Stealth diety's

[Flameborn]

Need some love. After two full 16 hour a day weeks in game with a diety in stealth, im still at -97% piety.

Just up it to .5% per "not recognized"

Needing 1,000 of them to get to full piety is completely insane, when a fighter can get .5% for ever kill, and max their piety 3-5x a day from 0.

[Death Above All Else]

If piety is an issue, there is always praying at altars. Sure, it takes time; however, another alternative.

[Iceborn]

Some people rather, you know, play the game, rather than spend their time sulking at an altar. Even more so if it's a character with an obscure deity, or a less "standard" race.

[Death Above All Else]

I don't think the amount is too low. There are plenty of NPCs in the settlements, and around that increase the piety well enough. And, praying at an altar is part of the game. It's a mechanic for a reason.

[Flameborn]

You are wrong, Marcus. You're just wrong. You must not have read my first post, but even running back and forth from multiple settlements doesnt give nearly enough for what you lose outside.

[Iceborn]

Not helpful, DAAE.
The piety mechanic is not perfect, and trickery gods take millenia to raise. And when you actually manage to raise it by the 40% threshold, you can expect by all that is true that you will see it going down to 15% again at the first spotter that glances by.

[Flameborn]

The first spotter that means you need another 250 "not" checks to get up what you just lost in an instant.

And you can't get it up by just standing in one place either. You have to leave the NPC's vision, and re-enter it totally. So you'll have to walk past 250 different npc's, or run a circle for a large amount of time, which is just stupid.

[Death Above All Else]

I clearly did read your original post. 0.1% is not a big deal. As you can, if you put effort in, get it by walking around enough or alternatively spending some time in front of an altar.

Sure, fighters with war and destruction have it easy. Perhaps theirs should be lowered in comparison to make it more fair.

Edit: As well, I don't think my posts have been not helpful. I've merely stated an alternative to gaining piety, that takes time but no effort. Faith isn't just hack and slash or walking around stealth, there is no reason you can take a bit of time to pray.

[Flameborn]

You cannot, without cheesing the system. I even tried running place to place with large amounts of npc's and realized how stupid it was. Its just not enough. Alternatively, you can sit in front of an altar for 42 minutes to get that 25% back up.

[Cihparg]

The only problem with stealth deities is god saves these days.
Unless you mechanically focus all your points in bluff, you can say good bye to your piety if you want to use disguises.

To remedy this, one should have the option to disable god saves.
More so in this time and age where inspecting someone will potentially ruin their Piety, I find myself incapable of reading descriptions these days if the character is disguised.
(Perhaps I should mention that this is not a mechanically forced reaction to disguises- This is purely an OOC reaction)

However, I can vouch that they don't need any other boons.
Ofcourse, this can be because I have a Destruction & Stealth deity, which gets 0.5% piety per kill.
Perhaps Stealth can be updated to give 0.5% as well. It isn't in balance with Destruction, but as I said before, I don't think a boon is especially necessary.

[Aftond]

Then maybe its time to start using those altars or even better change deity

[Hypnagogic Phosphene]

Perhaps give +0.1% piety for every 30 seconds spent in stealth, or something?

[Flameborn]

Theres a good suggestion! Just make sure it disables it like rpr if you try to go afk in stealth.

[P Three]

Or not since...they actually aren't STEALTH deities. They're TRICKERY deities. The name implies deceit. Not just hiding.

But yes please god lower the war domain piety gains.

[Iceborn]

There is no actual stealth deity or domain, but trickery falls to all roguish sort in Arelith.

[CragOneEye]

There is no actual stealth deity or domain, but trickery falls to all roguish sort in Arelith.

That is also incorrect. Lolth, Cyric, Talona, queen of air and darkness and Gargauth all don't necessarily have anything to do with "rogue" behaviour, with them it's mostly just about being able to straight up lie.

But would be nice if they came up with also a "shadow" related piety power.

Use the stealth suggestion of increasing piety for these shadow related deities. Ie Vaerhun, shar galkanuk, mask, brandaboris , shargas, Bathsheba etc.

[Dinosaur Space Program]

I have been playing a bluff/spotter character for awhile now, though off and on.

Here are my two cents on bluff vs spot vs piety gains.

Spot cooldown is fine, I especially like how it is through the examine feature. I personally believe some ability to slap it on people consistently is needed, regardless of how much it drains piety. I actually would be alright advocating a shorter cooldown, as I mentioned in the original examine change thread.

Piety gain however should be upped. I was actually going to make this a suggestion but couldn't decide by How much it should be upped. I think 0.2% could be enough. 0.4% being the top mark for it though and that might be a little heavy weighted.

The fact remains that while you Can piety farm from NPCs, you are in a constant losing battle against god saves. I do not think god saves should cost Any Less. They should be expensive. They should be a hefty chunk of your piety. However, as someone who regularly altars it up to keep my piety above 50%, I can only conclude that the 0.1% isn't enough.

I had a knowledge and invention paladin before who could consecrate its' own altars and it was a constant war there as well with piety needs.

Maybe a minor bump up on how much per tick is gotten would help mitigate this some. I think 0.1% for either domain is a bit rough though at this point.

[Recite the Sins]

Knowledge & Invention is straight up garbage, it's mechanically unsustainable to burn all of your points and then be on for the next 2.5 hours. You'll have a net loss, and also burn a load of piety on making glass or something minor. Whereas a dungeon run for W&D will max you.

K&I needs that bookshelf tending mechanic added in that was mentioned, same rate as plants for Nature. T&D needs upped to 0.3% or something. W&D could stand being lowered to that.

[Lorkas]

Are people confusing stealth with disguise in this thread? Stealth is completely unrelated to T&D gods. You need to be in disguise to gain piety for T&D.

When I played a T&D-worshiping character I didn't particularly find it tough to keep piety up, but it is definitely harder with T&D than it is with W&D, Nature (if a druid or ranger), or Magic.

On the other hand, it is way easier to keep piety up on a T&D-worshiper with some bluff/perform than it is to keep it up on a H&H-worshiper who isn't a cleric or bard, and also way easier than a K&I-worshiper (regardless of build).

Probably they could be rebalanced a bit, but T&D is definitely not worst off, at least

[gilescorey]

Are people confusing stealth with disguise in this thread? Stealth is completely unrelated to T&D gods. You need to be in disguise to gain piety for T&D.

When I played a T&D-worshiping character I didn't particularly find it tough to keep piety up, but it is definitely harder with T&D than it is with W&D, Nature (if a druid or ranger), or Magic.

On the other hand, it is way easier to keep piety up on a T&D-worshiper with some bluff/perform than it is to keep it up on a H&H-worshiper who isn't a cleric or bard, and also way easier than a K&I-worshiper (regardless of build).

Probably they could be rebalanced a bit, but T&D is definitely not worst off, at least

Agree. Hearth & Home / Knowledge & Invention are horrid. Healing kits should proc piety gain at least on H&H, while Knowledge & Invention is just bleh. I don't have any ideas for that.

[Lorkas]

The healing-kits-add-piety-for-H&H thing was suggested before, and the problem stated in the dev reply was that there's no script hook built into the healing kit item, so the devs couldn't make it work.

What if T&D was actually expanded to include things like stealth, traps, locks, and picking pockets? The god-save would probably be too strong if it applied to all of them, but probably a system could be put in place to add piety from those types of actions.

Maybe not stealth, because then it would be too easy to gain piety (the detection check takes place every 4 seconds for NPCs and 5 times per second for PCs... even at 0.1% for each successful stealth roll, you're maxing out piety in only 2.5 minutes of stealthing behind a single lowbie PC. Faster if it's two of them, and faster still if you count both the hide and MS check.

One downside to adding the ability to gain piety from locks is the same reason why locks don't give XP--it's possible to unlock-relock-unlock.

I am at a loss for H&H though. Thematically I would say something like welcoming people into a quarter you own, sharing food and drink with them, and the like, but I don't know how that could be scripted (and don't know how much it would help).

K&I would be helped big time just by limiting the god save to something that's higher than a particular value. It's annoying to get a K&I godsave while you're crafting something like glass, but it's awesome when you're crafting something like emeralds, rubies, fine elven boots, or adamantine goods. If it only granted a god save on the latter things, that would make a big difference.

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

As someone who has played a Disguise character with a T&D god from level 3 to 30, I have NO idea how you're having so much difficulty with piety, Flameborn. Even when I had poor- to middling Bluff and was getting spotted regularly, I just don't know how you're having difficulty. I'm reading the numbers you're throwing out here, and yet in actual practice I've never found them an obstacle to keeping high piety at any point in my character's life.

I happen to think DAAE is spot-on. Pray at an Altar, roleplay in settlements, get Spotted and make up the piety in disgustingly short order. This feels like another buff that there's really no need for. Expanding it, like Lorkas said, would be very interesting, but I don't think that I'm "Wrong, Just Wrong" either.

[Artos13]

The object that flags tavern/quarter areas as not needing food/water could be used for Hearth and Home folks to receive piety gain.

[Yma23]

Ditto - I'm playing such a character right now and keeping up the levels of peity is very easy. Unless...

Need some love. After two full 16 hour a day weeks in game with a diety in stealth, im still at -97% piety.

Ok, if I am explaining something you know already - I apologise but:

As has been mentioned, there are no 'stealth' deities, there are trickery and deciet. To get piety from these, npcs (or pcs) have to fail a *looks* check.

If you are going around stealthed, then npcs can't 'see' you to 'examine' you. And if they can't examine you, they can't fail to breach your disguise - and thus you can't gain peity.

Best way to gain peity is to go around disguised and unstealed in somewhere like cordor. A bit of wandering and you should gain a decent amount of peity.

[Dinosaur Space Program]

The character I am running, I did not put stealth on. And with lower to mid-level bluff in an active city, you actually lose your piety very quickly. The best way to piety farm and keep it is to combine stealth and disguise, so you can get piety when you want and keep it when you don't want to be spotted much.

I have gone from 100% to 25% or even 0% within an hour or shorter several times at this point. I actually think this is how it should be, but I believe that regaining it shouldn't be quite so painful, especially if you play a character of a more obscure god that has no altars.

I really like the idea of knowledge and invention being able to touch up bookshelves to refresh their contents. Home and hearth I never had too hard of a time keeping up because bandage rolls/salves. But they could use a little love as well really.

I never personally have had an issue with war domain getting 0.5% because nature gets 1.0% per plant pet.

I do not think we need to nerf these, rather let's bring up piety gains to the other domains up to the snuff with those two. No one wants to spent an hour of their day or more in piety mitigation. I've lost track of the number of times I have been at the best altar I could find for 30 minutes to almost two hours sometimes trying to top off my piety on assorted characters. I choose gods for RP, not for ease of piety and sometimes it rather hurts.