Sub?-optimal Build Starters

[Hunter548]

Rangers
Double weapon: Double axe, double sword. Don't turn your nose up at it immediatly: These weapons give you seven attacks per round while hasted, and +2 AB. Very good for going Pufferfish to the walls for damage, though you obviously lose 8 AC.

Out of curiosity, 8?

Shouldn't that be 5 AC lost? Towershield +3 would be 7 AC, but dual wielding on a ranger gives you 2AC after level 14 while dual wielding. Potentially toss in the shield spell, to drop the difference down to 1/2AC?

I think Hunter was counting the +1 shield AC from fighter level 5, but that doesn't apply anymore - shield got moved to 10, fighters now get +1 armor AC at 5. Also, the spell Shield gives deflection AC, despite the name, so wouldn't close the gap any.

This is correct - Or rather, the 8 is a typo, when I meant to type 7 for the reasons Baron outlined. . Worth noting that most of my stuff has been very back of envelope thus far so ask clarification if you're confused.

[WanderingPoet]

They don't. Which makes me sad.

They do get the +2 ab but it would hardly be OP to let them enable the whopping +2 AC as well since focusing on a double weapon costs you AB/dmg when switching to sword 'n board for more AC

Wiki is incorrect then? Or is there a bug?

At level 6, acquire Animal Companion, and they gain +1 Dodge AC when they are dual wielding. This applies to Double Sided Weapons.

I hadn't realized Shield was deflection AC, good to know! Apparently I should read spell a little more carefully~

[Baron Saturday]

They don't. Which makes me sad.

They do get the +2 ab but it would hardly be OP to let them enable the whopping +2 AC as well since focusing on a double weapon costs you AB/dmg when switching to sword 'n board for more AC

Wiki is incorrect then? Or is there a bug?

At level 6, acquire Animal Companion, and they gain +1 Dodge AC when they are dual wielding. This applies to Double Sided Weapons.

Huh. Last time I checked the wiki, it very clearly stated that the AC bonus did NOT apply to double-sided weapons. Can someone with a ranger confirm that this has been changed, or if the wiki is just wrong?

[Rabbid]

They don't. Which makes me sad.

They do get the +2 ab but it would hardly be OP to let them enable the whopping +2 AC as well since focusing on a double weapon costs you AB/dmg when switching to sword 'n board for more AC

Wiki is incorrect then? Or is there a bug?

At level 6, acquire Animal Companion, and they gain +1 Dodge AC when they are dual wielding. This applies to Double Sided Weapons.

Huh. Last time I checked the wiki, it very clearly stated that the AC bonus did NOT apply to double-sided weapons. Can someone with a ranger confirm that this has been changed, or if the wiki is just wrong?

I have had it confirmed by Scurvy and a couple of others that the bonus does indeed apply, though for the sake of being 120% sure I'm about to test it.

[WanderingPoet]

They don't. Which makes me sad.

They do get the +2 ab but it would hardly be OP to let them enable the whopping +2 AC as well since focusing on a double weapon costs you AB/dmg when switching to sword 'n board for more AC

Wiki is incorrect then? Or is there a bug?

At level 6, acquire Animal Companion, and they gain +1 Dodge AC when they are dual wielding. This applies to Double Sided Weapons.

Huh. Last time I checked the wiki, it very clearly stated that the AC bonus did NOT apply to double-sided weapons. Can someone with a ranger confirm that this has been changed, or if the wiki is just wrong?

Intentional change to the wiki as of June 4th. I just tested it with a character with 6 levels of ranger and I didn't get the dodge ac even when dual wielding a rapier and shortsword. Not sure if it is actually given at level 6.

[Rabbid]

Intentional change to the wiki as of June 4th. I just tested it with a character with 6 levels of ranger and I didn't get the dodge ac even when dual wielding a rapier and shortsword. Not sure if it is actually given at level 6.

Does your character have the path of sniper or archer? If so you won't be eligible for the dual wield ac

[WanderingPoet]

Good point, path of the Archer.

[Baron Saturday]

Pied Piper of the Damned!

Bard 8/Knight Vanguard 6/Blackguard 16
Summon a big demon, buff it/debuff enemies, sit in Imp. Expertise and laugh.
Orog might be good for this, as the stat bonuses are perfect - str/cha. Don't need dex/wis for this build!

EDIT: Oh yeah, and get at least 26 ranks of Carpentry. Rock out on the Ollamh harp while your beasty goes to town.

EDIT 2: Am stupid, Orogs don't get Power Attack and +5 Intimidate, though the Str/Cha bonus would still be nice.

EDIT 3: Am a drooling incompetent. Inability to take Lasting inspiration puts a damper on this build. Possibly take Lingering Song and Extra Song to make up for it? :/

[gilescorey]

Orogs don't get the Half-Orc bonuses like free power attack and such.

[Baron Saturday]

Orogs don't get the Half-Orc bonuses like free power attack and such.

... I suppose that would be kinda over the top, huh? Bah. Human it is, then!

[Jagel]

Also lasting insp takes more than 8 bard lvls, no?

[gilescorey]

Also true. You need at least 20 bard levels for lasting inspiration.

[Baron Saturday]

Bah, was deceived by the prereqs, didn't think to check the notes on the wiki.