Solid Pale Master build

[Abyssal Wrath]

After the recent discussion concerning Discipline while having a high ac is worth it or not, which i was clarified about by scurvy (Thanks for that, one never stops learning) i tried a few PM builds and I am not Sure which is the most optimal. I am talking about melee of course. Is it Bard fighter PM? Bard BG PM? Wizard fighter PM? This is also completly focused on pve. No idea if there's much of a difference. Also are the necro spell focuses a must have? Are Things like knockdown /imp knockdown even worth it with The subpar ab a PM has? Would be glad about some Input on that one.

[High Primate]

Do you want to be a melee-er? Fighter 11/Bard 4/PM 15. This is your standard "optimal" PM build. Four attacks per round and Epic Mage Armor. Strength is your primary stat, and gear should go into strength and con.

(And, yes, you want discipline.)

[DarkDreamer]

1-10 Wizard
11-24, Palemaster (At levels 23 and 24 you will get epic necro and illusion)
25-27 Bard (Skill dump discipline and tumble, and at 27 take epic skill focus discipline)
28 Palemaster
29 Wizard
30, Palemaster (And this is the level you get Dragon knight and epic mage armour)

___________________________

Stats Pre-Gift
STR: 16
DEX: 8
CON: 12
INT: 14
CHA: 8
WIS: 16

1Cleric: Expertise/Improved Expertise
2C:
3C: Extend Spell
4C:
5C:
6C: Knockdown
7C:
8C:
9C: Blindfight
10C:
11C:
12C: Spell Focus: Evocation
13C:
14C:
15C: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
16C:
17C:
18Ftr: Weapon Focus (SCIMITAR OR RAPIER)/ Improved Critical
19F: Improved Knockdown
20F:
21C: Epic Weapon Focus
22:
23:
24: G-Ruin
25Rog:
26R:
27R: ESF: Discipline (Alternatively Armor skin or Prowess)
28C:
29F: Armorskin OR Prowess
30C: Hellball+Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
I'd do Con/Wis gifts, myself.
As for domains, you want travel and either plant or trickery.

[Abyssal Wrath]

That's a list for a battle cleric :p
Also this doesn't seem too melee based with Wizard, no?

[IIllII]

10/4/16 Ftr/Bard/PM

Race: Horc
Stat spread:
STR: 19 + 2
DEX: 8
CON: 14 + 2
INT: 14
CHA: 6
WIS: 8

FTR 1-8
BRD 9-11
PM 12-19
FTR 20 (20+ Disc for ESF:Disc)
PM 21-27 (EDK at 27)
FTR 28 (EWS)
BRD 29 (Tumble, Disc, etc)
PM 30 (2 Epic spells)

Gets you 3 epic spells, 41 (or 42 with Epic Prowess) AB with a standard m.damask, 46 AC with standard addy gear unbuffed, 67 AC with EMA, +1 MA, +2 from Cat's. 77 with Imp expertise, 79 with Magic Vestment on your shield. You'll want to use Divine Power for serious killing.

[The Guy everyone thinks is Memelord]

IMHO If you're going PM caster on Arelith, go for that sweet sweet dracolich Damnatis style.

Conj/Necromancy

Cleric/Bard/PM 23/4/3 and go ham. Take 3 bard pre/early epics so you can max your epic spells. You only need 3 PM for virtually any reason that's casterly.

Full caster investment of any manner on a PM is, unfortunately, a mistake since it doesn't really add to durations; but despite popular belief you can get the general flavor while still being a viable caster. Plus the aforementioned build adds literally 'all' of its levels for the purpose of calculating UCL - which may or may not matter to you.

[Abyssal Wrath]

This is mainly about melee, as i said in the First post. But Thanks for the Input anyway. The issue i am having right now is, are the undead so useful that it is better to take the PM Levels early, or should i Focus on the fighter class early to make earlier leveling easier. Talking about preepic here.

[The Guy everyone thinks is Memelord]

Oh. I missed that somehow. In that case... I actually have another person I've been helping with a PM build.

I suggest 10/4/16 Fighter/Bard/PM.

Fighter until 10th, take 3 bard, then 6 PM, then 1 more bard at 20; take the last 10 PM. Ends you at BAB 16~. The AC comes out identical to 11/4/15 and so does the discipline if you get ESF Disc; but because the AC isn't from Tumble it's slightly more useful (can't flatfoot it).

Alternatively if you know a good cleric supplier you can go with the 3 APR PM, but that's a whole different animal. Which does beg the question: are you going for raw optimization, or are you looking to be well-rounded and hold your own?

either way, I wouldn't suggest the undead under any real circumstances. You're going to be leveling via your melee for the MAJORITY of your early career; so you'll want to come as close to any other fighter as you can.



EDIT: Also - on the Knockdown question specifically. With a scant few exceptions, Knockdown on Arelith meleers is a critical part of being effective; primarily because AC on Arelith is a myth, and therefore the relatively low AB Ceiling they achieve is irrelevant if your target doesn't have ESF Disc and a maxed skill. Probably even then since the massive string of enchantment nerfs.

TLDR; it's no less viable on a PM than on a Rogue. Which is to say, yes, take it you dingus.

[Abyssal Wrath]

I'd rather prefer it if the build Can manage without a lot of help. The Charakter would be more of a side project anyway so he will probably not make a lot of longterm friends. But who knows right. So you are saying going fighter is better and the BG version isn't really worth taking a look into?

[The Guy everyone thinks is Memelord]

The BG one's performance is 'far' superior on servers where you can reliably get more than 2 stats geared. Arelith doesn't really allow for this. If you felt like building for, for instance, Amia? A BG palemaster might be worth a glance; but here it really isn't. Fighter's your best bet. More feats, you can take the AB sooner, and you don't have to meet any nasty prereqs.

[Freyason]

Just so I don't get this wrong, difference between 4 APR character and 3 APR one is just lowest attack at -15AB, right?

That was one of issues for me when deciding between 16/4/10 F/Ba/PM and 16/4/10 PM/Ba/F

[Jack Oat]

Just so I don't get this wrong, difference between 4 APR character and 3 APR one is just lowest attack at -15AB, right?

Yes, basically.

That was one of issues for me when deciding between 16/4/10 F/Ba/PM and 16/4/10 PM/Ba/F

The two in question are 11/4/15 (or 10/5/15) FTR/Bard/PM or 10/4/16 FTR/Bard/PM. 16/4/10 doesn't net you 4-6 more AC from PM levels as well as missing out on EMA and/or other PM spells.

[Freyason]

Right, that was my own mix that I since come to see disadvantages of

While we're at it, what would be good resistance for PM 13? And Dragon Knight vs Mummy Dust?

[High Primate]

Dragon Knight. Mummy Dust would be somewhat subpar since you can't fit the spell focuses in necromancy on this build. Just remember that, either way, all it takes is a Mass Heal spell to poof your lovable friend out of existence.

[Hunter548]

Both the Vampires and the Dracolich are relatively decent without focuses. Vampires can be gotten rid of via word of faith, while the dracolich is larger, less manueverable, and only 1/day. (Vampires, you'll have around 5-6 castings of, plus one that gets the vampire count.)

As for the resistance, either fire, acid, or sonic to my mind.

[Abyssal Wrath]

Alright thanks for the help so far, and for the sake of completion, how different would the 3APR build be? So that one relies on Divine power scrolls if there's need I guess?

Also, with the build The Guy everyone thinks is Memelord mentioned, I managed to put in greater necro focus by taking the bard levels at 10,11,12 so I have normal focus at 12 and took greater at 15 with pm.

[Stath]

Sonic is a great resistance to have considering how oftrn you come across it.

[Hunter548]

Sonic is a great resistance to have considering how oftrn you come across it.

Wounding Whispers was my thought. Sonic resistance brings it down by close to half.

[The Guy everyone thinks is Memelord]

Sonic resistance is dope, seconded. Although you can argue that being able to mostly ignore Acid Sheathe keeps you from falling into the trap of using a Lesser Breach wand in the event that that's exactly what the mage in question wants you to do <,< that's happened from time to time.

But! Because external sources for Sonic Resistance are so few, having it is invaluable.

[Astral]

As far as I know, and I didn't double check, you should go for 3 apr. because in return you get to put your 10th fighter lvl in epics (for epic spec) and your 4th bard lvl at lvl 30, to max out skills. And I would personally go for 16 pm because +1 epic spell.

[Taoen7]

I have been working on an RP for a Pale Master but I guess I have not done enough work on the actual build part of it. Does a Spellsword roll into this mix better? Would you do SS/Fighter/PM? Would love to hear thoughts on this.

[Astral]

I have been working on an RP for a Pale Master but I guess I have not done enough work on the actual build part of it. Does a Spellsword roll into this mix better? Would you do SS/Fighter/PM? Would love to hear thoughts on this.

There's no interaction between the pale master class and the spellsword CL so it looks like a bad idea, considering as a spellsword you cant pick epic EMA.

[Thanatosis]

considering as a spellsword you cant pick epic EMA.

Incorrect, EMA is the only epic spell spellswords are allowed to get. However I agree with the rest of your post in that PM spellsword is probably a bad idea, owing to the 1/2 BAB of PM class.

[Conversations With Your Car Alarm]

You'll want to use Divine Power for serious killing.

Divine Power can no longer be cast from a scroll.

Outside of a pretty rare item Divine Power scroll strat is no longer a thing.

[Taoen7]

Thank you for the input. Reworking this build.. again.