Let's talk about drow ambushes

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Invader_Nym
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Invader_Nym » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:33 am

gilescorey wrote:
Shadowy Reality wrote:...don't squash down things that keep the server alive, interesting and unpredictable.
Interesting is not a word I would use to describe the ambushes in their current state. I had one happen once a couple of steps outside of the Outpost, spawning five or maybe six Dark Archers, better known as the guys with high 30s AB. I went in (after, of course, somehow being killed and godsaving while I loaded the area as I come through with twenty five percent less piety and a greater sanctuary effect), the Archers murdered the minotaur guard within seconds. I used my godsave to flee, but imaginably whoever came through after me had no such luck.

They're quite strong, clearly intended for mid-high epic level characters, yet they can spawn as low as level fifteen. There is Nothing Interesting about an arbitrary death sentence.
I was hit by these on my epic ranger and wiped out in 1 round. I think they're terrible and actually made a post about it a while back.

More generally, I'm disappointed with the trend towards making everything way more challenging and way less rewarding.

This is a bit of a digression, but still relevant. In my opinion the developers have made the error of observing that certain players/builds are really successful and then trying to build the server around thwarting that success.

I used to play back in the days of Udos Droxun and I remember a time when, if you were well built and had your gear in order, you'd thrive: you were /rewarded/ for your investment of time.

Now, it seems you need to have your end-game gear in order and be a munchkin build to perform passably. I think the risk/reward situation on Arelith has gone off the rails, and these archers are a prime example. They pop up out of nowhere, wipe you out in one round, and I'll bet you even if you were able to successfully kill them the reward wouldn't be remotely proportionate to the risk. I think this is an area where something sounds wonderful in theory but in reality just makes the game hell to play.

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Cortex
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Cortex » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:41 am

You probably weren't around for the original Black Archers. A decade or so ago.

Scurvy wrote:This is a fine stance to have, but a little misplaced in a mechanics feedback thread, don'cha think?

Quoth

Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Quoth » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:42 am

Oh hell those guys. Cleric AA leader right outside udos killing folks as they came out.. yeah I recall.

Gods_Kill_People
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:57 am

Yes and it sounds like they are long gone. If they were bad players then they deserved to be dealt with by DMs, not punish every character that came after them with spawns so OP'd that they will kill the next 10+ players that they see and sit over their corpses smoking Opium while they wait the next victim...which for all they care can be a slave, a drow, or anything else.

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Durvayas
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:32 pm

Power creep is a thing, but these dark archers are the result of one thing.

The powerbuilds that go into the UD solo, often to Andunor to cause trouble as mister badass, or to one of the many UD grinding spots to PvP. Before the archers, they were an epidemic. You'd hear about lower level UD folks getting PvPed daily. The black archers are a deterrent to people who play surface being silly.

One does not simply walk into mordor, or in this case, Andunor.

Gods_Kill_People
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:34 pm

Um, considering a pack of them can simply portal into the Slums and go from there on a mass killing spree....it deters nothing.

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Durvayas
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:52 pm

Gods_Kill_People wrote:Um, considering a pack of them can simply portal into the Slums and go from there on a mass killing spree....it deters nothing.
We have long been advocating for the slum portal be to be keyed to UD races and slaves only. This is nothing new. Just an oversight on the dev's part, since eliminating surface use of the hub portal only means they can slum in, and then lense out.

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flower
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by flower » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:57 pm

Everyone speaks how epics kept killing Drow or UD newbies yet in 3-4 years spent in UD i had pvp with surfacers in Ud like 4 - 5 times and every time we initiated it (even that Black Archer did not attack first...).

Tens of other encounters were simple done with ignoration of one side or the other or one of us simple pulling back.

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gilescorey
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by gilescorey » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:44 pm

If any surfacers do a "mass killing spree" the problem isn't the slums it's that the people doing the killing are guilty of some pretty poor sport in RP and should be reported. It's not dissimilar from a drow or an orog walking into Guldorand and killing people; the NPCs would definitely react.

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ActionReplay
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by ActionReplay » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:05 pm

Durvayas wrote:
Gods_Kill_People wrote:Um, considering a pack of them can simply portal into the Slums and go from there on a mass killing spree....it deters nothing.
We have long been advocating for the slum portal be to be keyed to UD races and slaves only. This is nothing new. Just an oversight on the dev's part, since eliminating surface use of the hub portal only means they can slum in, and then lense out.
Yeah not a fan of that portal.

As for Drow Ambushes I am sorry I know I probably said I would look into them ages ago and good news being with the A.I being somewhat better (Though still has its issues we know) the way to hostile and unhostile might work better now in code for NPCs. So the idea was for the drow patrols to be neutral for UD races and hostile against surfacers.

Now they can be spawned (Most likely by a surfacer) and attack anyone at sight.

Sab1
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Sab1 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 pm

Gods_Kill_People wrote:Um, considering a pack of them can simply portal into the Slums and go from there on a mass killing spree....it deters nothing.
As a UD player I rarely saw a surface killing spree in Anduador, from my experience you're a lot more likely to get murdered by a UD character on the surface then by a surfacer in the UD these days. I remember the black archer outside of the Udos ruins just like I remember a drow lurking near stonehold pvping and surfacer that walked by.

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:13 pm

Anduinor isn't like it used to be... Mostly. But you'll still sometimes see decked out surfacers wandering Andunor from time to time hoping someone tries to beef with them.

Gods_Kill_People
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:10 am

Cerk Evermoore wrote:Anduinor isn't like it used to be... Mostly. But you'll still sometimes see decked out surfacers wandering Andunor from time to time hoping someone tries to beef with them.
Yes, and the UDers have no issue gathering in forces and outright murdering them if they try to throw around their own weight.

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:44 am

Except hardcore pvpers stopped playing drow after the gift change. Now they play humans and elves for the benefits of the three gift stat split.

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gilescorey
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by gilescorey » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:02 am

You can't get three stat gifts on a human or an elf, Cerk.

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Punished Hans
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Punished Hans » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:08 am

Besides, drow are still very potent a race. 32 SR paired with +2 to INT and CON is nothing to scoff at.

They're simply not as powerful as they were before, with some downsides to STR-based builds.

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Dreams
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Dreams » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:19 am

Isn't 32 SR that greater gift that isn't available to anyone anymore? Drow have it pretty good.

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High Primate
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by High Primate » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Without the drow spawns, surfacers would be grinding UD areas non-stop. Kill them all. That's my 2¢.
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Gods_Kill_People
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:20 pm

I don't mind the spawns...but when your a slave and your only hunting grounds is the UD for the most part...that really hurts.

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:34 pm

Punished Hans wrote:Besides, drow are still very potent a race. 32 SR paired with +2 to INT and CON is nothing to scoff at.

They're simply not as powerful as they were before, with some downsides to STR-based builds.

If I took a human I could grab two gifts in any stat I wanted, put extra stats into constitution get an extra feat. More skill points, can go into any city. Could make up the extra SR with the new helm that can be crafted.

I mean on paper the benefits of playing a human are there. If you go down to Andunor you'll see most players down there are not hardcore pvpers, or have power builds.

I am not saying it's a bad thing, but if a couple well organized epics went down to Andunor we really couldn't do anything about it.

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Durvayas
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:49 pm

Cerk Evermoore wrote:
Punished Hans wrote:Besides, drow are still very potent a race. 32 SR paired with +2 to INT and CON is nothing to scoff at.

They're simply not as powerful as they were before, with some downsides to STR-based builds.

If I took a human I could grab two gifts in any stat I wanted, put extra stats into constitution get an extra feat. More skill points, can go into any city. Could make up the extra SR with the new helm that can be crafted.

I mean on paper the benefits of playing a human are there. If you go down to Andunor you'll see most players down there are not hardcore pvpers, or have power builds.

I am not saying it's a bad thing, but if a couple well organized epics went down to Andunor we really couldn't do anything about it.
Depending on the time of day, this is true. And also kinda why the dark archers are nescessary. The UD does not have the epic coverage to gank people in this scenario at all times of day, so mustering a defense is not always an option.

Gods_Kill_People
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Gods_Kill_People » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:00 pm

Yes but the point is, it summoning on SLAVES is a bug.

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Durvayas
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Durvayas » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 pm

From a purely game design standpoint I'll agree. It's either a bug, an oversight, or a super player unfriendly feature to keep slaves from escaping.

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RamblerTeo
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by RamblerTeo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:29 pm

i wish i had a petite drow gf

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Hunter548
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Re: Let's talk about drow ambushes

Post by Hunter548 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:51 pm

When is the surface going to get black archer spawns to kill wandering epic goblins/kobolds/gnolls/drow?
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