All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

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Kenji3108
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm

StrykerMontgomery wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:46 pm
Since you get so much out of your first flurry, you can easily do running away with monk speed and quick 3 shots between running.
Indeed! An important thing to note here is that if a hin is kiting and is hastened already, it's best to turn off Rapid Shot for 2 extra AB seeing that 7 APR still nets 3 attacks on the first flurry before breaking off again, which makes it even better!

No gear on con means a really squishy ranger, though. Maybe squeezing in SF/GSF: Abjuration somewhere is ideal.

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by WanderingPoet » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:43 am

As an aside, Darkfire gives 1d6 fire/negative with CL 30, and Greater Magic Weapon gives 5 damage with CL 30.
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:41 pm

Howdy folks,

Thanks for letting me know (through PM or public posts) about what the spells do for templates at which CL. They are much appreciated! If any 30 CL arcane casters can test out the listed spells, please do!

Also, if anyone has any input on whether they have survived high-end content or pvp without UMD (consistently, too), please do share your experience and your thoughts on the importance of UMD. I can only look at paper and numbers, the actual application and playing experience are what I can not cover all by myself.

Last but not least, for those who have play-tested some of the builds, please share your thoughts on the weakness, strengths, and perhaps improvements upon the available level spread if you can. It'd be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Kenji

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by The Kriv » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:53 am

Kenji3108 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:41 pm
Also, if anyone has any input on whether they have survived high-end content or pvp without UMD (consistently, too), please do share your experience and your thoughts on the importance of UMD. I can only look at paper and numbers, the actual application and playing experience are what I can not cover all by myself.
I played a Ranger(11) / AA(15) / Fighter(4) with zero ranks invested in UMD. This character was captain of the Myon Guard, but didn't participated in a TON of PvP because the character was 'also' a MoD.



As a dedicated Archer with zero UMD, she saw and actively participated in a crap-ton of end game content. Sailed all over the seas and accessed nearly all the end game content accessible by only ship. She traversed a large portion of the planes, and adventured extensively through hell, with numerous killing-shots of big-bad balors and often was the only one dealing decent damage against Paush over long long fights. even once defeating the big-bad-boss dragon of the Red Dragon Isle single-handedly.

Story-time: (names not important) The Group was My Zero-UMD Archer, A Melee Ranger/Rogue (UMD up the hoo-hoo), and Cleric (UMD unknown)... 3 elves Myon, Went to the Red Dragon Isle to retrieve some Adamantine.

Typical strategy employed... Archer distracts the dragon... rest of party deals with the mobs... when all the mobs are killed, everyone turns their attention to the Dragon and kills it.

As luck would have it... two individually altogether separate conditions came together with a third at exactly the most perfect moment.

Condition 1) Our Ranger/Rogue (Tank) successfully killed all the mobs of the Boss Fight, leaving ONLY the Boss-Dragon left.
Condition 2) The exact moment of midnight struck as the final mob died.
Condition 3) The 27th day of the month ended, and the 28th of the month began.

*POOF*

Tank turns into a level 30 werewolf. (as it turns out, a recent visit to the Forest of Despair yielded an unknown souvenir scratch)


Imagine our surprise, standing beneath one of the toughest dragons (if not THE toughest dragon)

If anyone has had a high-level character turn into a raging uncontrollable (aka helpless) werewolf, then you will know the frustration of constantly failing your will-save to regain control of your now aggressive lycanthrope attacking whatever is closest to it.

Luckily... our Were-tank, failed his fear-will save against the dragon's aura, and ran into a corner. Meanwhile, our cleric shifts into frantic-heal-mode trying to keep him alive from the whollops of the dragon's hits.

Luckily... the high-level AA was able to do enough DR-Piercing damage to kill the dragon without the help of the otherwise were-wolf'ized tank.

My little Arcane Archer (with zero UMD) was credited with the IC solo-kill of the dragon, of which she forever kept the head of that dragon as a personal trophy. (in all honesty, I think our were-wolf tank got a few good hits in there too, but it wasn't very long before he was cowering in a corner from the fear-aura.)



So.. and so goes the story of a zero-UMD archer character saving the party's bacon in end-game content. Let it not be said you can't survive end game content without UMD! ;)
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by TroubledWaters » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:42 pm

How bad is SD for an archer? I was thinking it could be good to get away and show up somewhere else on the map to start plinking away, but I realize I would be giving up 2 BAB and 6 damage from fighter.

Would look something like:

6 Bard
19 AA
5 SD

How bad would that be? Would SD be any use at all?

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:48 pm

The community has the general consensus that there are other ways of dissapearing that make the 5 SD usually not worth it. For example there is that gift that gives innate invisibility on cooldown. There are wands, potions, you corner sneak with blinding speed (you can also just reposition with said speed without hiding and continue to use called shot)

Ab and extra damage per range attack is pretty important. If you find yourself in a party, your contribution will be considerably less. Solo you can technically manage, but will probably just take longer.

*edit*

I would recommend against it.
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:54 am

With the new update to Keen Edge, Flame Weapon, Darkfire, can any of the arcane/divine casters test these on templates to check and see their properties on templates are changed, as well?

Thx.

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by The1Kobra » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:42 pm

I tested flame weapon with an earth stream, no change to the templates.

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Rigela » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:49 pm

Darkfire didn't seen to have any changes either.
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Invader_Nym » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:42 pm

Has anyone tried a level 26 bladethirst on an assembly template? I'm curious to see whether or not the damage goes up from 1d6 or caps there.

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Re: All Things Ranged builds

Post by Invader_Nym » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:50 pm

The Kriv wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:15 pm
Regarding DR, as I understand it, a ranger with 5 FE's meets the +5 requirement to bypass DR vs those 5 FE's

Yes AA is overcoming DR on every shot, but high Ranger investment does grant some DR relief as well.
According to the classical rules, bane of enemies adds +2 enhancement bonus vs favored enemies. This'd be easy to implement and I'd love for ranger to get +5 somehow, maybe with blade thirst at level 26, given that multiple other builds get +5 weapons here or sooner. It's in fact a bit whacky that I can get +5 on my weapons as a level 26 archer but not my bow! Requiring 26 ranger levels also precludes the possibility of adding 2 other classes, which is a substantial trade-off.

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Re: All Things Ranged builds

Post by The Kriv » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:52 pm

Invader_Nym wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:50 pm
The Kriv wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:15 pm
Regarding DR, as I understand it, a ranger with 5 FE's meets the +5 requirement to bypass DR vs those 5 FE's

Yes AA is overcoming DR on every shot, but high Ranger investment does grant some DR relief as well.
According to the classical rules, bane of enemies adds +2 enhancement bonus vs favored enemies. This'd be easy to implement and I'd love for ranger to get +5 somehow, maybe with blade thirst at level 26, given that multiple other builds get +5 weapons here or sooner. It's in fact a bit whacky that I can get +5 on my weapons as a level 26 archer but not my bow! Requiring 26 ranger levels also precludes the possibility of adding 2 other classes, which is a substantial trade-off.
Ah, yes. that was what my foggy memory was recalling. The +2 from the Bane of Enemies contributes to the overall total requirement in order to meet the +5 to bypass DR, which of course works only on those foes that fall in the category of Favored Enemy.

Is that ~not~ the case in Arelith? This is the bit I was recalling (admittedly incorrectly above) . So if you have +3 weapon, and use it against a Favored Enemy, with Bane of Enemies, the +3 enchantment gets a stacked +2 giving it +5 which enables you to bypass the DR. No?
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:17 am

That's not how Bane works in NWN unfortunately.

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:13 am

I had to get these terrible builds out of my head, so here they are. Apologies in advance in case they fester in your mind, too.

Ranger 21 / Fighter 5 / Paladin 4:
Lots of burst damage vs low AC opponents, very stingy stat spread, and a nightmare to gear! On top of no UMD and Tumble. Lowered AB compared to the other builds due to lower Dex. But, again, possibly the highest raw dmg output vs a low AC opponent. (Looking at mining for that purpose... But then a WM is perhaps more suited for that.)

Ranger 21 / Fighter 4 / AA 5:
Extra +3 AB and +3 dmg, but at the cost of UMD and Tumble. -2 AB and +4 dmg compared to Ranger 21 / AA 9

Most likely will not put them on the list, but if anyone's interested, I can have some fun making the spreads for these, too!

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Freyason » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:03 am

Blade Thirst at CL26: 1d6 Negative, Vampiric +4

No change. Was hoping I would get +5 vampiric like on my melee weapon, but not like I use shurikens a lot anyway so meh :)

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kaeldre » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:02 pm

In the original post about how the spells affect the templates, darkfire was mentioned. I didn't quite understand the part about '2d4 dmg of below cl20'. Would anyone care to enlighten me?
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Jack Oat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:07 pm

Kaeldre wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:02 pm
In the original post about how the spells affect the templates, darkfire was mentioned. I didn't quite understand the part about '2d4 dmg of below cl20'. Would anyone care to enlighten me?
Darkfire is a Cleric spell that, when cast on a Template, adds 1dX Fire and 1dX Negative Energy damage to it.
If the Cleric who casts it is at or over Caster Level (CL) 20 (AKA they have more than 20 Cleric levels), it casts as 1d6 Fire/1d6 Negative Energy.
If they have below 20 Caster Level (AKA they have fewer than 20 Cleric levels), it casts as 1d4 Fire/1d4 Negative Energy.
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kaeldre » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:40 pm

Oh, didn't realize you summed up both damage types. Thanks.
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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:14 am

I have been going over the builds to check for any possible inconsistencies such as getting Epic Dodge before getting 30 base ranks in Tumble or ESF: Discipline before getting 20 base ranks in Discipline.

Here's an update to Jack's Cleric 23 / Ranger 4 / Monk 3 Zen Archery build:
Original link
Copy n' Pasted n' Edited
The fixes are: Monk levels moved up to get that Tumble and Discipline to 20 base ranks in order to qualify for ESF: Discipline.
The spread is also non-human friendly now. For humans, Toughness and Blind Fight can be switched.

Here is also a draft for another upcoming Cleric 23 / Fighter 4 / Monk 3 Zen Archery build:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

The differences in between the two split (ranger and fighter differences) are the following:
1. Ranger dip gets 28 more skill points
2. Ranger dip gets 1 more epic feat
3. Fighter dip gets 4 more Flat Damage per Hit

Other possible zen archery builds are currently being looked at, possibly the Drow/Kobold crossbow builds.

Also, regarding Bard(5), Arcane Archer(10), Pale Master(15), Elf build, the ESF: Discipline will need to be moved up to lvl30, as well. That or simply take the 4th level Bard at lvl17, instead.

Please let me know if anything's amiss or can be improved!

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Dragonovith » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:29 am

I was reading this thread and ranged classes suddenly picked my interest. I have never built one, let alone played one, so I don't fully know how it works. I've attempted to create a Blackguard variant of the Paladin/AA build. So I'd appreciate opinions on how I could make it more optimal.

For instance, I'm not sure if that stat spread is the best one. I understand I could decrease INT a little bit, but I have chosen it because of skill points, for 14 INT gives me most things I want. Also, 14 CHA is too low. How could I make it better?

Half-elf and Spell Foci feats are there mostly for RP reasons, but I'd have no trouble changing them for more optimal choices.

How high would the AB be, and how much damage can I expect to deal with this build?

One last question, how would I go around gearing this build in terms of armor?

EDIT: Maybe it'd be a better idea to go Bard instead of Ranger, would it be worth the AB hit?

---

Arcane Archer(18), Blackguard(5), Ranger(7), Half-Elf

STR: 13 (25)
DEX: 15+2 (38)
CON: 12 (24)
WIS: 11
INT: 14
CHA: 12+2 (26)

01: Ranger(1): Weapon Focus: Longbow, Favored Enemy, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): Power Attack
04: Ranger(4): DEX+1, (DEX=18)
05: Ranger(5): Favored Enemy, Studied Enemy
06: Ranger(6): Spell Focus
07: Blackguard(1)
08: Blackguard(2): DEX+1, {Smite Good}, (DEX=19)
09: Blackguard(3): Greater Spell Focus
10: Arcane Archer(1)
11: Arcane Archer(2)
12: Arcane Archer(3): DEX+1, Blind Fight, (DEX=20)
13: Arcane Archer(4)
14: Arcane Archer(5)
15: Blackguard(4): Divine Might
16: Arcane Archer(6): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
17: Arcane Archer(7)
18: Blackguard(5): Divine Shield
19: Arcane Archer(8)
20: Arcane Archer(9): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
21: Arcane Archer(10): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22: Arcane Archer(11)
23: Arcane Archer(12)
24: Arcane Archer(13): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=23)
25: Arcane Archer(14): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=24)
26: Arcane Archer(15)
27: Arcane Archer(16): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline
28: Arcane Archer(17): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
29: Arcane Archer(18): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=26)
30: Ranger(7): Blinding Speed, Woodland Stride, Uncanny Dodge I

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:53 pm

A quick glance at the build, I believe you can do the following:

DEX: 15+2 (38) -> 14+2 (36)
CHA: 12+2 (26) -> 14+2 (28)

Trade one of the Great Dex with Epic Prowess instead.

What does this mean? AC-wise, as long as divine shield is up, it's the same.

AB-wise, it is also the same. It might be 1 reflex save lower, but that's livable since it's a dex build.

You gain 1 extra damage on divine might, 1 extra round of duration for divine might/shield.

Most important of all...
When you are examined, your Charisma is shown as high instead of average :mrgreen:

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Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)

Post by Kenji3108 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:49 am

I have went through the whole list of builds to double check for potential errors such as Epic Feats unavailable to certain classes' bonus feats. (Ranger's lvl 20 and 23 bonus feats and Fighter's can't take ESF: Discipline, for example)

Please double check if your build has its epic feat order changed! That and if I still have mistakes somewhere in the builds.

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