Those in the Shadows

[Alchuilas]

Just a slew of rough ideas, to help those classes based around shadows and stealth. They seem to be hurting most right now:

(Some of these were mentioned on the old forums as well)


Shadow-dancer: Unless those summons are getting an even BIGGER boost than all other summons thus far, this class will almost never be a very viable option to go pure classed. It's geared toward a dexterity based character, yet offers no damage what so ever, not even a high attack progression. Hell, it doesn't even have bluff as a class skill. So in addition to those summons boost that will come at some point, someone mentioned inherent concealment. That sounds great. Every four levels, another self-concealment feat. So 10% concealment at 4, 8, 12, 16, and capping at the 50% for 20 levels in shadow dancer.


Assassin: Furthering the abilities of an assassin from pen-and-paper, more once per day spells.
Level 13 - True Strike
Level 15 - Fox's Cunning
Level 17 - Camouflage (Pass without trace)
Level 19 - Freedom of Movement


Rogue: To encourage pure-bred skill monkeys, accumulative synergy bonuses towards specified skills. So perhaps, upon creation the rogue chooses one of three paths -- Utility -- Sneak -- Liar. Every five levels giving them a +1 to either, disable/set-trap, hide/move-silent, or bluff. Resulting in only a +6 to those respective skills.


Monk:
http://arelith.com/node/142509


And finally, some suggestions to help Dexterity builds at large:
As discussed on the old forums, a change to parry. Simply put, putting sneak-attack damage towards ripostes.

Going to insert some hidden kudos here. The theme the dev's seem to be taking to nerf the likes of clerics and dragonshapers, is to instead boost everybody else. I love this trend.

It is in this regard, I'll mention potions of transmogrification that allow Umberhulk true-sight, familiars with high detection or outright true-sight, environmental penalties to stealth, true sight scrolls, shape-change scrolls, bat-totem, dragon-shape, the fact that only the detector is given a skill roll, and then all the magic classes that can cast the spell them self. So without-further-a-due ... Hide in Plain Sight. Not really sure how best to implicate it, but it's the one of the very few things I can think of to help hurting dexterity builds (epic rangers included in that).

[Alchuilas]

Ah, and another idea. Though not sure which class it works best for. Calling it Shadow-Step, fits Shadow-dancers, calling it Dimension Door, makes it fit assassins (though I really feel like rogues need the boosts here)...

Something like the malar panther's pounce ability. Helping these builds close the distance.

[BornToCrave]

These classes tend to dominate end-game era, but these suggestions are so awesome! Me want!

[Yellena]

You can bet SD will have a sweet summon as soon I finish the Undeads.
As for Assassins, they have UBER DC on Death Attack if pure already.

[Alchuilas]

The DC for assassins can be nice, true, the primary issue is that many of the high-end monsters are immune to sneak attack, thus immune to the paralysis. Moreover, in terms of PvP there's a wandable spell that makes one immune to it, in addition to the difficult requirement of needing to attack a target not currently in combat (and even at that, now they have to actually fail the save). Finally, assassins aren't given any routes to epic dodge, nor discipline, so pure classed assassins are the epitome of one-trick-ponies. That fails, then you're boned.

On a slightly unrelated note, I'm bouncing excitedly in my chair, in anticipation of that undead revolution.

[What_Evil_Lurks]

Pure would be 20 Assassin. That's a base of 30 DC +Int +Int gear. But yeah, assassin needs nothing. It is good.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Those monk variations are pretty cool, but I'd just point out that monks are rather credible on their own. They have a weak early progression (from 3 to about 8 or 9) but from level 9-20ish they are extremely awesome.

They fall off late game, if anything, which is (not surprisingly) when you see a lot of monks multiclass into rogue!

[Xarge VI]

There's no way I believe going pure shadowdancer isn't a viable option after seeing one in game.

[livingNPC]

Assassins get higher DCs to their death attack with each level... why do they need a greater excuse for more levels?

[Winter83]

What can encourage pure-bred skill monkeys are challanged for skill-monkeys.

Optional routes, optional secret chambers with high lockpick / disarm requirements, npcs whom you can bluff into giving you extra this&that, pickpocketable goodies.

I have a pure rogue (who has not reached epic levels, playing him as an archeotypical thief). My experience that he's as good in combat as a whiny cowardly thief should be. And get a ton of skill points to customize my character into a direction I want him to be. Plus profession specific enchanted gear helps it alot.
Never felt the need of a mechanical advantage to be honest. My only beef that I cannot truely play out a lot of thief-themes due to mechanical limitations :
-burglary , due to stupid high player quarter DCs
-forgery, no mechanism exist
-fencing, black-market: stolen goods dont really exist. illegit merchandise aside slaves neither (want to smuggle in imps-in-the-boxes)


I'd rather see more rogue roleplay toys.
Parry would be nice tho to be repaired or balanced somehow.

[Alchuilas]

As for the assassins, It was touched upon in a prior comment, as to why they could use more love, livingNPC. Read further up.


I would agree with Winter83, as well. Truth be told, I feel like rogues are lacking but I simply couldn't think of anything interesting to suggest as an idea, and thus came up with the above. Winter's notion of roleplay toys though, seems way more appealing.

Maybe something like the ability to forge someone's name on a written letter, that has a DC based off rogue levels, that is then countered by someone's Search score + d20 roll, to realize as a fake? Having only one rogue level, forging a signature, would instigate only a 21 DC + your INT modifier. Dunno'.

The notion about secret doors does seem rather awesome as well. Maybe some stringent climb checks and secret doors in various areas... like a hilltop that breaks LoS so the sneak can maintain proximity while still following, or a "secret door" that gives access to a secret crawl-space above the roof -- ideal for assassins and spies.

I would also note that Khayal can't really be held as the standard of shadow-dancers, because of the monk levels thrown in, along with what I assume was dual stat'ed gear with strength. One instance, doesn't define the norm. Any one can take monk levels, even out their attack progression, gear up their strength, then appear good. Five attacks at 38 AB, and high strength? Yes please.


That being said, Winter83 inspires some more ideas...

- Adequate bluff unlocking the ability to dye your characters skin, hair, weight, and maybe even gender, given a high enough score. For bards (Actual bards, none of the paths), rogues, and assassins. More interesting still, could be if this all occurred at a mirror,of which there was only one of, hidden some where among the servers.

- Perhaps some manner of a Death Mark? Using the command -mark Nathan, would for example, perform a -hidden- ranged touch attack on the character "Nathan" if they were within range, and upon a successful hit, it would point out their location to you. Maybe like the -guard command, this mark would flash above your characters head with a text along the lines of, "In your mind, you see visions of ______" and in the blank there would be the name of the map, in which your marked target currently resides; say ever six minutes like a RPR tick? Again like the -guard command, to be rid of it, you could simply -mark (your own characters name) to deactivate it, or it will automatically be washed in the next reset. For more regular details, or introducing a gradient scale of accuracy, this could be based off one's UMD skill.

[Alchuilas]

Throwing out another idea; not something to help current classes, but rather, a new path for rogues.


Spy Master -- Near literal take on the prestige class.

As a rogue, that loses half of their sneak attack damage, in exchange for very spy like boons.
So Levels 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25, 29 -- These would not give the bonus 1d6 sneak attack damage, as it would for a normal rogue. Those odd levels in-between however, would still.

Instead,

Level 1: Immunity to the Paladin's Detect alignment, and if Death Marks were ever implemented, the Spy Master is the only class that auto realizes they have been tagged (maybe even the ability to see if others are tagged, through the use of *looks*).

Level 2: +4 to bluff.

Level 4: Slippery Mind, the feat.

Level 5: +4 to Persuade

Level 6: Iron Will

Level 8: Bonus Save Slot for appearances.

Level 9: Innate ability to change skin tone, hair color.

Level 12: Scrying always fails against the Spy Master

Level 14: +5 to Lore, Appraise, Search

Level 17: Another Bonus Save Slot for appearances, along with the accumulative bluff & persuade bonuses now being +5 each.

Level 18: +2 INT, +2 CHA. +4 to Spot.

Level 19: The Spy Master obtains a familiar, as if they were of the same level wizard -- however this familiar always clones the Spy Master's appearance and name upon summoning; in effect making a "clone".

Level 22: The Spy Master can use the command -scry.

Level 25: Total of +4 to INT, and CHA. Total of +6 to Spot

Level 26: Once per day, Dominate Person at a fixed 32 DC -- penetration equal to character level.

Level 29: Epic Will, the feat. Total of +10 to Spot.

Level 30: The Spy Master can use the command -ward.

[Hunter548]

That class is a better illusionist than illusionists.

[Alchuilas]

That actually makes an interesting point.

Make it to where the epic illusionists' familiar can clone their image.

And then...
To make up for the -severe- lack of combat ability for this proposed class, the Spy Master could get an animal companion, rather than a familiar, and at an earlier level. A re-skinned panther, that copies the Spy Master's appearance and name -- Essentially being one of the Spy Master's cronies or underlings, that serve as a faithful double (So long as the ability to -familiar "Speach" for them, would still be available.)

[I_Am_King_Midas]

Pure would be 20 Assassin. That's a base of 30 DC +Int +Int gear. But yeah, assassin needs nothing. It is good.

They are not a very strong class mechanically. They have some very strong weaknesses and their trick is not that good. They can have some fun RP but mechanically they are not "good."