Ranger/rogue/sd

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Ioria92
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Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Ioria92 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:24 am

I would like to try this build, 21ranger/5sd/4rogue, but i do not know where to start. Any suggestions?

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Wytchee
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Wytchee » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:04 am

If you're going that far into Ranger, 5 levels of SD is redundant unless you absolutely NEED Hide in Plain Sight in non-natural areas.

Rangers get HiPS in wilderness areas at level 16. Rogue already nets you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge.
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Ioria92
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Ioria92 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:11 am

But i gain the shadow clone and sneak attack! Going 2 weapon too.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:22 am

The shadow clone at 5 SD, on a level 30 character, is beyond useless. Especially on a ranger, who will have a companion and possibly empathied creatures anyway. If you want to use the SD companion, I'd suggest going at least 13 SD.
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:29 am

One Two Three Five wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:22 am
The shadow clone at 5 SD, on a level 30 character, is beyond useless. Especially on a ranger, who will have a companion and possibly empathied creatures anyway. If you want to use the SD companion, I'd suggest going at least 13 SD.
I had assumed it was for epic dodge. But yeah i wouldn't try fitting just 4 rogue and 5 shadow. If you reallly wanted the 5 SD, that 4 rogue could be 4 fighter which could give you epic weapon specialization (way better than 2d6 sneak). Or even 25 ranger; giving another favoured enemy, increasing its bonus, improving blade thirst and keeping your animal companion more relevant.
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Alox
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Alox » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:35 pm

21 ranger, 6 monk, 3 rogue seems better, go quarterstaff and deal out tons of damage.

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by One Two Three Five » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:58 pm

You can't get epic dodge with a 5 SD only.
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StrykerMontgomery
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:08 pm

One Two Three Five wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:58 pm
You can't get epic dodge with a 5 SD only.
Yeah looks like you are right! Sorry I forgot rangers were given only evasion.

*EDIT*

I second everyone's notion that the 5 shadow dancer is a waste.
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Opustus
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Opustus » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:02 pm

Two basic builds you could choose between are Ranger23/Fighter4/Rogue3 (Ranger20 pre-epic) or Ranger10/Rogue3/SD17 (Rogue3/Ranger9/SD8 pre-epic). But there are many workable variations of both!
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Ioria92
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Ioria92 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:17 am

So ranger can't fit with sd? I'd really like to do a ton of damage with 2 weapons, side to side with my shadow clone. Is impossible?

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One Two Three Five
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by One Two Three Five » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:05 am

For what you want you want a Lot of SD levels. 13+ minimum.
A popular one is an SD/Fighter/Rogue half-orc, strength, since they get ambidexterity for free.
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Wytchee » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:36 am

Ioria92 wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:17 am
So ranger can't fit with sd? I'd really like to do a ton of damage with 2 weapons, side to side with my shadow clone. Is impossible?
Ranger can fit with SD, but you need more SD levels than Ranger levels to make it worthwhile.

I am planning on running a 10 Ranger / 6 Rogue / 14 Shadow Dancer sometime. Saves on feats 'cause of the Ranger's natural access to dual wield. Works great with a quarterstaff.
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Peppermint
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Peppermint » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:33 am

Free ambidexterity on the half-orc isn't as big as you'd think. Shadowdancers already have to invest at least 13 points in dexterity to pick up dodge and mobility. Moreover, you're two points of intelligence and 66 skill points short as a half-orc (when compared to a human), generally necessitating further investment there. In short: it's a wash. You either invest 15 dex 13 int (as human) or 13 dex 15 int (as a half-orc).

The big advantages of the half-orc variant are the bonus to strength (netting +1 AB) and the half-orc only weapons (netting yet another +1 AB). If you're not planning a double weapon SD, the human variant becomes more appealing, with the trade off being 1 AB vs. 33 skill points.

Ioria92
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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Ioria92 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:13 am

Doing an orc wasn't really the idea that i had in mind.... So, which other builds go with sd? Maybe weapon master or spellsword?

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Re: Ranger/rogue/sd

Post by Tourmaline » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:56 am

Spellswords are a big no. They can't have any summons which means no SD shadow.

Weaponmasters need too many feats to work. You'd have to be a fighter/ WM/ SD and you'd be cross-classing all the skill points which is a big waste. It's just barely possible to do but really not worth it or better than a straight up fighter/rogue/SD. No UMD either.

You don't want any caster class actually. You need too many caster levels to make it work.

Basically you need at least a few bard or rogue levels for UMD and access to hide, MS and tumble. You can survive without UMD but it's a better experience with. Assassin is a possibility too but you have to apply for it.

Then you need a melee class.. FIghter is probably the easiest and most flexible. Monk, Barbarian and Ranger are solid "maybes" if you know what you are doing.

I'd strongly suggest 14 or 17 SD levels, 7 fighter levels (6 pre-epic assuming you take 10 SD levels before 20) and the rest rogue. Start with rogue for the most skill points.

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