Harper update: Harper build discussion

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BobTheSkull
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Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by BobTheSkull » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:04 pm

Post your favorite new theory crafter builds for Harper's! Let's see those level 30 bard songs, the infinity cast true flames, chaotic neutral bardadin a, full blade thirst rangers.

I really want to encourage posting full builds here. Feel free to discuss pros and cons but let's keep every post informative and supportive. Also let's keep this to what we have in the current Harper update and not lament about what we lost or what we think we should have gotten.

I.e
"Harper's suck" is not informative.
"Craft Harper item sucks because it only saves 20gp per potion, is only once per day and costs xp" is helpful
"Harper paragon *see link to full build here* is very strong requiring bardadin without any paladin levels, possibly a chaotic neutral bardadin, is exactly in point and helpful

BobTheSkull
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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by BobTheSkull » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:15 am

Been trying to decide a good Harper mage build. Specially Harper true flame. When to take Harper? Ideally you take it in epic for the bonus feats, however with the changes in wondering if it is better to take sooner as Harper holds your spell penetration feats.

Thoughts?

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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:44 am

Sorc1- SF: Evo
3- GSF: Evo
6- Empower Spell
9- Maximize Spell
12- Alertness
15- Iron Will
18- Quicken Spell
21- ESF EVO
22- Sorc
23-24 HM(2)- Spell Penetration(Free), Greater Ruin, Great Charisma - Start Bluff and Listen dumps here.
25-27 HM(5)(SPELLCRAFT 30!)- Skill Focus: Spellcraft(Free), Eschew Materials(Free), AQ1&2 Finish Bluff and Listen dumps. Spot is better, but it's cross-class for HM, and you can fit all your spells on the quickslot bar so you can still target people you hear (and most of them are AoE and can be targeted on the ground next to them anyway).
28 Sorc(23)- AQ3
30 Sorc(25)- HB

Starting stats
10 STR
8 DEX
10 CON
9 WIS
16 INT(18 post racial- sun elf)
17 CHA (+2 Gift for 19) +6 from level ups +1 great charisma = final cha of 26- 38 after buffs for DC 39 Level 9 Evocation spells. I'm planning to use the final stat increase for a +1 wis to represent RP over time with Cev, but it would probably be smarter to put it into STR for more carry capacity. I've got like an extra three pounds with all the junk I carry.

This build as written is dependent on Harper Mage Bonus Feats giving access to Auto-Quicken as a choice (since they've given access to epic spells so far, I don't see why they wouldn't). Otherwise the last 7 or so levels may require some juggling.
You will have plenty of skill points- make sure you leave enough to cross-class discipline.

Note: I also took Gift of Tongues on this particular sun elf, and gift of wealth, in case you're wondering why I didn't grab the con gift. The gift of tongues in particular has served me exceptionally well from a Harper mindset.

This build would also work on a Human and be a little less feat-tight at the end, but the sun-elven racial to intelligence allows you to get the most from gift of tongues, allowing a fairly spectacular total of 9 languages, including common and elven. (And in my case the character is the child of two elf characters, so it was kind of a given).

Don't forget to rock your clumsiness when you try to climb certain spots in the module. :lol:
Last edited by Aelryn Bloodmoon on Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Infinite Solutions
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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by Infinite Solutions » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:24 pm

Do Harper mage levels add to wiz/sorc against dispels? I was considering making a Harper mage but saw they don't get discipline any more which would mean adding a bard or ranger dip as well.

BobTheSkull
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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by BobTheSkull » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:16 pm

Infinite Solutions wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:24 pm
Do Harper mage levels add to wiz/sorc against dispels? I was considering making a Harper mage but saw they don't get discipline any more which would mean adding a bard or ranger dip as well.
Not actually tested, but per nwn mechanics they should. Dispel is against caster level not class level.

So 25 sorc/5HM would be a level 30 caster for purposes of dispel.

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MissEvelyn
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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by MissEvelyn » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:28 pm

Aelryn: Would your build work with a True Flame sorceress?

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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:18 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:28 pm
Aelryn: Would your build work with a True Flame sorceress?
Sorry for the confusion! I originally posted an intention to post my TF/Harper build when I got home, then edited that bit out and put the build in its place, without ever mentioning that the build is in fact for a true flame.

So to answer your question, this build is meant for a TF/Harper. I haven't played a regular sorcerer, and if I did I'd probably try to squeeze an extra spell school in somehow and disregard the auto-quicken line of feats entirely, since a sorcerer can haste themselves without the TF restrictions.
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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by MissEvelyn » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:36 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:18 pm
MissEvelyn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:28 pm
Aelryn: Would your build work with a True Flame sorceress?
Sorry for the confusion! I originally posted an intention to post my TF/Harper build when I got home, then edited that bit out and put the build in its place, without ever mentioning that the build is in fact for a true flame.

So to answer your question, this build is meant for a TF/Harper. I haven't played a regular sorcerer, and if I did I'd probably try to squeeze an extra spell school in somehow and disregard the auto-quicken line of feats entirely, since a sorcerer can haste themselves without the TF restrictions.
Oh perfect, thank you! =)

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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by BobTheSkull » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:58 am

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:44 am
21- GSF EVO
I can not describe how long I spent looking for ESF EVO :P

What are your thoughts on dipping paladin for saves/discipline/Divine shield?

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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:49 am

BobTheSkull wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:58 am
Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:44 am
21- GSF EVO
I can not describe how long I spent looking for ESF EVO :P

What are your thoughts on dipping paladin for saves/discipline/Divine shield?
:oops: !!! Fixed. Sorry about that.

The build as written has a base 9 ac. An extra 14 ac brings you up to 23, which is drastically better than 9... but this is an endgame consideration. By the time you have +14 AC for a whopping total of 23, the people you can't instantly obliterate with two 30d8 full-screen meteor swarms for zero spell component cost are probably going to be swinging much, much higher ABs than 23- probably high enough to hit you on a two for all four attacks.

So I'd rather keep all 30 caster levels for spell penetration and dispel check purposes.

Note that I am regarded as a masochist in my builds at best and bad at worst, and while these are my thoughts, they are by no means endorsed as an "optimal build." Rather, it's what lets me get the most out of what I'm trying to play- a glass cannon true flame with a slightly hot temper, the tendency to be clumsy, a deep sense of compassion, and a scholarly upbringing.

Your mileage may certainly vary, and dipping paladin WILL give you access to discipline as a class skill, which is still useful even if the bonus AC isn't- unless you rock a tower shield, full plate, and still spell instead of quicken. You might want to look into Harper Paragon- I'm unsure exactly how it was changed off the top of my head, I'll look on my next level-up. If it still saves you having to get power attack, it's a superior choice feat-wise if your focus is on quicken rather than armor casting.

I'm not entirely certain you can still squeeze auto-quicken 3 in with paragon, though. A lot of the changes are still undocumented and I can only see how the classes work while leveling up.
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002

BobTheSkull
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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by BobTheSkull » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:39 pm

I created a note pad copy of the chases I'll try to remember to post it. Isn't pretty but it is all there.

Paladin also makes you fear immune (dragons) and gives you save immunity (all saves over 35)

I agree the AC is pretty meaningless, with Divine shield you get up to around 43, and at level 30 even a sub op build will have a 36 AB and hitting most of the time with the top 3 attacks. Though from an pve situation 13 uses of that ac isn't bad. Though it does cost 2 feats so maybe not worth it.

Lastly, what happened to darkness!? Since the hack pack, I have no longer able to see out of darkness. I used to be able to stand in it and shoot out without ultra vision, no more.

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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:01 am

BobTheSkull wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:39 pm
Lastly, what happened to darkness!? Since the hack pack, I have no longer able to see out of darkness. I used to be able to stand in it and shoot out without ultra vision, no more.
Hmm. I'll test when I get home. Can you give details? Is the change in behavior persistent across multiple encounters? Is it possible you had UV or some other vision spell at one point and experienced a blindness bug? (Relogging will fix this).

It's also possible the spell behavior was altered- I could see a logical argument for doing so, but I strongly suspect such a thing would've been documented in release notes, especially after the blowback recently.
Bane's tyranny is known throughout the continent, and his is the image most seen as the face of evil.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002

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Re: Harper update: Harper build discussion

Post by BobTheSkull » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:04 pm

I went back and tested it with a different character and didn't have the same event. However I was playing with 2 others who reported the same event. I'm thinking it may have been a glitch based on tile set or shader changes?

But happy to know it isn't a server wide change. I enjoyed playing a TF and having to work around the lack of UV.

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