Giving Rangers 3.5e Love

[KregorRanger]

In light of the improvements given to Fighters, and paths like Favored Soul, it seems it would be possible to make some adjustments to the Ranger class, that would update it to be similar to the 3.5e D&D ranger, rather than 3.0.

Essentially, the ranger in 3.5e became a gestalt of sorts between Ranger and Rogue, taking some of the key features of stealth and agility, and leaving behind some the signature abilities, like Sneak Attack. The 3.5e Ranger progresses as follows:

Hit die is d8 instead of d10.
Not proficient in medium armor.
Reflex and Fort saves are both high.
Skill points per level 6 instead of 4.

1st level - Track, Favored Enemy, Trackless Step
2nd level - Combat Style Feat
3rd level - Endurance (equate by allowing rangers a lower decrease in hunger/thirst/sleep than others)
4th level - Animal Companion (yes, two levels earlier)
5th level - Favored Enemy
6th level - Combat Style Feat
7th level - Woodland Stride
8th level
9th level - Evasion
10th level - Favored Enemy
11th level - Combat Style Feat
12th level - Camouflage (equate by doubling the bonuses gained by Trackless Step)
13th level
14th level
15th level - Favored Enemy
16th level
17th level - Hide in Plain Sight (which is disabled in Arelith, maybe Imp Evasion instead)
18th level
19th level
20th level - Favored Enemy

Combat Style feats are Dual Wield and Improved Dual Wield, in case of standard ranger, or Point Blank/Rapid Shot and Mobility for Sniper path Rangers. The third feat at level 11 would have been Greater Two Weapon and Manyshot, which are not feats in NWN. What to best put in place, not sure. Spring Attack or Whirlwind for melee and Called Shot for Sniper?

[Mr_Rieper]

Sadly, giving one class 3.5e benefits may just involve giving them ALL 3.5e benefits. I mean, I love this game but I sometimes wish the rule system was a plugin rather than an integral part of the engine. It would have been fun to just swap out 3e for 3.5e.

Besides, I'd really like no spell penalties on my chain shirt wearing bard. That would be awesome.

[KregorRanger]

Besides, I'd really like no spell penalties on my chain shirt wearing bard. That would be awesome.

I suggested that on the old forum too! We have Favored Soul and Warlock paths with reduced ASF and hit die changes that now serve as a proof of concept that it can be done.

I'm personally, in favor of moving as much to 3.5e as NWNX and Mithreas' scripting wizardry can allow. Had we 3.5e Rangers, Kregor would have been a pure class build all the way into epics. Not that I regret the level of Rogue mix he has now, but in concept, a pure 3.5e Ranger would have fit better.

Going even beyond 3.5e, there's Pathfinder RPG's evolution of the rule set, which the new Arelith Fighter abilities very closely mimic (though Mithreas said he's never even peeked at the rules), that could add some oomph to many of the mundane classes - Rogue bonus feats kick in earlier. Assassins are... really Assassins, not some weird arcane casting mish mash. Bards get a whole plethora of Bardic songs to cause different effects and really BE a Bard. Barbarians get new rage powers and abilities that really capitalize on that signature ability. And so on.

And they didn't nerf clerics... well, except for taking away Heavy Armor Proficiency.

[Valo65]

Rangers are extremely powerful, honestly. The Favored Enemy bonuses add significant damage bonuses, especially if you stick with it and get Bane of Enemies.

The only thing I'd recommend is that Bane of Enemies be buffed so as to let you bypass Damage Reduction.

[KregorRanger]

There are those who take favored enemies for the sake of the mechanical benefit against every playable race in the game.

There are others who pick their favored enemies by what actually fits their concept and rp, and otherwise take other feats in epic levels.

I qualify that by saying that neither on Arelith is wrong. Just that you can't make a blanket statement on the class by who optimizes it, otherwise, we can do a debate on why we should restrict cleric domains to the appropriate deities among other mechanics vs. rp and crunch vs. fluff debates

The bulk of Rangers are not OP, and many multi in other class abilities in order to bolster their otherwise lackluster progression past level 9, unless you plan on doing option 1) above. Bully for anyone if they do. 3.5e rangers trade off being better stealthers and skirmishers in exchange for losing hit points and armor (and on a server with fixed hit points per level, that's a huge difference over 30 levels.) Seeing you do not gain abilities that mechanically enhance damage based on stealth (ie, sneak attack, the change in mechanical power is negligible, but it sure makes them more versatile, not just a fighter with damage bonuses.

[Valo65]

There are those who take favored enemies for the sake of the mechanical benefit against every playable race in the game.

There are others who pick their favored enemies by what actually fits their concept and rp, and otherwise take other feats in epic levels.

False dichotomies are fun.

[The Rambling Midget]

False dichotomies are fun.

[Preacher]

False dichotomies are fun.

LOL Where do you find these wonderful toy... erm... Memes?

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I think this would overpower the class. It's giving the ranger a lot of stuff, where the ranger has a lot of stuff already.

I don't think there's any class, really, that's meant to be played pure class. for flavour, yeah. but multiclass just begs to be had. It's not fault of anyone, simply the system.

[Jagel]

The new companion buff actually upped ranger power significantly since you can build around the companion's strength. That allows you to leave a few holes in your build. I'm really sad I deleted my drow ranger as this update would have made him a real powerhouse

[Mithreas]

Between the companion buff and enhanced tracking, rangers are a long way down my priority list for Dev attention right now.