Rogue/Sd build

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JubJub
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Rogue/Sd build

Post by JubJub » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:53 pm

I notice in the cookie cutter build there is no rogue/SD, is there a good rogue SD build?

Astral
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Astral » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:03 pm

You can take the cookie cutter of 24 rogue 6 fighter and turn it to 19 rogue 6 fighter 5 sd, taking almost the same feats (as you'd need to trade 2 feats for dodge and mobility but that's about it). Or you can do for a heavy SD build with epic shadow lord which is 5 rogue 6 fighter/monk 19 sd and probably more advised than 19 rogue with 5 SD just for hips in my opinion because rogue builds really benefit from A LOT of rogue lvls and taking SD just for HipS doesnt worth the lose of rogue lvls when rogue is your core class.
DM GrumpyCat wrote: Don't blame characters for things they have no controle over. (e.g. - Why havn't you fixed Benwick yet Mr Paladin?') That just frustrates people as there's no real answer they can give.

Sea Shanties
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Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Sea Shanties » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:35 pm

20 Rogue/5 SD/ 5 fighter is OK. (19/5/6 works too but 20 gets you a speed bump in stealth.) You do lose feats having to take dodge and mobility but get free defensive roll which helps a little.

10 Rogue/ 14 SD/ 6 fighter would get you a strong epic shadow with enough sneak attack to be viable especially when the shadow is out. If the shadow is lost though you'll be just a weakened rogue.

Guess it depends what you want to do. If you want PVP strength you may want to drop the shadowdancer idea entirely or keep it to 5 levels. The 10 rogue/14 SD would be an excellent PVE explorer with lots of survivability but you may have to run from strong PVP opponents.

Astral
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Astral » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Sea Shanties wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:35 pm
20 Rogue/5 SD/ 5 fighter is OK. (19/5/6 works too but 20 gets you a speed bump in stealth.) You do lose feats having to take dodge and mobility but get free defensive roll which helps a little.
Thats right. My bad there. You get defensive roll for free so you save an epic feat at the cost of 2 pre-epic feats but ultimately you give up high dc on grenades, access to some grenades, some sneak damage and skill points in exchange for hips and some neat cookies (penubral vestment, kinda weak shadow summon that is useful sometimes). Its a decent choice over all. I take back what I said.
DM GrumpyCat wrote: Don't blame characters for things they have no controle over. (e.g. - Why havn't you fixed Benwick yet Mr Paladin?') That just frustrates people as there's no real answer they can give.

Sea Shanties
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:45 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Sea Shanties » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:27 pm

On the plus side if you get the shadow ASAP leveling to epics would be very fast and easy. But it's a weaker character than a standard rogue in the end since you're giving up the things you said.

Astral
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Astral » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:43 am

Sea Shanties wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:27 pm
On the plus side if you get the shadow ASAP leveling to epics would be very fast and easy. But it's a weaker character than a standard rogue in the end since you're giving up the things you said.
Its also weaker than taking 5th sd at epic lvls cause 5th sd loses you bab if you take it pre-epic. And yes, leaving the SD out of this rogue build entirely is probably for the best.
DM GrumpyCat wrote: Don't blame characters for things they have no controle over. (e.g. - Why havn't you fixed Benwick yet Mr Paladin?') That just frustrates people as there's no real answer they can give.

Sea Shanties
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:45 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Sea Shanties » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:19 am

As long as you take 12 Rogue levels, 4 SD, 4 fighter pre-epic you get the BAB for the 4th attack. You get the shadow at 3, you don't need to wait until epics for that. You'd have to wait for HIPS though.

I'm not going to say it's a bad a way to go if someone wants that HiPS. It is really fun and a lot more reliable than something like drinking an invisibility potion when you really want to drop out of sight.

Astral
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by Astral » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:08 am

Sea Shanties wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:19 am
As long as you take 12 Rogue levels, 4 SD, 4 fighter pre-epic you get the BAB for the 4th attack. You get the shadow at 3, you don't need to wait until epics for that. You'd have to wait for HIPS though.

I'm not going to say it's a bad a way to go if someone wants that HiPS. It is really fun and a lot more reliable than something like drinking an invisibility potion when you really want to drop out of sight.
Lol I even play SD and I forgot the shadow comes at 3 and not at 5.
DM GrumpyCat wrote: Don't blame characters for things they have no controle over. (e.g. - Why havn't you fixed Benwick yet Mr Paladin?') That just frustrates people as there's no real answer they can give.

JubJub
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by JubJub » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:37 pm

I never worry about pvp, I just accept I will get stomped. As for the concept I hadn't really decided if it should be a master of shadows that has rogue abiilites to aid him with some things. Or a rogue that has learned a few tricks of the shadow such has jumping to the shadows if he gets caught breaking into a place type thing. But so far sounds as if its a rogue who wanted to talents of the shadow that it would be better to just forget the sd.

TimeAdept
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Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Rogue/Sd build

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:42 am

8 fighter 5 rogue 17 SD is the best way to do that combination of levels, i.e. high SD. Not 10/4/16, not 10/14/6

20/5/5 and 19/6/5 are good for dips, and depends on if you want the feat vs the extra rogue power.

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