Alignment Question

[Trishula]

Hey all

Was hoping to get a help with an alignment problem. My latest idea is a character that has done some evil things, very evil things. She is plagued by what she has done, maybe even resentful. Yet she continues to do these things, even though she knows it's wrong and she'll feel remorse later. I'm thinking it's a chaotic neutral sort of thing, but was wondering if that would be right?

I always have trouble with the alignments.
Cheers
Trishula

[msterswrdsmn]

Meh. Being evil doesn't mean you don't feel remorse, so....possibly more towards something like CE or NE, rather than netural. If they were actively doing things to try to repent/atone/ for what they were doing while still falling back into their old habits, neutral would probably be more applicable.

If you're aiming for neutral, try coming up with ways that counteract whatever evil act it is you're doing. What, as well as how you do this, also affects the chaotic/lawful end of things. Lawful=more consistant or following a set of rules, whereas chaotic=wildly inconsistant.

[Durvayas]

It really depends on the intent.

Some LE characters are actually working for good things. Like law, order, justice... but their methods are draconic and brutal.

More info needed to pass judgement.

[Trishula]

I guess, it's less remorse and more of an emptiness. She is void of emotion when she does these things. She does them to try to feel something. So instead of being tormented by the fact she has no emotion, she's likely to go and murder someone, brutally, to try and feel anything. Lawful wise, she doesn't care about moral or code of conduct. So the more I think on it, after reading msterswrdsmn's reply, the more I"m leaning towards chaotic evil?

TLD; She's void of emotion, and does unspeakable things to try and feel something.

[Rwby]

A complete disregard for others, no internal code or purpose to follow, and wantonly inflicting suffering for personal gain sounds perfectly CE to me!

[Stath]

The last part sounds like the definition of chaotic evil. Or maybe neutral evil.

[Hunter548]

Definitely evil to my mind. What flavor of evil depends on exactly What sort of baby-munching they do. Do they munch babies constantly and resent anyone who tells them they can't? Do they munch babies for the greater good? Do they flexibly munch babies?

[Trishula]

She does it because she can. She doesn't care if others try to stop her, as then they just become an obstacle to knock down

[Hunter548]

Definitely CE, then.

[Ork]

Alignments don't have to be rigid. I've imagined my own characters existing on a spectrum, where "evil" may vary from selfish behavior to moral depravity, but absolute zero and selflessness are statistical outliers. Just whatever disposition your character demonstrates on a daily basis ought be their alignment.

[METAL BAWKSES]

In the same vein of evil and alignment. I have a general idea of neutral evil but I'm curious if anyone has a good way of putting it into words, or how to put it in regards to the other two evils. I've always sort of been unsure of myself as I've played NE because I always feel like my character is beginning to stray too far to chaotic or lawful.

[Mr_Rieper]

I've always roleplayed Neutral Evil as a sort of "devil may care" attitude. They don't have a particular preference for law or lawlessness, as long as they get what they want. Just as good does not necessarily mean nice, evil also can be nice under certain circumstances (good friends and family). But for the most part, they'll look for ways to abuse strangers for their own benefit, with or without the support of the law. Whatever works, they'll do it.

Don't worry about neutral characters leaning towards lawful or chaotic, it's a natural thing to do. There's no perfect middle ground and personalities are unique, they'll always be at different parts of the alignment spectrum. Two neutral evils are not exactly alike. As long as your character doesn't start to place the law (or lack thereof) over her own needs, you're fine.

[Scurvy Cur]

In the same vein of evil and alignment. I have a general idea of neutral evil but I'm curious if anyone has a good way of putting it into words, or how to put it in regards to the other two evils. I've always sort of been unsure of myself as I've played NE because I always feel like my character is beginning to stray too far to chaotic or lawful.

If lawful evil is evil with principle, structure, and a code of conduct, and chaotic evil is an evil that revels in the unfettered freedoms of an individual unbound by morals, customs, or even personal consistency, then neutral evil is the evil of self-advancement, using whatever methods are most effective to get ahead, with no concern for who gets hurt along the way. Neutral evil can frequently have moments when it looks lawful, and moments when it looks chaotic, but that is a side effect of having decided that, in a given moment, lawful or chaotic methods are more convenient, rather than any meaningful commitment to one alignment or the other.

@ OP: This character is certainly evil, most likely CE, though NE could be made to work too. There is no flavor of neutral on the good-evil spectrum that you should even consider making this character.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

This is definitely Chaotic Evil - but with a dose of insanity. This character concept I would argue is something less-than-human and I'd place it in that category of "beyond evil." What kind of person kills to rid oneself of emptiness? Killing for joy and pleasure even seems more humane in that comparison.

[Trishula]

She is inhumane, yes. But I'm not roleplaying her as not being human phsyically, she just doesn't think like a human....in that sense she is inhumane, but she is still human, and she knows this. I.e. she has MoD so she will eventually die.

Psychotic was sort of what I was going for. I'm sick of playing goodie two shoes characters....heh.

[Yma23]

I'm going to break this down to a meta level a moment.
Simple question: In Game do you see your character doing mostly Goodly Acts? Mostly Evil Acts? Or Neither?

Keep in mind Alignment doesn't come up so much when our characters are navel gazing going, but with the actual actions we take In Game.

Now the remorse/regret might mean that their story takes them down another alignent path later - and that's awsome! But it occurs to me what the DM's/Players will mostly judge you on is your characters actions.

[Nitro]

To latch on to Yma's comment, alignment isn't something that people just philosophize over in D&D, it's an actual tangible force. It doesn't matter if you had good intents while performing a horrible atrocity, it's still an evil act and you're going to become evil for doing it.

An excellent example would be the banite philosophy, they don't consider what they're doing to be evil, they seek to enforce law and order through any means necessary. To them, tyranny is the only option because the unwashed masses will without fail screw up on their own.

[Iceborn]

It really depends on the intent.

Some LE characters are actually working for good things. Like law, order, justice... but their methods are draconic and brutal.

More info needed to pass judgement.

AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?!

Alignment is an inclination. By rule of thumb, doing evil only makes you evil -if- you have a choice.
And if you lack that choice... it's a matter of intention.
My view on it.

[CragOneEye]

It really depends on the intent.

Some LE characters are actually working for good things. Like law, order, justice... but their methods are draconic and brutal.

More info needed to pass judgement.

Perfect archetypes of Lawful evil: Bane, Raz-a-ghul from Dark Night movie Trilogy, Magneto, Darth Vadar, Doctor Doom (from the comics not movies).

Perfect Archetypes of LN: The AI antagonist from the movie IRobot,The Punisher, Rorschach, The Borg (even though Startrek paints them as evil),.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Rorschach is definitely LE.

[Peppermint]

To my understanding, the Borg are as well. Infringing on personal freedoms for the sake of your own agenda is pretty much the definition of evil.

Yma has the right of it. I don't think it's helpful to get caught up in the intent vs. action debate. Boil it down to this: what role does your character play? Do they tend to do evil things? Then they're evil, regardless of their intentions. Vise versa for good.

[Scurvy Cur]

Thirding? this.

One of the most standard archetypes of evil is the villain who ultimately believes he's doing the world a long-term favor, so killing a few people (or a few hundred thousand people) to get it done is a neccessary, if regrettable, down payment on a brighter future.

Actions should be the focus of your consideration.

[Red Sunset]

Actions?

Both intent and actions go hand in hand.

Your character just killed someone. Why? Did your character just want something the victim had? Did your character do it to protect others? Did you character do it because your character wanted to be famous? All these are intentions and important.

A question. If you help or are kind to others because you want the same consideration in return, the old this for that, does this make you a good person? This is a rather self centered way of arriving at the opinion you are a good person.

When you start saying actions are good and evil you are in the territory of equating obeying the law with some sort of moral correctness. Not all actions are inherently good or evil, look at killing. Dare I bring up Robin Hood?

Alignment is not something easily answered in one paragraph responses that seem to conveniently and tidily sum it all up into something easily understood. Its not even answered in what I just wrote. Its not easily understood because understanding ourselves and others is not easy. We may have a conscience and feel bad about things we do but keep doing whats contrary to that feeling anyway. Why? ah well...intentions. Could be looking out for the self, could be your character is a spy (poor undercover spies...what a alignment discussions those would be heh). In short intentions are just as important as actions in knowing your character, and yourself.

[Nathan Brack]

unlike the real world, evil is a tangible and measurable thing in the DnD universe.

therefore, if your character does evil things, it's an evil character. if your character does evil things and good things, they're an evil character (evil weighs pretty heavily). if your character does mostly good things, but willingly and willfully murders... they're still an evil character. alignment isn't a judgement to follow, it's a culmination of what your character does or is at their very core.

guilt != good intentions. if your character stopped doing "evil things" for long enough, they could slide back up the the alignment tree towards good (starting with neutral). such a thing would require actively seeking redemption, however. and continuing to "mess up" wouldn't mean progress, it would mean trying... but still an evil alignment overall (protection from evil would still be effective against you, after all)

[taoofbalance]

unlike the real world, evil is a tangible and measurable thing in the DnD universe.

therefore, if your character does evil things, it's an evil character. if your character does evil things and good things, they're an evil character (evil weighs pretty heavily). if your character does mostly good things, but willingly and willfully murders... they're still an evil character. alignment isn't a judgement to follow, it's a culmination of what your character does or is at their very core.

guilt != good intentions. if your character stopped doing "evil things" for long enough, they could slide back up the the alignment tree towards good (starting with neutral). such a thing would require actively seeking redemption, however. and continuing to "mess up" wouldn't mean progress, it would mean trying... but still an evil alignment overall (protection from evil would still be effective against you, after all)

+1 This

This is a world where spells have specific effects based on alignment and characters can be punished and rewarded by deities that represent these alignments. While I'm all for characters trying to justify their actions and believe they are doing good, as there is no real person that is simply 1 shade of gray, the gods will inevitably place them somewhere on that wheel of alignment and their souls will be tainted by their actions.

So you need to ask yourself, "Where does this character fit in the grand-scheme of the cosmos?" When he inevitably dies where will his soul go?