Let's talk about drow ambushes

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StealthyKraken
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by StealthyKraken » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:23 pm

gilescorey wrote:
Lorkas wrote:I'm curious actually whether or not the drow raiders would spawn on a group of 1 surfacer and 1 UDer.
I can also confirm this to be a 'yes'.
They don't attack in that case, though, or am I wrong? I remember being in a party with two surfacers on my orog and the raiders spawned on us but weren't hostile.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by gilescorey » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:31 pm

They attacked us, us being myself and the outcast I mentioned earlier. Perhaps it's only that they're 'friendly' to UD races, but don't spawn on Outcasts - or at least, that's the intention.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Nitro » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:38 pm

It'd be nice if they didn't spawn/attack parties with UD races, outcasts or slaves in them, a means to make guides (or personal slaves) a bit more valuable for surface races looking to traverse the underdark.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by DM Noodle » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:46 pm

They currently do not spawn for UD races or outcasts, and I believe the devs are making it so they do not spawn for slaves either.

UD races also prevent them from spawning even if there are surfacers in the party. Outcasts and slaves however do not prevent them from spawning if they are in a party with surfacers.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Lorkas » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:54 pm

DM Noodle wrote:They currently do not spawn for UD races or outcasts, and I believe the devs are making it so they do not spawn for slaves either.

UD races also prevent them from spawning even if there are surfacers in the party. Outcasts and slaves however do not prevent them from spawning if they are in a party with surfacers.
That sounds like all of the most perfect decisions. :)

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Cortex wrote:I alreayd know everything the archers are capable of, their AB, damage, AC and loot table. Which I would argue serves in my point that they are more immersion breaking, annoying and without counter play than anything else.

Also, good luck running from archers who hit 20-30 non crits once they spawn on your face.
Your first point is something anyone can figure out almost immediately by going through a combat log, and so I don't even know why you mentioned it. As for the second point...

Its an archer. Drink an invisibility potion and run if they're a problem. They don't have true seeing. Use invis and then silence if need be. That is your counter. Escaping them is more a matter of being prepared for the eventuality of them spawning. If you feel the need to flee the area? Good. Your PC should know better than to be walking around alone in the underdark anyways.

As for the claim that they show up friendly to UDers.
I can confirm Dark archers are not 'friendly' to UD races. My drow got ambushed by one that had been left in the minogon plant.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Cortex » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:57 pm

The first paragraph was in reply to Shadowy Reality.

I really, really don't trust potion of invisibility a reliable counter when mobs keep firing rounds after, depending on how laggy that monday is. Not to mention you can't force your party members to have a good reflex with it like you do, the moment they fire, odds are, you're toast.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Hunter548 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

There's also the fact that the gigaschatten AI has, for as long as I've played the server, been fairly reliable in ignoring invisibility, blindness and corner sneaking about half the time.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:46 pm

I always thought the problem was they spawned 5 feet away from you and by that point you are already so far away from any cover or defenses or line of sight that you are pretty much toast.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by gilescorey » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:53 pm

Cerk Evermoore wrote:I always thought the problem was they spawned 5 feet away from you and by that point you are already so far away from any cover or defenses or line of sight that you are pretty much toast.
I concur. There's really not much Time to do anything other than hope to god an invisibility potion doesn't bug or lag out.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Sab1 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:01 pm

I must concur that invis potions aren't something you should rely on. I have been chased my many things orcs, termites, duergars, etc after drinking a invis potion. Didn't seem to bother them at all and they still seemed to attack and follow me.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by DarkDreamer » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:03 pm

I dont bother with invis potions, other then for crafting they are seriously pointless, they last only a few seconds, when they activate they rarely stop the creature from seeing you, and you get maybe 10 steps before its gone.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Capt.shadow » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:16 pm

first agreed andunor is a trade first racist later kind of city, but i like the idea the DM are acutaly makeing the place an area that few want to come since its meant to be really hard for the surface kind.

now have them ambushes happen in the city for surfaces and its all perfect.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Sab1 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:58 pm

I don't think slaves or outcasts should be immune to this, after all why would a party of drow out in the wilderness care if they killed someones slave or an outcast? This will also encourage slaves to not roam alone but make them seek out other UD races for escorts and such.

Still say something like this should go up on the surface to, that way both sides would be rightfully wary of places they should be taking caution in.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:19 pm

Capt.shadow wrote: now have them ambushes happen in the city for surfaces and its all perfect.
No. That's excessive.

Sab1 wrote:Still say something like this should go up on the surface to, that way both sides would be rightfully wary of places they should be taking caution in.
I would be perfectly content with some sort of patrol spawn that happens every so often in the territory of hostile cities. Keywords being hostile.

If sibiyad is not overly hostile to UDers, it doesn't make sense to have those there, and if wharftown is trading with the UD and on otherwise friendly terms, it doesn't make sense for their patrols to be hostile either. Perhaps some sort of on/off toggle that settlement leaders can turn on and off.

Andunor needs no toggle. The drow have never worked that way. If nobody saw a murder, a murder never happened, so the drow wouldn't regulate raiding parties or ambushes because plausable deniability.


Edit: Invis pots are not super reliable on their own, however, using one and then going into stealth mode seems to break their detection very reliably as the game registers they no longer have line of sight and the stealth function programming kicks in.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Sab1 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:02 pm

The one thing are these ambushes really have anything to do with a specific city or town? So should a specific town have control over if encounters happen near it? As a random encounter it seems more these drow happen to be nearby as a surfacer comes near, not that they are acting under specific orders from a city.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Stath » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:46 am

Andunor settlement leaders should be able to add/remove surfacers/non ud natives to a list. Being on the list prevents ambushes.

Probably used to facilitate roleplay.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:43 am

Sab1 wrote:The one thing are these ambushes really have anything to do with a specific city or town? So should a specific town have control over if encounters happen near it? As a random encounter it seems more these drow happen to be nearby as a surfacer comes near, not that they are acting under specific orders from a city.
Thats what I'm saying. The drow wouldn't try to control these things while surface settlements, if they had something similar, might.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Rorin1979 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:21 am

Sab1 wrote: Still say something like this should go up on the surface to, that way both sides would be rightfully wary of places they should be taking caution in.
It's called Kill Scripts, difference being you can actually fight drow archers. Surfacers don't get to walk around the UD like you own it anymore suck it up
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by gilescorey » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:42 am

Rorin1979 wrote:It's called Kill Scripts, difference being you can actually fight drow archers. Surfacers don't get to walk around the UD like you own it anymore suck it up
Kill scripts, aside from Cordor's interior, were recently removed.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Kuma » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:05 am

Rorin1979 wrote:Surfacers don't get to walk around the UD like you own it anymore suck it up
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by tango.icecream » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:31 am

I started on the UD on arelith and I absolutely hated how the UD was treated like a tourist destination by surfacers. I was so utterly frustrated to have all of the UD dungeon constantly being camped by surfacers, and I have been repeatedly bullied out of the dungeon by higher level surfacer party who just wanted me to F*** off because they can kill me. I approve of this ambushes to make it more unpleasant, but not impossible, to go down to the UD.

I also liked that it distinguishes between Outlanders and just an evil human who goes down there a lot. We also had a lot of problem when I was in the UD with human tourists who had no penalty for not being an Outlander, but no benefit for people who actually spent the background as an outlander to start in the UD.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:31 am

I like that they make it more dangerous for SOLO surface characters to wander the UD.

A party of surfacers moving as a group, yea, it makes sense that its fairly safe for them to reach the city with minor inconvenience.

If your problem with the dark archers revolves around that you get killed while solo in the UD, that is the common denominator. Stop treating the UD like a dangerless playground you can walk around in safely alone in. Show up with friends or expect death to be a very, very real possibility. Maybe RP the danger and fear for once while you're at it. An individual alone in the UD would be considered insane in canon forgotten realms. The underdark is meant to be a deathtrap for the unprepared and being outcast from a city is meant to be an outright death sentence because of slaver caravans, bandits, and the wildlife itself. It's an inhospitable wasteland.
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by ActionReplay » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:07 am

Been adjusting these spawns slightly to better fit the CL for the triggering PC. Also some fine-tuning the spawn rate and such. Expect me to raise and lower these values back and forth again in the coming weeks.

Also, I do not expect to keep the spawns where they are now I'll move them about as I go. Also certain groups spawning on you might be considered unfair but the idea is now to give the player a better means of escape and perhaps reconsider travelling through that area alone.

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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Sab1 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:38 pm

Durvayas wrote:I like that they make it more dangerous for SOLO surface characters to wander the UD.

A party of surfacers moving as a group, yea, it makes sense that its fairly safe for them to reach the city with minor inconvenience.

If your problem with the dark archers revolves around that you get killed while solo in the UD, that is the common denominator. Stop treating the UD like a dangerless playground you can walk around in safely alone in. Show up with friends or expect death to be a very, very real possibility. Maybe RP the danger and fear for once while you're at it. An individual alone in the UD would be considered insane in canon forgotten realms. The underdark is meant to be a deathtrap for the unprepared and being outcast from a city is meant to be an outright death sentence because of slaver caravans, bandits, and the wildlife itself. It's an inhospitable wasteland.
Point is yes the UD should be dangerous to surfacers but the surface is suppose to be dangerous to those undesireable races that live below. Surfacers have walked below acting like they own the place, but there have been plenty of UD folks who have come above and acted the same way. Both areas are suppose to be scary for the other. Everything below hates me but very few races in the UD are liked on the surface either. I like the drow spawns, but simply think there should be something to encourage UD races to be in a group if they want to come above for a wander.

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