Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

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Should high level monks on Arelith have glowing eyes?

Yes they should (Keep the Glow)
54
47%
No they shouldn't (Remove the Glow)
61
53%
 
Total votes: 115

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A Mystery Clock
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Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:06 pm

Please add some kind of toggle to a monk's glowing eyes . It instantly gives away a character's alignment, tends to poke through disguises/helmets, and generally tends to lock the class away from being ambiguous or difficult to recognize.

The effect is tied with the feat Perfect Self (level 20).

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Re: Monk eyes toggle command

Post by Irongron » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:53 am

We've been informed that this may well be possible now, due to HAKs.

Nevertheless I dislike the idea of the RP that would likely entail with character being able to 'turn their eyes on and off'

Rejected.

(I'm actually inclined to remove glowing eyes entirely from monk)

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Monk eyes v2

Post by A Mystery Clock » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:03 pm

Callback to this topic, and the reply.

Turning off monk eyes (or in the case of neutral monks kawaii pink cheeks) has apparently been done before. Could be turned into a hak:
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... s-must-die

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Re: Monk eyes v2

Post by Irongron » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:29 pm

I'm personally all for removing monk glowing eyes entirely.

A decision like this doesn't really affect anything other than what people prefer, so I'm going to put it to a poll and discussion in the Shanty.

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Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Irongron » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:31 pm

This is either an all in, or all out question. I don't want PCs to be able to toggle their eyes like a cyborg.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Nitro » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:42 pm

Irongron wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:31 pm
This is either an all in, or all out question. I don't want PCs to be able to toggle their eyes like a cyborg.
*looks at warlocks*

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Liareth » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:52 pm

I voted to keep the glow but I have to elaborate a bit here. My personal concern is with how common the eye glow is (and I appreciate this isn't what the OP was complaining about) - I suspect this is because the reworked class is extremely strong right now. Some adjustments to the class may fix the problem I have with the glow. If no nerfs are coming, I would prefer the glow removed entirely.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Aniel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:32 pm

I too voted for it to stay but I also feel like I need to elaborate. I'd rather see the color be changed to something static, such as always purple. Or give the level 20 monk the one time ability to select a color and be stuck with it. I think the eyes are an important indicator that someone has the class feature and gives a vital hint to what build they are. However I don't enjoy that it reveals the player's alignment.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Might-N-Magic » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:34 pm

There zero canon that outsider's (or even monk's) eyes glow. It was purely "because vidya gaem" and is pretty dumb beyond belief.

In D&D, no one says "Hey, that guy is a monk, I know because he's got headlights."

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Aniel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Might-N-Magic wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:34 pm
There zero canon that outsider's (or even monk's) eyes glow. It was purely "because vidya gaem" and is pretty dumb beyond belief.

In D&D, no one says "Hey, that guy is a monk, I know because he's got headlights."
You're right. People know in D&D because the monk becomes an actual Outsider, something which in "vidya gaem" is represented by the eye glow.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by DangerDolphin » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:47 pm

I think the glowing eyes are kinda cool, but I voted remove because:

- It's broken and appears on the cheeks of many characters not the eyes, due to model height resizing I think
- Allows metagaming of alignment
- Allows metagaming of class levels

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Aniel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:49 pm

DangerDolphin wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:47 pm
- Allows metagaming of class levels
I don't think it's metagaming class levels. I'd say the explicit point of it is to reveal class levels if anything. I really, really do not like how it shows alignment though.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by hmm » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:06 pm

Voted no.
1. metagaming alignment
2. metagaming class
4. Look better without it (Personal prefrence)

it was cool for a while, Just like The Avengers

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:08 pm

DangerDolphin wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:47 pm
I think the glowing eyes are kinda cool, but I voted remove because:

- It's broken and appears on the cheeks of many characters not the eyes, due to model height resizing I think
- Allows metagaming of alignment
- Allows metagaming of class levels
Exact same reasoning. It appears as cheeks on a lot of PCs, the neutral glow is hideous, it instantly gives away alignment, it instantly gives away that at least 20 levels (2/3rd of a build) are placed in monk. Other similar visual cues can be hidden in a fairly simple way (palemaster arm, RDD wings, toggable warlock eyes).

Even worse in the sense that while palemaster arms and warlock eyes only give away one alignment (evil) monk eyes instantly show whether a PC is good, evil, or neutral. Very few if any ways to conceal it. Not to mention that monk alignments aren't closely monitored by DMs 24/7, so it's also possible to act... "evil" with a blue eye glow, and the ICly point towards said eyes when questioned. Or vice-versa. The alignment reveal is messy.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Might-N-Magic » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:15 pm

Aniel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:38 pm
You're right. People know in D&D because the monk becomes an actual Outsider, something which in "vidya gaem" is represented by the eye glow.
Oh, do pray tell, where do they find the badge to tell they're outsiders? Is it on the forehead? The inner thigh? Eyelid? Where oh where do I look on that guy standing on the other side of the street is an outsider?

Funny, but I don't see it.

Maybe all outsiders walk sideways. I'll have to wait til he moves to find out.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Aniel » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:21 pm

Might-N-Magic wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:15 pm
Aniel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:38 pm
You're right. People know in D&D because the monk becomes an actual Outsider, something which in "vidya gaem" is represented by the eye glow.
Oh, do pray tell, where do they find the badge to tell they're outsiders? Is it on the forehead? The inner thigh? Eyelid? Where oh where do I look on that guy standing on the other side of the street is an outsider?

Funny, but I don't see it.

Maybe all outsiders walk sideways. I'll have to wait til he moves to find out.
Why are you acting like this?
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:28 pm

A more constructive suggestion:

It'd be possible to tie in the glow with a different (optional) feat, perhaps. Something that better reflects the monk turning into an outsider, which... isn't really that obvious, or exclusive to monks. By the same logic, high level clerics, paladins, warlocks would be better candidates for turning into an avatar of the planes.

This way the eyes would be permanent, but... optional?

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by matheusgraef » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:36 pm

Voted to remove them entirely.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Tired Cat » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:46 pm

For the sake of keeping alignments hidden, and making the game more immersive, and less video game, I vote remove, however if there was some way to perhaps give the option to choose a color at a certain level as stated above, that seems like a fair compromise for the people that enjoy having the badge of monk-honor?

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Durvayas » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:02 pm

The metagaming of alignment of high level monks via their glowing headlights is endemic on the server. Being a max level monk, at this moment, means locking yourself out of being able to disguise, and locking yourself out of any kind of infiltration RP.

Some tibetan monks in real life are famous for being able to do all kinds of amazing shit (levitating, changing their body temperature at will, etc.)

None of their eyes glow.
Remove it.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Might-N-Magic » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:03 pm

Aniel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:21 pm
Might-N-Magic wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:15 pm
Aniel wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:38 pm
You're right. People know in D&D because the monk becomes an actual Outsider, something which in "vidya gaem" is represented by the eye glow.
Oh, do pray tell, where do they find the badge to tell they're outsiders? Is it on the forehead? The inner thigh? Eyelid? Where oh where do I look on that guy standing on the other side of the street is an outsider?

Funny, but I don't see it.

Maybe all outsiders walk sideways. I'll have to wait til he moves to find out.
Why are you acting like this?
My point was to elucidate quite simply that yours had no standing in canon, rule, or game mechanic. There is no visual or obvious indicator to be had to tell whether something is or isn't an outsider in the Forgotten Realms or D&D as a whole.

A peasant could not stand a foot away from a 20th level monk and tell it was an ousider (or even a 20th level monk, for that matter). Outsiders don't all display glowy eyes, giant signs around their necks, walk backwards, have secret handshakes, or any other goofy thing that outwardly screams to the world "Outsider Here! I'm an outsider everybody!"

A lot of the dumber, silly things Bioware did were because NWN was designed as nothing more than a cooperative, arcade version of D&D designed for people working together or a single player experience. We've rightfully stifled or nixed most of them entirely in an effort to make the game closer to canon and to balance it for the competitive/opposed play of a persistent world. Monk "glowy eyes" are one of those silly, flashy "vidya gaem" designer choices made to look KEWL that has no basis in the original resource and even worse, is detrimental to roleplaying.

Needless to say, in a roleplaying game, one should want to discover things by roleplaying. At no point should anyone have a 100% proof of alignment without a doubt, whether they can turn it on or off at will or not. You should always have doubts. It's bad enough one can see the words "Smite Evil/Good" and "Death Attack!" as is. Those should also be removed. (Come to think of it, I already know one serious roleplay server that changed Death Attack to read as Sneak Attack.)

Now if you'd like to argue for something more fair to the player like someone with a very high amount of Lore should be able to see they're an Outsider with examine, that would be something worth debating, though it'd still be wrong, as to figure out if something is an Outsider you'd need magic, such as examining them with True Sight active.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Seekeepeek » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:00 pm

hmm.. and here i was under the impression the glowing eyes was to show other players that the monk had mind spell immunity in PvP
i kinda voted wrong it seams. was meant to vote to keep the glowing eyes. lol

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Ebonstar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:05 pm

I voted to remove them, even though my toon has had alot of rp created from them. My only ask would be if they are kept, that the DM team more closely watch for alignment breaks.

Reason behind this, if several at least 20 monk toon ive encountered play as good or neutral with the evil obvious(red eyes) which has brought up some contention, and one blatent neutral playing evil.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by DM Axis » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:11 pm

If you notice alignment violations it's advised that these are reported to the Active DM Team via the forum.

It's important not to be too critical of other's roleplay and allow the DMs to ensure that people are adhering to the standards of their alignment. There may be more going on that isn't immediately obvious.
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by TimeAdept » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 pm

Nitro wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:42 pm
Irongron wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:31 pm
This is either an all in, or all out question. I don't want PCs to be able to toggle their eyes like a cyborg.
*looks at warlocks*

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