Totem druid build

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aledroid
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Totem druid build

Post by aledroid » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:59 pm

Hi, I need some suggestion for my totem druid build.

This is what I was thinking:


01: Dru(1): SF: Conjuration, GSF: Conjuration {Animal Companion, Nature Sense}
02: Dru(2) {Woodland Stride}
03: Dru(3): Expertise {Trackless Step}
04: Monk(1): WIS+1 (19)
05: Monk(2):
06: Monk(3): Wich feat shold I take?
07: Dru(4): {Resist Natures Lure}
08: Dru(5):WIS+1 (20) {Wildshape}
09: Dru(6)
10: Dru(7)
11: Dru(8):
12: Dru(9): SF: Transmutation {Venom Immunity}
13: Dru(10)
14: Dru(11)
15: Dru(12): Feat? WIS+1 (21), GSF: Transmutation {Improved Wildshape Forms}
...

Should I postpone the monk levels or is okay taking them early?
Wich feats should I choose?

I´m currently lvl 3 need to level to 4.

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Jagel
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Jagel » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:19 pm

Disclaimer: druid 30 is more powerful than the totem with monk lvls. That said the totem shape becomes incredibly tanky and with monk levels even more so. It doesn't quite cut it in ters of ab/damage to measure up to the lvl 30 druid with monolithic shapes.

The old spread for monk/druid was 24 drood/6 monk (for KD and IKD). I'd postpone the monk lvls until at least lvl 13 or so. Before that I'd deem the totem too weak to focus on and dipping early really messes with your caster lvl progression and make you dispel bait. I'd consider taking only three monk levels pre epic and one close to lvl 30 to max out discipline to get most out of your summons/animal companion.

aledroid
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by aledroid » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:50 pm

Thank you for the suggestion!

Other told me to wait as well, to take monk the last levels for maximizing tumble.

Would you take fully 6 levels of monk?

Also, I keep reading about builds comparison, even if for other classes. Does it mean that totem druid is not suite for PvP? Like realistically are there fair chances in PvP when confronting other classes or better builds straight up win every fight? In that regard what should I expect from this character?

Also what does it mean being a dispel bait? And how does having more caster levels oppose to that?

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Re: Totem druid build

Post by imgoinginane83 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Dispel bait means that you will be easily dispelled by casters. Its not a fun thing to fully buff up and that one mob, just dispels all your buffs. Its even more of a slap in the face when its a lesser dispel.
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Jagel
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Jagel » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:01 pm

The strongest totem druid will be a lvl 30 druid who takes a totem animal but the strength will lie mainly in summons, spells and monolithic elemental shapes. Totem shape is handy as it has very high survivability but past lvl 26 when you gain infinite elemental shape the totem shape will be less useful and it will be outclassed in all areas when you reach lvl 26. This means a druid without the totem animal will be better as she does not have to worry about the utter frailty in humanoid shape because of the -4 to physical attributes. The strongest druid build these days also takes Epic Damage Reduction which requires 21 con which is a big no with the above penalties in mind.

A monk/druid who focuses on the totem shape is not weak, mind you. It makes for a very durable tank but you will have to rely on others to dish out damage. Your animal companion, summons, party members etc.

I haven't played a druid/monk so take this with a grain of salt but if I were to make one I would probably go 17 druid for lvl 9 spells and some totem power then three lvls of monk, then druid again until the last lvl which were I'd take monk for the last bit of discipline and tumble. You will loose 1 ab this way but the alternative is taking another monk lvl later to go 16/4 pre-epic or not take any monk levels in the epic levels.

24/6 adds some nifty things like improved KD, extra speed and +1 ac but at the expense of power for your epic summon, animal companion and the last totem buff (at lvl 26).

When it comes to PVP shapechangers are usually in a bad place because PVP is mainly about burst and avoiding burst. Your monk/totem will generally do fine when it comes to negating burst with a ton of AC and a zillion HP, but you will have no way of applying burst damage without summons and summons can be banished/dismissed (and are generally not optimized the same way player characters are for obvious reasons).

As a 3/4 ab class you will have a mediocre BAB to begin with. You will lack a weapon which is one of the main ways to boost your ab. Quick math says you will have an ab of 35-40 tops which is in the mediocre range. Your damage output will be lowish too: your range will be something along the lines of 15-21 (a bit higher fully buffed) and a x2 crit multiplier which means you will be hard pressed to have a max damage around 50 and you will be seriously gimped in the face of damage reduction.

The totem bond adds tons of rp flavour so by all means take it if you have a fun concept in mind then go for it (with animal companion and elemental swarm you can have five totem animals acompanying you so a swarm of rats or bats, a colony of spiders, a pack of wolves or what have you). I have a lvl 25 druid/ 5 ranger and he feels quite powerful (even though the nerf to Dragon Shape hurt him). You really don't need an optimal build to have fun and a druid monk is not weak at all. Simply not a class A build when it comes to high lvl pvp or the highest lvl content.

aledroid
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by aledroid » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:37 pm

Thank you for the detailed explanation and the leveling guideline. The feedback I received so far were single lines and it was a bit hard to interpret them.

For now, the way I'm playing the game is how I would play DnD so I don't mind not playing a competitive PvP class, I mostly play for Rp and yeah I have nice ideas about this druid. I just wanted to be sure it would still be okay if I had to PvP a bit. I understand is not fair, but I'd like to have a small possibility that in the right condition against the right opponent I could win. Or at least have enough ac/hp to dissuade people for randomly PKing me.

I like the idea of 6 level of monks since I guess knockdown would work okay against mage classes?

Another separate concept I was liking to develop was Monk/shadowdancer. But I don't like much how SD is implemented in nwn, and for what I saw the cookie cutter builds for monk usually don't take shadowdancer so I might end up with another non competitive character.

Also am I correct that armor values don't matter with shapeshift/polymorph? Just magic modifiers are added (not cumulatively) .

Lurch
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Lurch » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:57 pm

How about a parrot totem druid 25 / harper paragon 5 that pumps charisma for divine saves/ac/damage synergy?

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Ebonstar
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Ebonstar » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:04 pm

since your mainly going for RP flavor, i would ask why monk levels at all.

even though allowed mechanically, monks and druids are direct opposites in the spectrum
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:26 am

Ebonstar wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:04 pm
since your mainly going for RP flavor, i would ask why monk levels at all.

even though allowed mechanically, monks and druids are direct opposites in the spectrum
Because thats how some people play their druids in actaul DnD. They don't see how they are ay odds either often due to either their misunderstanding of monk and or druid.

In all fairness though, the shifter prestige class, where identity lies in the sole, can be very monk like in Philosophy and it comes out of the druid class.
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Regionals
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Regionals » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:24 am

With the dragonshape changes and monolith elemental shapes added monk/druid is no longer a broken powerbuild.. It's lackluster at best, though the speed and stealth could be nice. If someone wants to take it, I say let them be. How many monk dipping rogues, etc are there out there who never talk about being a monk either?

I personally suggest- if you can wait that long- take the monk levels as late as possible. That way you don't have to de-level too far down if you change your mind.

aledroid
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by aledroid » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:06 am

Ebonstar wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:04 pm
since your mainly going for RP flavor, i would ask why monk levels at all.

even though allowed mechanically, monks and druids are direct opposites in the spectrum
I don´t see why would they be so far away. Druidic orders can exist as much as monastery ones. I personally believe it wouldn't be hard to have a monastery where people are formed both as monks and druids. You can have a monastery devoted to nature as well. Or even to a god. And in faerun druid have to have a diety.

Even on the core books you can find under red avengers that "[...] druids find that the study of ki energy
can offer new insights on the natural world."

I think that having a variety of type of monastery, orders, characters, just makes the world feel so much big. If everyone was playing a stereotypical character it wouldn´t be so interesting.

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Ebonstar
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:09 am

aledroid wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:06 am
Ebonstar wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:04 pm
since your mainly going for RP flavor, i would ask why monk levels at all.

even though allowed mechanically, monks and druids are direct opposites in the spectrum
I don´t see why would they be so far away. Druidic orders can exist as much as monastery ones. I personally believe it wouldn't be hard to have a monastery where people are formed both as monks and druids. You can have a monastery devoted to nature as well. Or even to a god. And in faerun druid have to have a diety.

Even on the core books you can find under red avengers that "[...] druids find that the study of ki energy
can offer new insights on the natural world."

I think that having a variety of type of monastery, orders, characters, just makes the world feel so much big. If everyone was playing a stereotypical character it wouldn´t be so interesting.
monks train to become a perfect singular entity and eventually become outsiders, while druids embody the entirety of nature and the balance of the natural world in all its appearances.

they are diametrically opposed in design. its not that you don't have orders of both. but again not saying don't do it as mechanically it is allowed
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Dr. B
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by Dr. B » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:06 pm

Beside the point, but I think there are nice ways to thematically combine monk and druid RP. For example, Shinto and Taoism are both monastic traditions that place a special attention on the natural world, and someone could draw on themes from them in RP. I always thought the monks becoming outsiders thing was kind of silly, and it doesn't happen on Arelith at any rate.
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Totem druid build

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:12 pm

Dr. B wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:06 pm
Beside the point, but I think there are nice ways to thematically combine monk and druid RP. For example, Shinto and Taoism are both monastic traditions that place a special attention on the natural world, and someone could draw on themes from them in RP. I always thought the monks becoming outsiders thing was kind of silly, and it doesn't happen on Arelith at any rate.
I think the outsider part is tied to buddhism. They have become enlightened and are no longer attached to wordly things (or of any for that matter as they bow are an outsider on their own home plain). But your right, there are other monastic traditiona and not all mobks becime outsider, certainly not a totem monk druid build.
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