Slave Pure Warlock with Gift of Humility- Do-able?

[Senshi]

Hello,


I was thinking about a creating a Pure warlock that starts as a slave and has been malnourished and beaten for most of his/her life. This would be the catalyst that drives the warlock to make the pact and obtain power to escape his/her oppressors.

The malnourished and beaten aspect would be represented with the Humility gift and i was thinking i might add a minor reward (undecided) to bring it to -3 ECL. The idea would be to gain power fast.

Race - Human
Base stats - STR 12 DEX 12 CON 14 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA 15
Feats - Toughness - Blind Fight
Gifts - Humility
Class Warlock - Aby
After Gift Stats - STR 10 DEX 10 CON 12 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 13
Background - slave +1 fort save -1 will save

So the questions i have are:

I understand i need 16 CHA to use all warlock skills. Is this still correct?
Would i be best using med armor or a robe?
I was planning on using a spear and a shield. Any better suggestions?
As it will be my first underdark start. Will i be able to escape the under dark and live on the surface fine?
Is this idea do-able? How?

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome as Im very new on making builds and dont want to mess it up to badly.


Thank you.

[BegoneThoth]

I'd use a different build, that looks really, really, really bad.

And don't 'main' a humility character, pick two stat gifts and the crafting gift.

[PinataPlethora]

It would be doable if you were starting on the surface and also not a Warlock.

In the UD, everyone is going to kill you for being weak, and on the surface, everyone is going to kill you for being a Warlock.

It'll definitely be an interesting story, but I would give serious consideration to just how much tedium you're willing to suffer through, as a player, before continuing becomes unpalatable. I think leveling is going to be very frustrating until mid to high teens.

The only really viable option I see for long term survival in the UD is to be a completely submissive lapdog for someone in a position of power. Once you get to the surface, you'll need a whole lot of Bluff to keep your identity secret, and you'll probably want to be in the good graces of another seedy character up there.

But, if all of that is the story and experience you're looking for, you're set!

[Baron Saturday]

From a RP point of view, what you've got here looks interesting.

From a mechanical point of view, what you've got here looks like a trainwreck. Sorry.

Generally speaking, a warlock wants 16 cha (for spells) and at least 21 con (for the epic damage reduction 1-3 feats) by level 20. 14 int is also very helpful for skills. Warlocks tend to wear chainmail and use large shields and a staff or weapon of choice.

Here's what I would do:
10 str/12 dex/16 con/14 int/10 wis/14 cha
Take con and cha gifts to bump those up to 18 and 16 respectively. Put AT LEAST 3 stat points (preferably all stat points...) from leveling into con. I would NOT suggest taking gift of humility until you know Arelith a bit better and understand what you're getting into by doing so.

You will level plenty quickly without a gift of humility, I promise!

[BegoneThoth]

You can also RP being a weak slave and still be a solid build. Just because your build makes you a hella slayer doesn't mean you have to play that way, you can act however you want.

[susitsu]

Being a Gift of Humility character, which can be done quite easily for a warlock, weapon master, cleric, wizard, ect...really doesn't mean anything about having to be weak mechanically. My Gift of Humility chars have certainly not had issue with people in the UD mistakenly picking fights.

I'd not encourage the idea you're going to just "be killed for being weak," either. That doesn't fall in line with the described attitude of the server at all. I'm fairly certain most players are here to "create" rp from a situation, let alone the fact that any slave who is useful is fairly safe.

Ive PMed you a build.

[Cortex]

the real redpill is that all the lil meek characters are ultra power builds

[BegoneThoth]

Being a Gift of Humility character, which can be done quite easily for a warlock, weapon master, cleric, wizard, ect...really doesn't mean anything about having to be weak mechanically. My Gift of Humility chars have certainly not had issue with people in the UD mistakenly picking fights.

I'd not encourage the idea you're going to just "be killed for being weak," either. That doesn't fall in line with the described attitude of the server at all. I'm fairly certain most players are here to "create" rp from a situation, let alone the fact that any slave who is useful is fairly safe.

Ive PMed you a build.

I would never recommend a gift of humility anything, much less a weapon master, which now has to get even more stat points to make up for the ones you lost via humility, and you can't take the feats and then lose stats as that's literally cheating.

Please don't send out a gift of humility build if you think it "really doesn't mean anything about having to be weak mechanically."

[Tourmaline]

I think gift of humility is something that had value a year ago but is a worse trap for new players than any "trap path." With the quest system everybody gets the same amount of xp rewarded no matter what their ECL so the speed of leveling a humility character is only marginally faster. It really ought to just be removed so people who don't know better aren't stuck.

So yeah.. don't take it. We can argue about how weak it makes you or not all day but since monster kills are a smaller part of the equation now there's just not that much advantage.

You may as well start with 2 ECL from con & cha. gifts (you need 21 con by level 24 to get all 3 EDRs and you want 16 cha as soon as you can) and gift of crafting, though I might take the +6 bluff instead if you don't plan on crafting much but do plan on disguising. 10 or 12 str. for carrying capacity, 10 dex, at least 14 int for skill points, wisdom is to be ignored and warlocks are by definition not wise people anyway.

[Senshi]

I think gift of humility is something that had value a year ago but is a worse trap for new players than any "trap path." With the quest system everybody gets the same amount of xp rewarded no matter what their ECL so the speed of leveling a humility character is only marginally faster. It really ought to just be removed so people who don't know better aren't stuck.

So yeah.. don't take it. We can argue about how weak it makes you or not all day but since monster kills are a smaller part of the equation now there's just not that much advantage.

You may as well start with 2 ECL from con & cha. gifts (you need 21 con by level 24 to get all 3 EDRs and you want 16 cha as soon as you can) and gift of crafting, though I might take the +6 bluff instead if you don't plan on crafting much but do plan on disguising. 10 or 12 str. for carrying capacity, 10 dex, at least 14 int for skill points, wisdom is to be ignored and warlocks are by definition not wise people anyway.

I was unaware the ECL does not effect Quests. However it still seems to increase the exp gain while completing the quests.

I need to decide if the impact is indeed still work the struggles faced.

[afreshstart]

UD is not somewhere that PvP happens all the time and is unavoidable, I played several slave characters and none of them were put in situations where PvP was unavoidable. But unlike Cordor if your character tries to throw it's weight around and make threats it'll find out very quickly if it can back them up.

You can get away with the gift on a warlcok but it's bteer if you didn't take it on your first character and as others said you want 16 CHA and hit 21 CON with level ups.

[susitsu]

I would never recommend a gift of humility anything, much less a weapon master, which now has to get even more stat points to make up for the ones you lost via humility, and you can't take the feats and then lose stats as that's literally cheating.

Please don't send out a gift of humility build if you think it "really doesn't mean anything about having to be weak mechanically."

I can promise you Ive played enough Gift of Humility characters to know all of this is fine.

Let alone the fact that warlocks aren't even bad, and haven't become bad. Fiendlocks especially haven't lost the value peope think it has.

Big PvP fights often see your summon literally irrelevant. Warlocks are dangerous because quickened flare. Because hasted ice storm in a time stop. Your DPS is entirely based on your levels in warlock. Warlocks are good on the basis that they are warlocks.

This is exactly why conlocks are even a thing and the build Ive sent them features edr 1-3.

They don't have a weak build available to them. Gift of humility means only faster leveling, the real difference between you and other players is an illusion created and maintained by your roleplay.

So no, I'm not going to discourage players from doing what they want and enjoying it, especially with how many characters Ive leveled so far.

[Void]

Hello,


I was thinking about a creating a Pure warlock that starts as a slave and has been malnourished and beaten for most of his/her life. This would be the catalyst that drives the warlock to make the pact and obtain power to escape his/her oppressors.

The malnourished and beaten aspect would be represented with the Humility gift and i was thinking i might add a minor reward (undecided) to bring it to -3 ECL. The idea would be to gain power fast.

Race - Human
Base stats - STR 12 DEX 12 CON 14 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA 15
Feats - Toughness - Blind Fight
Gifts - Humility
Class Warlock - Aby
After Gift Stats - STR 10 DEX 10 CON 12 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 13
Background - slave +1 fort save -1 will save

So the questions i have are:

I understand i need 16 CHA to use all warlock skills. Is this still correct?
Would i be best using med armor or a robe?
I was planning on using a spear and a shield. Any better suggestions?
As it will be my first underdark start. Will i be able to escape the under dark and live on the surface fine?
Is this idea do-able? How?

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome as Im very new on making builds and dont want to mess it up to badly.


Thank you.

Trying to bring power very fast with negative ECL is not a good idea, because as you level up the bonuses will diminish. I wouldn't bother, but this is your decision. I just don't see the point and don't take this gift myself.

Your stats as a fiend warlock are not very important. You'll be able to bash things with a morningstar and shield the same way - if you REALLY want to, because you'll get bull's strength spell, which will bring your strength to at least 15. However, the better option would be flaring opponents (because you'll have medium attack progression), except that you'll have 10 dex, meaning your flares will miss more often. The "13 cha" issue can be solved with a few enchanted items, and you'll be able to scrollcast every single arcane spell in existence.

Basically, prior to level 16 you'll only get one level 4 spell that requires 14 charisma, and it is not incredibly useful.

Regarding "killed for being weak"... I've yet to see this happen in Underdark.

So, I'm not seeing any issue here.

Most likely on arelith you'd be able to level up a fiendlock that has 13 cha and 6 in every other stat, if you really wanted to.

[Sab1]

PVP is a lot more tame in the UD now than what it use to be. Like on the surface it happens and it's more common with some players. But the UD is not a pvp murder fest. With writs I seriously don't think trying for a lower ecl is worth it anymore.

[PinataPlethora]

With writs I seriously don't think trying for a lower ecl is worth it anymore.

It's absolutely not, if you're using it for faster leveling. GoH is for RP only, or ECL balance on a crafting city dweller.

With writs, I leveled a +4 ECL character almost as quickly as a 0 ECL Spellsword.

[TimeAdept]

With writs I seriously don't think trying for a lower ecl is worth it anymore.

It's absolutely not, if you're using it for faster leveling. GoH is for RP only, or ECL balance on a crafting city dweller.

With writs, I leveled a +4 ECL character almost as quickly as a 0 ECL Spellsword.

Yep, completely agreed.

[BegoneThoth]

They don't have a weak build available to them. Gift of humility means only faster leveling, the real difference between you and other players is an illusion created and maintained by your roleplay.

So no, I'm not going to discourage players from doing what they want and enjoying it, especially with how many characters Ive leveled so far.

Gift of humility is weak, and I don't understand what "the real difference between you and other players is an illusion created and maintained by your roleplay" but whatever.

[susitsu]

The concept writs are better than circle-grinding is an actual joke.

I suggest level a few gift of humility characters to 30.

[Baron Saturday]

As you can see, Senshi, we're passionate about builds in this section of the forum!

Truthfully? As long as a warlock has 16 charisma for its full spell list, it will be playable. It will be substantially weaker than it could be otherwise, and you will have to play a lot more carefully and probably need a friend for going some places (my cha-focused greaselock did not mix well with flying enemies, let me tell you...), but it will be playable, because warlocks - especially fiendlocks - are, at their core, notable mainly for being reliable damage-dealers with stompy summons, neither of which really relies on build.

I still don't recommend gift of humility, mind, because to hit the 16 cha/21 con marks, you'll have to make sacrifices in other areas that will decrease quality of life in some areas, if nothing else. Things like lower carrying capacity, lower AC/blast AB making for more painful early levels, less skill points, possibly VERY low wisdom, and so on. Actually...

Ive PMed you a build.

Could you PM the build to me as well? I'm curious to see what sacrifices you made to make the build work.

[susitsu]

Sure-to be clear, I don't generally write these builds and deviate for personal roleplay choices. This googledocs I'm sending you, amongst others, were all made by the guys who taught me back when I was still learning to build and thus it's more reference material Ive seen all played out in aggressive circle grinding characters to level 30.

[Sab1]

The concept writs are better than circle-grinding is an actual joke.

Your attitude is adorable, but go level a few gift of humility characters to 30.

I simply find circle grinding to be one of the most mind numbing dullest things to do. Do writs every day and you are going to lvl plenty fast.

[Baron Saturday]

susitsu and I are looking at some strangeness involving the GoH warlock build, so if you were think of using that, hold off! It doesn't seem to work in its current state.

[Tourmaline]

I am sure an Arelith veteran who knows every dungeon inside and out can endlessly circlegrind a humility character and level faster than someone doing writs, but is this really what a new arrival should be doing? The success of that depends heavily on knowing exactly what to expect. This game is very easy when you know what to expect, but if you're flying blind, not so much at all.

I just don't see it as being good advice when the quest system gives plenty of XP, plenty of gold and plenty of adventure XP plus facilitating making contact with other players. That is not an insult to anyone's expertise at making builds. But I don't think any new player should be encouraged to take GoH.

If you are afraid of ECL, simply don't take any ability bonus gifts. You can make a 0 ECL human warlock, still get the 21 con/ 16 charisma you need easily and have some free skill bonus gifts to boot. If you do writs every day you can level to 21+ in a month or less of relatively casual play, combine writs and some adventuring and it will go even faster. RP being malnourished, that doesn't mean you can't have a high CON (if anything, the high CON could be what keeps them alive in slave conditions!)

[Baron Saturday]

Okay, having seen the GoH warlock build, I can confirm that it would work for circlegrinding dungeons... and that's about it. It gets a pitiful 4 skill points/level, so you can max discipline/concentration/spellcraft and get to choose between heal/tumble/bluff/whatever. It has a carrying capacity of 90 lbs, meaning that if you're going the chain shirt/large shield/spear route, you'll only have 42 pounds left for EVERYTHING ELSE. It gets -1 to AC and ranged touch attack, so will have pitiful AC even for a fiendlock (especially considering that you'll probably not be getting tumble) and your early levels will involve lots of never hitting anything with your warlock blast.

I cannot recommend playing a GoH fiendlock if you want to enjoy your experience. Sorry, susitsu.

[susitsu]

Properly fair points, and the player actually did ask me for a non-gift of humility build immediately afterwards, for which they were supplied.

I do believe they settled on a one-gift regular warlock.

Though I should really note the absolute irrelevance of AC to a warlock beyond early levels. You never rise up past what you have and it's simply not something you regard later. You get hit when you stand still and blast as a fact.