New Spellsword Building Thread

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New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby yellowcateyes » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:00 pm

Here's a new thread now that Spellsword has been tweaked. Combining the update thread posts, the class currently looks like this:

http://forum.arelith.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25&start=175#p112685 wrote:Spellsword Path:
Requirement: Wizard with General spell school (no specialization)

* Gain martial weapons proficiency at lvl 1
* INT bonus to Damage, limited by Wizard Levels / 2
* Base INT bonus to Dodge AC, limited to 1 plus 1 per 6 Wizard levels (AC 1 at lvl 1, AC2 at lvl6, AC3 at lvl 12 etc) and is only gained IF the offhand is empty (no shield/two handed weapon/bow)
* D6 HP per Wizard Level
* 1 Discipline per 3 Wizard Levels
* +3 CL against dispels

Whilst the wizard is the dominant class:
* +1 AB at Wizard Level 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, 27
* 1 APR at Level 1, 2 APR at L8, 3 APR at L15, 4 APR at L22 (Note that these will not appear on your character sheet)

In addition, Spellswords lose access to:
* One spell school of their choice. Conjuration cannot be chosen as their prohibited school.
* All summoning, creation and binding spells.
* All epic level spells except Epic Mage Armour.
Last edited by yellowcateyes on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Baron Saturday » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:08 pm

Are you sure the AC bonus still keys off of Int? The update wasn't clear on if that was an AC limit or just a flat AC bonus gained at those levels.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby yellowcateyes » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:10 pm

Baron Saturday wrote:Are you sure the AC bonus still keys off of Int? The update wasn't clear on if that was an AC limit or just a flat AC bonus gained at those levels.


Nope, I am not sure. Clarification on that would be good.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:27 pm

I'd think most would surpass the INT modifier for the new AC changes. The highest seems to be at ECL 30, which would work out to 6 AC. That's only 22 INT. So while it was unclear, I doubt it will be a factor for most.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Opustus » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:17 pm

The more I think about this, the design seems to favour pure mageyness over steep investments into combat proficiency. The base perks for going Spellsword to vanilla Wizzy is that you get more defence stats and pass for a fighter in the absence of a burly summon to do the fighting for you. Harper Mage seems very kewl with this class, going Wizard25/Harper5. Arguably though, you have access to many disablers and crowd-control to help you level the field in terms of swordfight.

Statting out DEX and maxing INT with Divine Power for steroids in toe-to-toe sounds very efficient!
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:13 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Baron Saturday wrote:Are you sure the AC bonus still keys off of Int? The update wasn't clear on if that was an AC limit or just a flat AC bonus gained at those levels.


Nope, I am not sure. Clarification on that would be good.

Keys off BASE int now too, sorry that got omitted (still shouldn't be a problem)
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby yellowcateyes » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:15 pm

Kirito wrote:Keys off BASE int now too, sorry that got omitted (still shouldn't be a problem)


Neat. I'll edit the OT to reflect.

Quick question: Does the prohibition on 'Creation' spells include undead? I take it that someone who dips 4 PM on a Spellsword won't be able to create undead anymore?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:14 pm

yellowcateyes wrote:
Kirito wrote:Keys off BASE int now too, sorry that got omitted (still shouldn't be a problem)


Neat. I'll edit the OT to reflect.

Quick question: Does the prohibition on 'Creation' spells include undead? I take it that someone who dips 4 PM on a Spellsword won't be able to create undead anymore?


Correct! All summoning, create, binding and sword spells have been disabled
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Astral » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:44 am

My take so far is that now you have to choose between the dodge ac (if you plan on having 22 or more base int to match what you'd get from addy shield) and a shield, which offers some damage immunity as well. Also mithril tower shield should perhaps help the poor saves so at the bottom line the only scaling combat stat you get from your effective int is the damage bonus which still caps at CL/2 so that's nice and allows some dex builds not suck on the way. Over all it's narrowing the path's options imo.

Edit: But then I forgot about the CL, which tilts it back in favor of the path's versatility and allows more mundane lvls to be taken without losing to mord's instantly.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby yellowcateyes » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:46 pm

Here are some sample Spellsword builds using the new rules. If you can spot any errors or see ways they can be improved, don't hesitate to point them out.

DEX-Based:

27 Spellsword / 3 Bard
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/JA43JHP8
AC = 62, 72 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Dodge + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 1 Mage Armor + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [15 BAB + 7 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 420
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT
Caster Level: 27, 30 vs Dispels
Misc: Ease of leveling due to full caster progression from 1-20.

23 Spellsword / 4 Fighter / 3 Rogue
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/HBUHfD8Z
AC = 61, 71 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 4 INT Dodge + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 1 Mage Armor + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 41, 43 with GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 436
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 23, 26 vs Dispels (28 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats

24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/0WsvRTDP
AC = 59, 69 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Dodge + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 1 Mage Armor + 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin]
AB = 43, 45 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 444
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats, no UMD

---

STR-Based:

24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/sCx4FbH8
AC = 56, 66 in IE [10 + 1 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 1 Mage Armor + 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 8 Plate Mail + 6 Addy Tower Shield]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 STR + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 474
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] + 13 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 1 Free Pre-Epic Feat (2 if dropping Toughness), no UMD. Auto-Still Spell enables full armored casting.
Note! - Going 2H Weapon is an option. Pre-IE AC drops to 50, and your AB without GMW improves to 44.


Notes:
  • Given contributor comments regarding Tenser's and Divine Power usage by Spellswords, I did not build with either of these two spells in mind. Stat and level spreads can be optimized further by making use of their effects, but such builds may end up SOL if the spells are indeed changed.
  • Stat spreads assume a near-minimum base INT to qualify for circle 9 spellcasting, with the rest of stat progression going into melee attributes. Going heavier into INT would drop the spellsword's AB to high 30s, and getting appropriate epic spell school focii would involve sacrificing melee feats. At that point, you're likely better off making a Wild Mage.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby boggle99 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:12 am

I was just wondering if a Spellsword assassin build would work. Possibly Drow, Ideally having ESF Illusion and Divination for flavor (does the ESF illusion double still work if you are a spellsword?)
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Astral » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:28 am

boggle99 wrote:I was just wondering if a Spellsword assassin build would work. Possibly Drow, Ideally having ESF Illusion and Divination for flavor (does the ESF illusion double still work if you are a spellsword?)


Don't go assassin. ESF illusion, unless it gets nerfed in the future, should work properly for spellsword and the double should have the spellsword bonuses to combat stats.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:30 am

Astral wrote:
boggle99 wrote:I was just wondering if a Spellsword assassin build would work. Possibly Drow, Ideally having ESF Illusion and Divination for flavor (does the ESF illusion double still work if you are a spellsword?)


Don't go assassin. ESF illusion, unless it gets nerfed in the future, should work properly for spellsword and the double should NOT have the spellsword bonuses to combat stats.


The double should not get the bonuses, it isn't you, it can not interact with the weave, it shouldn't be able to get the bonuses that come from manipulating the weave.

Also ESF extra functionality is likely to be removed in the future (with the next major update).
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Griefmaker » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:09 pm

I am totally going assassin. And a full int/dex second build!

Ideal? Probably not. Interesting and fun because one has to wield a crapton of tactics to survive and thrive? Yep! Plus no messing up with spell casting or worrying about ASF or anything like that. Sounds like a perfect skirmisher who can control the battlefield and have a pile of exciting spells to play with as well.

This is a class that has a lot of different potentials for "fun" if one is not solely focused on how to squeeze out every last ounce of power, which is how it should be.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Orian_666 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:25 pm

Kirito wrote:Also ESF extra functionality is likely to be removed in the future (with the next major update).


Just to make sure I'm assuming this is strictly for the Spellsword rather than over all, right?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:23 pm

Orian_666 wrote:
Kirito wrote:Also ESF extra functionality is likely to be removed in the future (with the next major update).


Just to make sure I'm assuming this is strictly for the Spellsword rather than over all, right?


Yeah, spell sword.only. they arent epic mages...
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Jack Oat » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:45 pm

Kirito wrote:
Orian_666 wrote:
Kirito wrote:Also ESF extra functionality is likely to be removed in the future (with the next major update).


Just to make sure I'm assuming this is strictly for the Spellsword rather than over all, right?


Yeah, spell sword.only. they arent epic mages...

Will this be for ALL ESF spells? Or will certain remain, namely -project_image?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:43 am

Jack Oat wrote:Will this be for ALL ESF spells? Or will certain remain, namely -project_image?
assume all ESF spells.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby boggle99 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:22 am

Could they keep scry? Pretty please. It is a epic spell with little effect aside from rp, (there is even a way for unmagical people to use it on the module). Also the idea of a spell sword assassin who scrys on his targets just sounds like a fun addition to the server. Adding to the paranoia of targets. Even more so if he can still project his image to scare the crap out of them.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:49 am

boggle99 wrote:Could they keep scry? Pretty please. It is a epic spell with little effect aside from rp, (there is even a way for unmagical people to use it on the module). Also the idea of a spell sword assassin who scrys on his targets just sounds like a fun addition to the server. Adding to the paranoia of targets. Even more so if he can still project his image to scare the crap out of them.

Assume that they can't.

Fundamentally, the path is about introducing a new Class that provides something very different to what it is based on. To this end, an arelith spellsword will be an epic spellsword at epic levels, not an epic mage. All the nice bonuses that epic mages do or will get will generally not be available to spellswords.

Instead they (will) get different things.

So if you want to play a mage that can scry on people from their own bedroom and send an image of themselves in armour holding a sword to another character... make a mage with armour and weapon proficiencies, ESF illusion and divination and let the RP flow.

Or if you want to play a mage that has focussed on magical martial combat to the point that he can engulf his blade with a magical fire hot enough that it will melt his enemies armour... hit that spellsword button ;)
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Nitro » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:03 pm

To this end, an arelith spellsword will be an epic spellsword at epic levels, not an epic mage. All the nice bonuses that epic mages do or will get will generally not be available to spellswords.

What about the ESF abilities that aren't epic at all in the fluff? For example, in the P&P, mages can teleport and perform scrying well before getting anywhere near levels 20+.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Kirito » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:12 pm

Nitro wrote:
To this end, an arelith spellsword will be an epic spellsword at epic levels, not an epic mage. All the nice bonuses that epic mages do or will get will generally not be available to spellswords.

What about the ESF abilities that aren't epic at all in the fluff? For example, in the P&P, mages can teleport and perform scrying well before getting anywhere near levels 20+.


Simply, this is Arelith not P&P. In arelith they are epic abilities for a mage. :)
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Opustus » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:03 am

Parry seems stronk, but I can't decipher the wiki text! "Parried attacks have +5 AB and damage bonus equal to half the parry skill up to 20 ranks, and 1/4 beyond 20 ranks." +5 bonus equal to half the parry skill, what?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Nitro » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:56 am

Opustus wrote:Parry seems stronk, but I can't decipher the wiki text! "Parried attacks have +5 AB and damage bonus equal to half the parry skill up to 20 ranks, and 1/4 beyond 20 ranks." +5 bonus equal to half the parry skill, what?

When you perform a riposte attack, which you get if your parry check exceeds the attack roll by 10 or more points, you get extra damage to it in Arelith by the formula posted. So if you had 60 ranks in parry, you'd get +20 to the damage of your riposte.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread

Postby Opustus » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:01 am

Egad! I'm so grabbing ESF Parry. Does the AB bonus count towards the +20 cap?
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