AC Question

[Cybernet21]

Alright so,is getting 46 AC consitently with cheap consumables(and IE active) enough for a level 22 character (paladin/fighter/CoT) or is it low?

I have no idea because i am unfortunately getting XP solo most of the times with the character unfortunately,so the enemies only have me as a target wich means getting a lot of time to hit.

[WanderingPoet]

Depends what you're fighting! Your best bet is to look at the combat log after a fight and see what the highest enemy AB is. You usually want at least 15 more than that (though of course 20 more than it is best).

Generally though, a level 22 fighter will have a minimum of 21 AB, and with strength/+x weapon be looking at 30-35. NPC fighters will have similar AB, most having at least 30AB and some upwards to 40. Of course as you get to high epics your foes start to have 40-50, or even higher.

46 is decent but you'll need more soon.

[Hunter548]

46 AC in IE is pretty low. It sounds like you're a two handed build though, so it's not as big a deal (Because two handers focus on killing squishy targets and winning via aggression).

[Cybernet21]

I'll be able to get to 50 once my character gets everything Adamantine and gets Armor Skin (at level 25) ,also remininding that the 46 i get with cheap consumables (aka barskin wand and cat's grace potions) not counting stuff like haste,shield enchantement(magic vestement),divine shield,etc..

Is it still low even after considering that? (Btw i am not two handed build,am supposed to be shield and sword is that AC number that bad for a supposedly tanky character? O_O)

[Alox]

Monsters will have up to around 40 AB. With 50 AC you can get hit as much as 50% of the time, which is too much for a tanky character.

base: 10 ac
full plate ada armor: +11 AC (armor slot)
dex bonus (max 1): +1 AC
ada tower shield: +6 AC (shield slot)
ada helm: +3 AC (deflection slot)
tumble: +3 AC (you cant get 6 as no roguish class)
fighter: +1 AC (assuming you have lvl 5, +2 if you have level 10)
armorskin: +2 AC
boots: +1 AC
bark skin: +4 AC (natural armor slot)
mage armor: +1 AC (only from the dodge part)

total: 43 AC

IE: 53 AC

(one really want +6 from tumble if one can.)

You should carry a haste wand for when you get groups of monsters. Maybe stone skin too to enable some initial health buffer for those situations. Shield spell can also give you +1 AC on top of your helm AC for, but I think the potions are rather short lived. Divine shield is important for you...

I would think that with 53 AC you should be able to find some places to grind xp, especially if you carry a ton of bandages and can afford to keep that going. But do you have enough offence with IE on? I would recommend teaming up with some damage dealer.

[flower]

At level 22nd i suppose he lacks these +6 Tumble and +2 Armour skin and as he said he does not own adamantite.

That makes a difference of 10 AC.

[Cybernet21]

I just don't have the armor slot and shield slot adamantine,the helm is so i can get 2 more AC from complete Adamantine set,There is 2 more AC i will get at 25 with Armor Skin;so by 25 i will have 50 AC with IE on and only Barskin and Cat's Grace. I will get 1 more AC when i get at level 30 from tumble (already have 10 on tumble,my build plan is have 15 Tumble).

So That's 51 AC by level 30,without counting Haste,Magic Vestement and Divine Shield wich all three i can get,is it still that bad? Also i guess i said wrong that the plan of the build is a tanky character,i guess the real plan is somewhere between damage and tankiness since i have tons of levels from CoT(10) on the build

EDIT:I forgot to add i will also get 1 more from level 5 FIghter at Level 30 so that's 52 by level 30

EDIT 2: At the moment it's:
Base: 9 AC
Ada Helm: +3 AC
Mithril Plate: +10 AC
Mithril Shield: + 5 AC
DEX Bonus (from cat's Grace): + 2 AC
Tumble: +2 AC
Boots: + 1 AC
Barkskin: + 4 AC

36

IE: 46

So i guess as Alox said,my best would be between 53-57 with IE active by level 30,is it still bad?

[Rooshi49]

I would say, while this is a question of AC. . . your AB should be high to counter the fact that you're using IE and you're a two handed melee build. What is your AB?

I think that having around 30 ish AB while retaining around 60 AC is pretty good. (With IE on) Its all about the trade off. If you're sporting a high AB, I would actually go for divine might instead of divine shield (unless you're getting both, then even better)

[Freyason]

To give you an idea, at 30 my CoT/P/F can self buff to 58, 68 in IE.

[Alox]

56-57 should be fine for most things I think

but dont go alone, get some team mates that can throw you some good bufs, and you will be golden

[Cybernet21]

56-57 should be fine for most things I think

but dont go alone, get some team mates that can throw you some good bufs, and you will be golden

Oh yeah definetly,the dungeons aren't designed to be soloed anyways

[ratoa]

Did you took into account your divine shield?

Or Paladin is just dip?

[Cybernet21]

Nope since it's a very short duration,with Divine Shield at my CHA with buffs i get to around 54;IE active

At level 30 it would get me to 60-62

[becherak]

Here's something to think about...
Some builds can reach 100 AC.
Just now I am lvling a guy that will have 73 AC naked without buffs.

[TimeAdept]

No build is reaching 100 AC and if it is you should post it because I do not believe you. Same for the 73 naked no buffs.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

No build is reaching 100 AC and if it is you should post it because I do not believe you. Same for the 73 naked no buffs.

I second this. Pics or it didn't happen.

[MineTurtle]

No build is reaching 100 AC and if it is you should post it because I do not believe you. Same for the 73 naked no buffs.

I second this. Pics or it didn't happen.

Likewise.

[Jack Oat]

Here's something to think about...
Some builds can reach 100 AC.
Just now I am lvling a guy that will have 73 AC naked without buffs.

The highest possible on Arelith is a Monk 5/Bard 5/Palemaster 20 Elf or Hin (which I'm not recommending or saying is viable in any sense) with around 90 AC in Imp Expertise, hasted, with EMA and full DEX/WIS buffs. 96 if-- IF-- you have a Bard buddy to slap another 6 AC on you from 25+ Bard Song. So you're about 10 AC short.

As for 73 AC naked, without buffs, also not gonna happen. Druids get close (I think? Druids aren't my strongsuit), but still rely on Barkskin and Cat's Grace at the least.

Sorry.

[becherak]

I'll post a character sheeth screenshot here later, When it's lvl 30.

Droold with 3 monk lvls. Not sure how the items stack on arelith though. Think that's pretty much the highest ac possible. Not in dragon shape though as they got nerfed for that. You just get way too high wisdom and dex. Maybe I'm wrong though, I hardly ever do the math before rolling with it, just counted that out of my head.

Edit: I just double checked the math.
10 base ac
+20 from having 50 dex (30)
+15 from having 40 wisdom (45)
+6 from having 30 tumble (51)
+20 dodge ac (71) you actually get more than +20 but it's capped at 20
+2 armor skin
73 AC no expertise, no shield of faith no armor bonus, no magic vestment no haste, no bardsong no barkskin

To get 50 dex and 40 wisdom I will need to cast 3 spells that last multiple RL hours. Sorry for the confusion but I don't considet those buffs, since I will always have that on as it gives no visual effects, and doesn't cost anything but 1% of piety I think.

Once I get to 30 (which is rather easy to do on that character, just takes some time) I will post screens somewhere. As I said I don't really do any hardcore math. I don't think this can break 100 ac, but will see. It all comes down to how the ac stacks and if you actually use your gear ac in shapes. I always thougth some sort of charisma pm with divine shield could break 100. But there's no point since you can't get ab to hit that. I think 80 is pretty much untouchable, PM actually need higher AC than all others since they get countered by smite evil, which gets more AB and dmg.

[Jack Oat]

I'll post a character sheeth screenshot here later, When it's lvl 30.

Droold with 3 monk lvls. Not sure how the items stack on arelith though. Think that's pretty much the highest ac possible. Not in dragon shape though as they got nerfed for that. You just get way too high wisdom and dex. Maybe I'm wrong though, I hardly ever do the math before rolling with it, just counted that out of my head.

The AC on those does get high, but not 100 high iirc.

[Miskol]

Highest I've gotten on a fully buffed druid/monk was 87 or 89, and that was with an epic bard song buffing. It shouldn't reach any higher than that.

[TimeAdept]

I stand corrected and forgot monk AC works in elemental form, my bad.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I stand corrected and forgot monk AC works in elemental form, my bad.

I see the math and agree the numbers are there- I just take issue with the claim it can be done naked and unbuffed. Even overlooking the two zoo spells and Owl's Insight, he's certainly not getting +20 dodge AC naked and unbuffed, so that drops you back to 53 with 63 if your build incorporates IE. 73 with IE on, if he's in certain forms.

Edit: Okay, so I haven't played a druid here, do the forms get +20 dodge AC instead of 10?

[WanderingPoet]

Here's something to think about...
Some builds can reach 100 AC.
Just now I am lvling a guy that will have 73 AC naked without buffs.

No build is reaching 100 AC and if it is you should post it because I do not believe you. Same for the 73 naked no buffs.

I second this. Pics or it didn't happen.

Likewise.

Lets see, mathwise... Assuming you have access to friends of every class that can give you the max buffs.

Max Dodge = 20 (Assume we hit the limit since there are so many ways to buff it)
Max Natural AC = 5 (barkskin/shadow shield)
Max Armor AC = 6 (6 if we're shape shifting in ranger leathers providing 13 out of form, or magic vestment on full plate for 14)
Max Deflection AC = 5 (shield of faith)
Max Shield AC = 5 (magic vestment on towershield for 8)

Dodge 1 AC
Armor Skin 2 AC
Small Size 1 AC
Svirfneblin 1 untyped AC
Tumble +6 AC
Improved Expertise 10 AC
14 palemaster AC
Max wisdom of 44 (with great wisdom for 20 + 7 + 5GW + 12soft(owl's insight)) and monk levels 17 AC
1 extra monk AC

Out of form you can't get the base AC from armour/shield and still have monk AC, since fullplate and towershield don't add anywhere near to 18 (not to mention dropping dex), they can be factored out.

Death Slaad form has highest dex of any polymorph that a non-epic druid has access to = 48 buffed dex

Total AC then would be on a 5 monk, 5 wizard(spellsword), 20 palemaster (which means no ranger leathers)
10 base AC
Dodge = 20 (Death Slaad form and EMA would be 15 on it's own, add a level 16 bard song for 20)
Natural = 5 (EMA)
Deflection = 5 (EMA)
Armour = 5 (EMA)
Shield = 4 (shield spell)
Dodge = 1 AC
Armor Skin = 2 AC
Small Size = 1 AC (I think this is lost on polymorph)
Svirfneblin = 1 untyped AC
Tumble = +6 AC
Improved Expertise = 10 AC
Palemaster AC = 14
Monk AC from wisdom = 17
Monk level AC = 1
Spellsword AC = 1 (assuming this stacks with shield spell)
AC from Dex (36 + 12soft (aov/cat's)) = 19

That's everything I can think of!
Total AC would be: 120-122 depending on small stature/spellsword ac

I don't think I mangled that or forgot anything, but it does go over 100!

[Cybernet21]

Good luck hitting something though