Dragon Knight Change Revision

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FairyTaleBiscuit
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Dragon Knight Change Revision

Post by FairyTaleBiscuit » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:29 pm

I appreciate your labour of love, and by no way consider it otherwise, i just find this particular change a little confusing.

Dragon knight now has 3 counters to it, Banishment(6) and dismissal(4) that prevent it being even used and Word of Faith(7) That instantly un-summons it, all spells are ascribable and easily acquired to the point that even trying to casting it or casting it results in no dragon at all, even if you do get one present it's more than likely by the time you've been able to buff it to be able to handle an encounter or player the timers ran out and it's gone mid fight. (This spell costs Not only an epic feat, but a large portion of spell slots to make it capable!)

Banishment(6) and dismissal(4)... It’s uncounterable and Map wide, If unnoticed it consumes the dragon knight spell entirely! This was fine for multiple castable spells, but a single use EPIC Spell, It makes me wonder if Hellball and Greater Ruin are in for a nerf soon too?

If the timer of a spell is so short, then why have a reduced summon that is incapable of defending itself sufficiently against most encounters unless the majority of it's existence is spent Warding it, to then use it for a very brief moment.

Currently for the epic levels it was intended to be used It's barely sensible to consider it as a feat due to more accessible, less costly alternative that most casters have access too for free, Gate! I can cast 7 of these a rest vs 1 Dragon knight!

The Comparison of Stats between Dragon knight and Gate spell are strange!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

(My opinion on use) The gate celestial has more damage out put, multiple castings, greater buffs, has more fort save than a dragon? and casts better spells than an EPIC FEAT costing spell?

Elementals currently last hours, and an ancient fire elemental as shown in the comparison link with epic conjuration isn't that far behind if we are honest.

Currently in it's state my personal opinion is that the dragon summon is pointless to have due to time of use, counters and usability when compared to other more accessible multiple use spells that do not consume a feat.

Suggested changes:
1) If the Duration of the spell is short, make it more akin to other epic spells in their single use explosive nature, such as hellball and greater ruin, prime examples of a one time use spell that both thrills and has the fearful nature of an Epic investment, yet isn't useable to clear a dungeon and can only be used in select moments for a great boon.

2) In it's current state, developing it as a more long term summon may proceed to make it a more worthy prospect versus Gate and allow it to be used as it's already lost due to the fact it can't get through doors (i don't think -fetch should be used to get a dragon through a tight doorway...) Perhaps something better than the elementals for those who wish to invest in such a spell to have that summon thats capable a little more than elementals.
Only the gods tell him what to do, and you should beware of men who take their orders from the gods.

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Peppermint
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Re: Dragon Knight Change Revision

Post by Peppermint » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:51 am

I'm not sure how you calculated these numbers. If this is data you've collected in game, please report it to me (with information on your character's caster levels and relevant spell focuses), because this is a bug.

Assuming esf conjuration and 30 caster levels (which is a rarity), we'd be looking at the following numbers for AB:

Ancient Fire Elemental: 36 (29 [Base] + 2 [Epic Scaling: Strength] + 5 [Epic Scaling: AB])
Deva: 40 (30 [Base] + 3 [ESF: Conjuration] + 2 [Epic Scaling: Strength] + 5 [Epic Scaling: AB])
Silver Dragon: 46 (36 [Base] + 3 [ESF: Conjuration] + 2 [Epic Scaling: Strength] + 5 [Epic Scaling: AB])

Damage-wise, we'd see:

Ancient Fire Elemental: 4-40 + 9 + 2d8 (fire) (19-20/x2) ~= 40
Deva: 1-6 + 14 + 2d6 (Divine) +2d6 (Positive) (16-20/x3) ~= 31.5
Silver Dragon: 1-8 + 28 (16-20/x3) = 32.5

The ancient fire elemental has the highest raw damage, but a large portion of that is fire, which is often resisted on Arelith. Removing that from the equation docks its average damage to 31 -- putting it at the lowest end of the chart.

The deva has comparable damage to the silver dragon. Essences will reduce this significantly (i.e. by 10 damage), but that's more of a concern in PvP. We can call this a wash.

But even if we don't consider damage mitigation, we're looking at a huge AB increase per summon tier, not to mention critical range. The ancient fire elemental's damage looks far less impressive compared to the dragon when we consider that not only does it have a mere (19-20/x2) crit range compared to (16-20/x3), but it has 10 less AB. That's a staggering difference! It also lacks permanent haste and has significantly lower AC than the other options.

When comparing the dragon to the deva, again, we see that the dragon not only outputs more raw damage per hit, but it hits much more often too (with 6 AB over its counterpart). It also has significantly more hit points than the Deva, not to mention 15/+6 DR and 35% Physical Immunity. That's no small number. Consider the case of a 100 damage critical: that's a 50% reduction in damage (100 * .65 - 15 = 50).

While some small tweaks may be on the horizon, I certainly don't share the opinion that the EDK spell is lackluster or needs significant change.

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