Sorc/Bard

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Barael
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Sorc/Bard

Post by Barael » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:50 pm

here is what im decided on for my character build

Sorc 26/Bard 4

Base Stats

13 Str
8 Dex
14 Con
8 Wis
14 Int
17 Cha

Pump Cha at every turn

Level Progression:
Sorc, 1-17
Feats Taken: Spell Focus: Evocation, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Toughness

Bard,18,19,20
Feats Taken: Heavy Armor

Sorc, 21-29
Feats Taken: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation, Epic Mage Armor, Automatic Still Spell 1 & 2, Hellball OR Greater Ruin

Bard, 30
Feats Taken: Automatic Still Spell 3

Skills: Concentration, Discipline, Spell Craft, Tumble, Use Magic Device... the rest into Healing.

what do you think ? any good ?

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Jagel
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Jagel » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:32 am

Why heavy armor? As a sorc you should avoid situations that leave you in melee range. If it’s for thematic/rp reasons then kewl, but otherwise dump it. Tumble too

Barael
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Barael » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:40 pm

I like the idea of being a pure caster in heavy armor with a tower shield. There's just something majestic about it to me even in a non RP setting. As for your suggestion, what would you recommend instead of heavy armor and discipline?

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Jagel
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Jagel » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:47 pm

Ah, go for the majestic feel. Perhaps take a class that gets you heavy armor prof instead of burning a feat on it? Or go with medium armor and tower shield (via bard lvls). The thing is that sorcs are usually a bit short on both feats and skill points so having to get the still spell feats (incl the three epic ones) leaves you with some hard choices.

You absolutely should get discipline. Tumble’s not that useful.

Barael
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Barael » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:08 pm

"Perhaps take a class that gets you heavy armor prof instead of burning a feat on it? "

I considered paladin for a long time... But one thing to remember is no classes with heavy armor have UMD and/ or Tumble to my knowledge... So imo it's not burning a pre-epic feat per se... It's just balancing him for endgame.

"The thing is that sorcs are usually a bit short on both feats and skill points so having to get the still spell feats (incl the three epic ones) leaves you with some hard choices."

I guess what worries me is I didn't feel like I made any hard choices or am feat starved. I have epic spell focus, Evo. Epic mage armor, and either hell ball or greater ruin in addition to auto still spell 3...and all my chosen skills are soft capped.

What feats /skills are missing from this build that you think I need as an offensive spell caster? Presume feats taking advantage of the nifty changes to spell focus and arcane defense? Possibly additional epic spells?

"You absolutely should get discipline. Tumble’s not that useful."

Sorry typed disc meant tumble good catch.I took tumble for the extra ac, so why not take it? Not dead set on Tumble by any means and would be fine taking taunt instead(just need to remember to use it lol)

Another worry I have is why you think armor is useless. Is it purely a playstyle thing or do you not think my AC will be high enough to do its job effectively? Between skills, buffs, and gear, I'm thinking my AC will be respectable... But I haven't even scratched the surface of itemizing yet so any insight would be appreciated

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Jagel
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Jagel » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:06 am

Usually empower, maximize and extend spell are brought up as important. Evocation buffs your burst dmg but conjuration is stronger as it really increases the strength of your summons and thus your uptime and staying power. Necromancy and transmutation foci are also better than evo in most situations. Oh and also epic skill focus discipline

As for AC you’ll need around mid 50s to be in a semi decent spot. But as a mage you really should avoid melee and in the situations where you find yourself being attacked in melee you should be able to rely on DR and damage shields.

*edit* By my calculations you will end up with barely 50 AC with maxed tumble and epic mage armor. Which also means your AC will be all but useles until late game.

Barael
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Barael » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:38 pm

Thanks for the feedback

I'm not a huge fan of using summons as part of an endgame build... Is it really that important/ a must have for a spell caster? I figured with enough burst, and respectable ac,I should be tanky enough without relying on summons, but I'm no expert and can easily see how summons would be very important depending on how mobs scale as you progress.

Also, our calculations match somewhat. when I came up with the build I calculated it with +2 ac items in every slot... epic mage armor, haste, and skills for a total AC of 54... If that number simply isn't high enough to keep me from relying on summons, and the absence of esf disc is a huge problem(I have to assume it is as I see it taken it almost every cookie cutter build on here) then suppose I have to concede this build is gimped.

At this point I could delevel once and drop still spell, that's the only feat I've taken that's really specific to my initial build. I suppose I could then go the more traditional sorc path, leveraging high level summons to tank for me.

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Jagel
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Jagel » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:24 am

The thing is that without summons or a party you will run out of spells very quickly.

Barael
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Barael » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:37 pm

My playsyle of preference would be to use an AoE spell or 2 and mop with issacs greater missles storm, hence the tankiness. I'd also be using acid sheath for things that can actually hit, as well damage reduction spells. Youre saying my spell book won't be deep enough to get me through many pulls in a dungeon before I need to rest? Or I won't even be able to get through a single pull before I die or run out of magic?

TimeAdept
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by TimeAdept » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:15 pm

You'll make it through like... 5 spawns. Ish. Like one level of a 4 level dungeon.

I love blaster mages, don't get me wrong, but it can't be your primary solo style.

Barael
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Re: Sorc/Bard

Post by Barael » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:56 pm

Yeah, which makes sense if much of the content is tuned for 4 player co-op(or more).... So is my only option a conjuration oriented playstyle if I'm going blaster mage? If not and there are other options, please share.

Hopefully wrapping things up....

Right now my goal is build "damage control"(don't get me wrong this game is fun but I really really don't want to reroll hah)

I'm lvl 12, pure sorc, I've taken sf: Evo, gsf:Evo, max, emp, extend spells, and still spell, in that order.

Let's assume that the playstyle I need to supplement the blaster playstyle with for the sake of efficiency is achieved with 3 feats(SF:X,GSF:X, and ESF: X)... For now I'll use conjuration as a stand in for X since that sounds pretty promising.

If I delevel I can drop still spell and pick up sf:conjuration... And plan to take gsf: conjuration next, leaving 1 pre epic feat to choose(recommendations welcome).

During epic levels If I drop auto still spell 1-3, I can pick up esf: conjuration and esf: disc, and have 1 epic feat to pick. Since I'm taking esf conjuration, the obvious choice here is dragon knight.

This leaves me with a few questions:

Is my build severely gimped by speccing deep into spell focus Evo to keep going?

What class to take to give disc? In either case, do I want 3 levels or 4.

Is mage armor worth taking since as covered above I should be avoiding AC checks to begin with? Assuming not, do I go for another epic nuke, giving me hell ball and greater ruin(maximizing the Value of esf: Evo) or is mummy dust the better option. With limited experience, pardon my ignorance here,I presume that 2 epic nukes will make me a boss fight hero, with the risk of things getting a little dicey along the way and maybe during the boss fight itself(but nothing that can't be overcome if I play well) where as multiple casts of epic summons will take my staying power to the next level,making both the road to the boss and the boss fight go more smoothly, but will take a bit longer to burn him down.

Lastly... Assuming I take levels in a UMD class, what is the point where further ranks in UMD no longer matter? Alot of the cookie cutter builds stop in the mid teens, but I've yet to see an explanation why... Though I'm sure there is a logical reason why, if someone could let me know for my own edification I'd appreciate it.

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