23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Discussions related to character builds and mechanics may occur here.

Moderators: Active DMs, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
blksabbath74
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:01 pm

23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by blksabbath74 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:40 pm

I seems that Spellswords are primarily tanks, and that their low DC prevents them from being useful end-game casters.

I was thinking of going Spellsword 23 for level 9 spells and access to ESF: Transmutation and Epic Mage Armor then maybe Rogue 3, Fighter 4 to tank him up a bit.

Is something like that viable?

Spellsword 23/Rogue 3/Fighter 4
1) Spellsword 1 – SF: Transmutation, Weapon Focus
2) Spellsword 2
3) Spellsword 3 – GSF: Transmutation
4) Spellsword 4
5) Spellsword 5
6) Spellsword 6 - Expertise
7) Spellsword 7
8) Spellsword 8
9) Spellsword 9 – Improved Expertise
10) Spellsword 10
11) Spellsword 11
12) Spellsword 12 – Improved Critical
13) Spellsword 13
14) Spellsword 14
15) Spellsword 15 – Blind Fight
16) Spellsword 16
17) Spellsword 17
18) Spellsword 18 – Toughness
19) Spellsword 19
20) Fighter 1 – Weapon Specialization
21) Fighter 2 – Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization
22) Fighter 3 – ESF: Discipline
23) Spellsword 20
24) Spellsword 21 – ESF: Transmutation
25) Rogue 1
26) Rogue 2
27) Rogue 3 – Armor Skin
28) Spellsword 22
29) Fighter 4 – Epic Prowess
30) Spellsword 23: Epic Mage Armor
Last edited by blksabbath74 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vincent
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:04 pm
Location: Vault 13

Re: Viability of Spellsword Multi-Class

Post by Vincent » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:36 pm

You probably want at least 21 wizard (spellsword) for this:

Weapons can be imbued using damage spells. This will grant the weapon a corresponding energy damage and an additional on-hit effect based on the energy damage of the spell. At level 21, spellswords gain Greater Imbue: They are able to imbue their weapons with two damage properties at once.

User avatar
Baron Saturday
Posts: 2052
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:34 am

Re: Viability of Spellsword Multi-Class

Post by Baron Saturday » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:42 pm

The fewer spellsword levels you have, the more vulnerable you are to being dispelled. I really wouldn't recommend fewer than 23 spellsword levels, and even that is kinda low.
Cortex wrote:dont listen to baron for good builds hes bad mkay

User avatar
The1Kobra
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Viability of Spellsword Multi-Class

Post by The1Kobra » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:55 pm

With a spellsword, you definitely want at least 21 Wizard for the epic mage armor and double imbue. Depending on your build, going 21 or 23 should be fine, though yes, a 21 spellsword does have a dispel vulnerability. Usually you want 4 levels minimum of a full BAB class to get the fourth attack, and then 3 levels of some tumble dump class. Of course, you can go 21/6/3 Wizard/Fighter/Tumble if you want EWS.

TimeAdept
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Viability of Spellsword Multi-Class

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:05 am

27/3.

blksabbath74
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:01 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by blksabbath74 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:47 pm

Kust updated with skeleton build.

liver and bones
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by liver and bones » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:18 pm

1. Avoid taking Weapon Focus so early; pick up greater magic weapon scrolls to substitute for them. Take Expertise in its place. You'll want Expertise early to help kite while using your unlimited Burning Hands from GSF: Trans.

2. You get a bonus wizard feat at 5, 10, 15, 20, 23, 26. I suggest also taking SF: Abjuration and Arcane Def: Abjuration at least by level 20.

3. You can't take Improv. Crit that early since despite spellswords getting a 3/4 progression spellswords doesn't exactly work with that progression when it comes to feats. You'll still follow the regular wizard 1/2 progression for feats meaning the earliest you can take improv. crit is level 16.

4. Take Blindfight way earlier. I suggest, in this order of feats, Expertise -> SF: Trans -> GSF: Trans -> WF -> Extend Spell -> Blindfight.

5. Don't worry about Improved Expertise being taken so early. Spellswords don't need it with their above average AC and negative imbues.

6. You can't take Weapon Specialization till you have 4 fighter levels (and naturally that means Epic Weap Spec can't be taken that early). Drop the fighter levels, maximize your imbue DC's and caster level. Your maximized Endurance is going to be offering way more as far as HP compared to taking 4 fighter levels, but it'll be pointless if it gets dispelled due to your low CL.

7. Go bard instead of rogue. Rogue doesn't offer discipline.

blksabbath74
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:01 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by blksabbath74 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:41 am

liver and bones wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:18 pm
1. Avoid taking Weapon Focus so early; pick up greater magic weapon scrolls to substitute for them. Take Expertise in its place. You'll want Expertise early to help kite while using your unlimited Burning Hands from GSF: Trans.

2. You get a bonus wizard feat at 5, 10, 15, 20, 23, 26. I suggest also taking SF: Abjuration and Arcane Def: Abjuration at least by level 20.

3. You can't take Improv. Crit that early since despite spellswords getting a 3/4 progression spellswords doesn't exactly work with that progression when it comes to feats. You'll still follow the regular wizard 1/2 progression for feats meaning the earliest you can take improv. crit is level 16.

4. Take Blindfight way earlier. I suggest, in this order of feats, Expertise -> SF: Trans -> GSF: Trans -> WF -> Extend Spell -> Blindfight.

5. Don't worry about Improved Expertise being taken so early. Spellswords don't need it with their above average AC and negative imbues.

6. You can't take Weapon Specialization till you have 4 fighter levels (and naturally that means Epic Weap Spec can't be taken that early). Drop the fighter levels, maximize your imbue DC's and caster level. Your maximized Endurance is going to be offering way more as far as HP compared to taking 4 fighter levels, but it'll be pointless if it gets dispelled due to your low CL.

7. Go bard instead of rogue. Rogue doesn't offer discipline.
Thank you. Also, what is the best Spell School to lose for a Spellsword?

User avatar
The1Kobra
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by The1Kobra » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:24 am

You want to take your 4 fighter levels before level 20, doing this will get you your fourth attack per round. If you want EWS, I'd recommend a 6 fighter dip.

The best school to ditch is probably enchantment. Losing mass haste hurts but you probably won't be able to slot too many of them since you'll use your 7th level spells for imbues most likely. That is unless you want to take ESF Enchantment. In that case, you're probably best off ditching divination. Losing True Strike and Premonition hurts but you can get by with greater stoneskin.

garrbear758
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:20 am
Location: Guam

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by garrbear758 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:35 am

27/3 is a much better option due to dispels, and I agree that enchantment is the best school to drop.

liver and bones
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by liver and bones » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:45 pm

The1Kobra wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:24 am
You want to take your 4 fighter levels before level 20, doing this will get you your fourth attack per round. If you want EWS, I'd recommend a 6 fighter dip.
@OP: If you go this route, remember you're losing 1d4 imbue damage and +6 to the DC of your imbues, which make up the majority of the spellsword class.

If you go this route, I highly recommend you somehow make the Fire, Cold, Sonic, and Magic imbues work for you. Maybe a Cold + Magic combination, if you can get your AB exceedingly high somehow. You can act as some sort of support that dispels and lowers an enemy's APR.

User avatar
The1Kobra
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by The1Kobra » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:37 pm

The damage on imbues is based on the spell level used to make the imbue. Once you get 21 wizard levels, that's where the imbue damage tops, since that's when you get 2 of them. Simply use L7-9 spells to get the most damage.

Now granted, more wizard levels do mean a higher DC. So there is a trade-off in splashing.

User avatar
Mattamue
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:45 am

Re: Viability of Spellsword Multi-Class

Post by Mattamue » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:30 am

Baron Saturday wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:42 pm
The fewer spellsword levels you have, the more vulnerable you are to being dispelled. I really wouldn't recommend fewer than 23 spellsword levels, and even that is kinda low.
Could you get around this by calling your imbues from scrolls or wands you make, and so having the mundane cater level for dispels?

Edit, nevermind, imbues have to be casted.

User avatar
The1Kobra
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by The1Kobra » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:01 pm

Your imbues and epic mage armor cannot be dispelled, but everything else (haste, shadow shield, stat buffs, etc), can be. You can mitigate this to an extent by getting arcane defense : Abjuration.

liver and bones
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by liver and bones » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:04 pm

The1Kobra wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:37 pm
The damage on imbues is based on the spell level used to make the imbue. Once you get 21 wizard levels, that's where the imbue damage tops, since that's when you get 2 of them. Simply use L7-9 spells to get the most damage.

Now granted, more wizard levels do mean a higher DC. So there is a trade-off in splashing.
The DC-triggered imbue damage (which includes the healing aspect of the negative imbue) is based off this: Xd4 is Wizard level/5 + 1*Imbue Tier.

So, your electric, acid, and negative imbues will be weaker than they could possibly be. The argument is to get at least 25 spellsword, but at that point you may as well go 27 as there's not much bard 5 will do for you unless you're desperate for +2 reflex.

User avatar
The1Kobra
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by The1Kobra » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:52 am

liver and bones wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:04 pm
The1Kobra wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:37 pm
The damage on imbues is based on the spell level used to make the imbue. Once you get 21 wizard levels, that's where the imbue damage tops, since that's when you get 2 of them. Simply use L7-9 spells to get the most damage.

Now granted, more wizard levels do mean a higher DC. So there is a trade-off in splashing.
The DC-triggered imbue damage (which includes the healing aspect of the negative imbue) is based off this: Xd4 is Wizard level/5 + 1*Imbue Tier.

So, your electric, acid, and negative imbues will be weaker than they could possibly be. The argument is to get at least 25 spellsword, but at that point you may as well go 27 as there's not much bard 5 will do for you unless you're desperate for +2 reflex.
Ah, I meant for the damage directly applied to the weapons. Tier 3 imbues add 1d12 (1d8 for magic), and at 21 you can add two of them, giving you a bonus 2d12 damage per hit.

The damage imbues aren't a per hit thing. WIth the electric, it only applies twice per round. Negative I think it's the same, though that does half the usual amount (but heals you for the same). Acid is once per round if it hits, but it can hit for multiple rounds.

I generally don't think the bonus at 25 is worth it, but it's a decision to make. I find that late game though my spellsword does most of his damage from his plain hits and the imbues are mostly useful for the debuffs. Fire/Cold in particular offers some nice stuff, though Sonic/Magic is really nice against casters.

mf_hansen
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 6:17 am
Location: Denmark EU

Re: 23 Spellsword/4 Fighter/3 Rogue

Post by mf_hansen » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:59 am

I think also that Weapon Specialization requires 4 Fighter levels specifically (see the nwn.wikia.com Notes). To obtain 4 attacks per round pre-epic levels you would need 16 Spellsword (or similar 3/4 base attack class) levels and 4 Fighter levels (from level 17 to 20 by the latest) which forces you into Fighter 5 in epic levels for Epic Weapon Specialization (since EWS can only be taken on a Fighter level).

Been a while since I played NwN:EE (still waiting on multicore and OpenGL optimizations for AMD cards), but the Character Build Calculator with arelith/nwn wiki and nwnecbguild forums have helped me a lot for previous characters.

EDIT: Lol I am not reading; others already suggested what I mention in the spoiler above. The CBC excel sheets and wiki are still invaluable though.
Send PM or find mf_hansen on IRC or Discord between 18:00-23:00 CET/CEST.

Post Reply