds should and will have armour skin though.

[Baron Saturday]

Oh whoops. I was wondering why my calculations were wrong. I was counting armour skin, and not counting mage armour. Most WM builds should and will have armour skin though.

I... Totally forgot armor skin. Edited!

[High Primate]

2. What is the maximum AC for a cleric? What are the best items per slot?

Depends on the build type but a well-built strength-based battle cleric can achieve 66 on its own. A charisma cleric can get even more, but mid 60s is generally more than sufficient.

You'll also want to stock up on AC-boosting scrolls, wands, and potions that cast spells like mage armor, barkskin, haste, shadow shield. Shadow shield scrolls are expensive but very worth it when the stakes are high.

[Artenides]

Thanks for all the answers guys, you are awesome!

[WhiskeyGuy]

I've noticed a trend...

It's to include Barkskin, Mage Armor, Haste and other things into an AC calculation.

It begs the question... does everyone really buff with all those things all the time?

I can see doing it for a boss or something, but... to stay buffed with all that constantly is impractical.

Fairly new here so looking for "typical numbers to shoot for" for AC and AB, and found this article.

Thanks.

[Peppermint]

Barkskin is pretty much permanently buffed, yes.

Mage Armor? Sometimes. Definitely on arcane casters.

Haste is often included in calculations because it's always going to be up against actual threats. You won't need that much AC for filler.

[WhiskeyGuy]

Interesting, guess I need to find a steady source of Barkskin then.

[Aodh Lazuli]

Players often sell barkskin wands in shops. The duration for these is pretty good (far better than potions), and they're relatively cheap, most of the time...

[High Primate]

It begs the question...

[WhiskeyGuy]

Hmm?

[Aero Silver]

Just bear in mind that the Dodge feat isn't really worth it for the bonus; it's more of a, "I have to take this for the prerequisite" feat.

Oh I never knew that! I kinda liked the extra 1 AC. Thanks for sharing.

[Terminal_Templari]

Mage Armor? Sometimes. Definitely on arcane casters.

On a non-pure caster, I would say definitely. On a pure caster, though? What's the point? Is 13 AC better than 9?

Freaking anything will hit both AC like it's not even there. At least Shield and Prot v alignment have other effects... I routinely skipped the mage armour on my casters. I had it, sure... but never bothered casting it on myself, only on my summon.

[Lorkas]

It's worth casting on any caster you'd bother calculating AC for.

[Spaniardl]

If you want to be a good tank, make sure you have some sort of concealment, whether its a friend to buff you or your using wands with improved invis on them. If you have a million ac, you still get hit 5% of the time.