bardin the storm

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lumberjack13th
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bardin the storm

Post by lumberjack13th » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:48 am

First time making a bard any suggestions for spells? gonna try areliths bard+paladin.

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telmarael
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by telmarael » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:11 pm

I would suggest not bothering will spells. Bards aren't really spellcasters on PWs with 20+ levels. Selfbuffing is good and all, but you should either be aiming for the highest song possible and build a support character (with the majority of bard levels), or a bard dip for either skill dump or RP purposes.

I was trying to build something like bard 20\PDK 6\fighter 4 when overpowered PDK was still a thing, but now it's rather dumb. If you are willing to be a dedicated support, something like bard 20\pdk 7\paladin 3 might actually work quite well. You won't be a super-hard-hitter, though you will have standart reliable AC with your full plate+tower, invaluable bardsong + all the skills from PDK. You will lose out the pdk10 bonuses, but gain a huge saves boost from CHA modifier (which is always better, if you ask me). Feat-starved, yet you should still be able to get all the required defensive feats.
I'd go something like that:
Race: Human
Abilities: STR 18 (gift included) +6 from levels
Dex 8
Con 16 (gift included)
Wis 8
Int 14
Cha 15(+1 from levels)
1 Bard: Expertise, Curse song
2 B
3 B: Imp Expertise
4-6 Paladin
7 PDK
8 PDK
9 PDK: blind fight
10 PDK
11 PDK
12 PDK: KD
13 PDK
14 B
15 B: Imp KD
16-30 Bard: You get weapon focus, epic weapon focus, Armor skin, ESF Discipline, Lasting Inspiration

Finishing the PDK early to get the buff capability of the class, as the song won't be too reliable until epics. Might actually be worth thinking of taking SF and GSF Transmutation over weapon focii. Or abj focii for IGMS resisntance? idk, I'm a chimaera builder. You could also push paladin to 28-30 to get lasting inspiration earlier, but I'd not recommend it - saves and fear resistance are more important, imo.


As an alternative, you might ignore PDK completely and go for Bard\paladin\fighter instead. Will have a lot more feats to toy with, but no PDK perks. In that case you might actually be capable of taking the spell focii for super-duper zoo buffs or weapon spec without losing anything.

I have played a simmilar build on PW with 20 levels, and it was quite a decent off-tank with oh-so-needed buffs\debuffs for the party, where it really shined. In pvp you can either run or wait for an eternity before you get killed, as you are practically unreachable for DC casters and their crowd control and really hard to KD.
- "I would rather not touch this shiny pile of gold", said her conscience
*sounds of explosion*

lumberjack13th
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by lumberjack13th » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:40 am

thanks for reply i didn't think of trying out pdk always forget it's even a class hmm. was considering the fighter but actually pdk seems like a good idea since i don't need to jump into fighter for heavy armor and weapons i think pally has all that. so what is good about transmutation spell focus? I mostly played this game as a fighter and rogue to avoid spells normally. i was thinking dispel would be strong on bard; could remove annoying buffs and buff my allies.

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telmarael
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by telmarael » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:13 am

lumberjack13th wrote:thanks for reply i didn't think of trying out pdk always forget it's even a class hmm. was considering the fighter but actually pdk seems like a good idea since i don't need to jump into fighter for heavy armor and weapons i think pally has all that. so what is good about transmutation spell focus? I mostly played this game as a fighter and rogue to avoid spells normally. i was thinking dispel would be strong on bard; could remove annoying buffs and buff my allies.
As I've mentioned earlier - you mainly don't cast spells as a bard in a fight, unless you want to end up being unable to equip your fullplate back due to the gear switching limitation in combat. Besides, your CL won't be high enough to forego the DC on player, non-potion buffs. If you want to be a dispelling melee - try the spellsword.

I'd actually wait for other people to evaluate the build I've proposed or give their own, because most min-maxers would call it "no-damage". The sole purpose is making a perfect support, though.

On the spell focii: I strongly advise you to study through all the feat changes on wiki. It is worth it for a new player. GSF Transmutation gives you +1 stat to all 'zoo buffs' (+ bull's, cat's....etc). As I've mentioned, it's probably a bad choice for a melee support class that focuses on non-dispellable songs and pdk skills to support and buff his/her allies, while debuffing the enemy. Your CL will be very low anyway, and you will be very vulnerable to dispelling. Absolutely unreliable. It doesn't imply that you shouldn't use your own buffs, but don't expect them to hold for long against a spellcasting enemy.
- "I would rather not touch this shiny pile of gold", said her conscience
*sounds of explosion*

Dr. B
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by Dr. B » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:52 am

telmarael wrote:I would suggest not bothering will spells. Bards aren't really spellcasters on PWs with 20+ levels. Selfbuffing is good and all, but you should either be aiming for the highest song possible and build a support character (with the majority of bard levels), or a bard dip for either skill dump or RP purposes.
Not sure how to interpret this avice, but the Bardadin can, should, and ought to use buffing spells to work effectively, needs to be able to use them in combat, and should also take still spell, which I notice the build above is conspicuously lacking. Give yourself haste, wounding whispers, ethereal visage, mage armor, protection from alignment, and the standard compliment of zoo buffs. Stilled haste is a staple of your performance, and ethereal visage will prevent someone from disabling your bard song with a silence wand, which very extremely important in PvP. By not using spells you're gimping yourself badly. Use them. That's why they're there, and they're part of the reason Bards (if built properly) are one of the most powerful classes on the server.

Your class spread is 20/6/4 Bard/Fighter/Paladin. Your pre-epic spread is 12/4/4 Bard/Fighter/Paladin. Take Bard from 1-3, Fighter from 4-7, and Paladin from 10-12 and again at level 15; the rest should be Bard. On hitting level 20 take two more fighter levels then put the rest into Bard. Going PDK will leave you very feat starved. Don't take transmutation focus, either, or any spell focus feats. You don't need them and don't have enough feats to fit them.

To reiterate: you absolutely want still spell. Ethereal visage is an extremely important spell, and you need to be able to cast it at a moment's notice. A two-minute haste is also much preferable to the one minute haste you get from chugging a potion, especially since several seconds of that haste are needed to buff up. Again, this is why you want still spell. Assuming you use Templar Armor (which you should), unequipping it to buff means you will lose spells due to the -3 charisma loss from removing it. Another reason to take still spell.

I'll say it again: still spell.

Here's your feat list:

Pre epic
Expertise, Curse Song
Blind Fight
Weapon Focus
Power Attack
Improved Critical
Weapon Spec
Knockdown
Divine Might
Divine Shield
Still Spell

Post epic
Epic Weapon Focus
Epic Weapon Spec
Improved Expertise (yes, you will have to sink an epic feat--it doesn't matter, because this is the most optimal route to go and the build depends on it)
Armor Skin
Lasting Inspiration

Max out Discipline, Concentration, Taunt, Perform, Spellcraft, and put 7 ranks in UMD and 30 in Tumble.

Congratulations. You're now one of the most uber characters on the server. You can achieve 64 AC and the functional equivalent of 63 AB if you have Bardsong up and your opponent is taunted and affected by curse song. Activate Improved Expertise and those numbers become 74 and 53, more than sufficient to be a nigh-invincible tank with excellent damage output. With all your buffs, including divine might, you can crit in the 100's. With divine grace, Bard Song, and spellcraft, you also have amazing saving throws.
Be careful who you are dealing with when asking for build advice on these forums. Your best bet is to go to the buildnmechanics section of the Arelith Discord and listen to those who have green "Git Gud" tags.

lumberjack13th
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by lumberjack13th » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:59 am

thx for the insight DR it seems fighter works better then; it really helps to know a bit about the spells to pick. Im surprised the forum is so active :P you guys are all great here.

Dr. B
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by Dr. B » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:09 am

Oh yeah, and your stat spread (if human):

Strength: 17 (15 + gift)
Dex: 8
Constitution: 16 (14 + gift)
Wis: 8
Int: 14
Cha: 16

Put all points as you level up into strength, finishing at 24. Enchant gear to augment your strength and charisma (at level 30 you should be able to attain 36 and 28, fully buffed with all your gear, and you'll be able to attain 28 charisma well before then); then, once you have the time, money, and an epic enchanter friend, add constitution.

Trust me dude, this thing's potent. I play the Blackguard version, which is somewhat weaker, and even then it is ridiculously effective in combat.
Be careful who you are dealing with when asking for build advice on these forums. Your best bet is to go to the buildnmechanics section of the Arelith Discord and listen to those who have green "Git Gud" tags.

lumberjack13th
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:45 am

Re: bardin the storm

Post by lumberjack13th » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:49 pm

I don't see anything that is glaring me in the face that i need to min max with strong gifts here. I am thinking of picking up gift of humility with it; how much would it hurt this build do you think?

TimeAdept
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by TimeAdept » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:50 pm

The only reason to have gift of humility is to roll the character and you're trying to level it up faster.

The only reason to not take all your gifts is because you're taking gift of humility to roll the character, and having a higher ECL is counter to doing that faster.

Take all your gifts.

Dr. B
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by Dr. B » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:48 pm

lumberjack13th wrote:I don't see anything that is glaring me in the face that i need to min max with strong gifts here. I am thinking of picking up gift of humility with it; how much would it hurt this build do you think?
Gift of humility categorically makes your character worse. There is no reason to take it unless you want to level up that character quickly to roll it and take an award. And you should take both of those gifts, strength and con. There is no good reason not to take them. The extra ECL will be worth the benefits of this build and the exp penalty will not be an impediment to leveling up. Once it gets to level 8 it already has UMD, Weapon Spec, Full Plate, Expertise, Taunt, Mage Armor, Spellcraft for saves, Bard Song, and Curse Song, allowing it to handle very well both solo and in a party, being able to tank and do damage against appropriately leveled foes while also supporting the party. Power Attack is also useful: you can be reasonably bulky without expertise up, then taunt a foe and hit them with +5 damage, +10 on a critical hit. The exp penalty won't matter because you'll be killing a lot more monsters. When you acquire divine grace at level 10 you'll have very comfy saving throws, making you immune to a lot of spells and breath weapons, and once you get to level 12 and pick up divine might, you'll already be able to crit in the 60s, fully buffed and with good gear, and will be able to get AC in the upper 40s or low 50s. Once you get to level 15 and take Divine Shield, you'll be able to get AC into the low 60s, fully buffed. Who needs an exp boost from Gift of Humility when you can just steamroll dungeons?

A weakness of this build is that it is a bit low on HP due to having to invest in strength and charisma. This is why you need gift of endurance.
Be careful who you are dealing with when asking for build advice on these forums. Your best bet is to go to the buildnmechanics section of the Arelith Discord and listen to those who have green "Git Gud" tags.

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flower
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by flower » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:46 pm

Just curious, what feat to drop on elf?

The only option in this paladin-fighter-bard seems to me to drop weapon spec and epic weapon spec.

Edit: Or knockdown, coudl use ring for it

Astral
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by Astral » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:29 pm

flower wrote:Just curious, what feat to drop on elf?

The only option in this paladin-fighter-bard seems to me to drop weapon spec and epic weapon spec.

Edit: Or knockdown, coudl use ring for it
Probably knockdown, I think. There arent many options. Must have blind fight and divine feats. You can overlap Divine shield casts now so expertise drops in priority, somewhat.
Y'wanna buy sum deathhh stickssss?

Dr. B
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by Dr. B » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:13 pm

flower wrote:Just curious, what feat to drop on elf?

The only option in this paladin-fighter-bard seems to me to drop weapon spec and epic weapon spec.

Edit: Or knockdown, coudl use ring for it
Drop improved crit. Keep KD. TS pot + KD is important.
Be careful who you are dealing with when asking for build advice on these forums. Your best bet is to go to the buildnmechanics section of the Arelith Discord and listen to those who have green "Git Gud" tags.

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flower
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Re: bardin the storm

Post by flower » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:24 pm

Dr. B wrote:
flower wrote:Just curious, what feat to drop on elf?

The only option in this paladin-fighter-bard seems to me to drop weapon spec and epic weapon spec.

Edit: Or knockdown, coudl use ring for it
Drop improved crit. Keep KD. TS pot + KD is important.

there is a ring with KD :D

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