Whats the point of Assassin Class?

[Yorick Shadowfeather]

Is the Assassin class kinda worthless? Recently I made an Assassin char and was really really hyped about it. The Rp was unlike any i had ever done- and it was really fun. But when it came down to it- and i did some digging-... I thought about how weak the class is -not just in pvp(even though that's kinda what they should be meant for) But in pve- You are much much better off going with Rogue instead. Assassins don't get all the nice free feats that rogues get past 10th level. Really- The only thing you get is poison only saves, free use poison(which really isn't even needed), And Death Attack- and with easily 90% of the playerbase being Powerbuilds, they will have 35+ fort, and the highest reasonable dc is 42... So its a crap chance when you could have used kd as a Rogue for the same effect. An Assassin can still kd too- But then whats the point of going assassin when you are playing a Rogue instead?

The reasons I say that the class is disappointing:

1: Poison sucks. Like... BAD. There is literally no purpose in it- It lasts such a short amount of time that its not worth using, Not to mention the low DC's they have. Poison should be an Assassins best friend, Not a sad excuse for nasty tasting water or a slime coated blade.

2: The purpose of this class is to assassinate people, But they cant even do it. I really enjoyed the Rp of it, because looking into peoples lives and learning about them was tons of fun. But I couldn't actually be what I wanted: an Assassin. Granted- The "Be Nice" Rule is a must- and i respect it. But when there is no element of suprise, an Assassin loses his DA, And then he's dead meat. Assassins should not get freedom from the rule- But that doesn't change the huge impact is has on them.

3: No matter how much preparation an Assassin has done, He is doomed to fail anyway. Unlike a Wizard, Whom if prepared for a specific fight, he nearly ALWAYS wins- However an Assassin can learn every single thing about a person, The weaknesses, The strengths, And even their personality.They can have a perfect plan of action, complete this plan perfectly, And still fail 90%+ of the time(of a fight of equal level)... Even after MUCH more preparation than a Wizard.

4: While the idea of having DA on an Assassin is super awesome... Its really over hyped. The highest dc you can even get (with a level 30 cap I think) is like 45. The highest reasonable one is around 42, If you do it right. That's not including the loss of ab, Which isn't really important in an Rp sense, But for an assassin to function, He has to hit. And having that high of a DC kills ab, and you could have a dc of 1000000 and it wouldn't matter. Now- in Pve- Its really helpful at first with that high of a dc. But its only good for one monster- one time. As for pvp- Characters of the same level will usually have about a 5-25% chance of getting caught in it. This changes at max level to an almost solid 5%.

5: An Assassin should be hiding in the shadows- gathering information and planning a course of action- and then finally killing his target. As the preparation is pointless... Its a waste of time. Why would you have gone Assassin class when it cant even do its job with the kit given? Anyone can gather information after all.

I mean... It just bummed me out that the class itself has ended up so weak, and its whole purpose is a failure. I don't really want it buffed to being overpowered because then everyone will play them (like barbs)... I just wanted to see if my opinion was shared with anyone else, Or if there was something i missed that would make it a better experience. Maybe i just expected it to be more- And requiring rpr bonus I got excited and my hopes where high. But there is nothing stopping me from calling myself an Assassin without this class...

[Lorkas]

Well, if nothing else a 27 rogue/3 assassin would have an extra 1d6 sneak damage compared to a 30 rogue, so it's like a free Improved Sneak Attack feat even if every other aspect of the class is bad. A free epic-feat-equivalent is totally worth it to such a build.

Then there is the fact that in Arelith it gives you access to the assassin's guild, which means that you can target certain PCs and attack them without prior RP.

In any case, being an assassin is not about fighting toe-to-toe with your target when they're at their best. Follow them in stealth and wait until they take off their heavy armor and rest, dispelling all of their buffs.

[Yorick Shadowfeather]

Wait... The Guild bypasses the "Be Nice" rule? Attacking when they are at their most vulnerable makes complete sense -That's what an Assassin should do- I only thought it was unallowed in every way because of that Rule. I've thought about all the cool ways Assassins can do those things, But it always seemed wasted because breached the Rule somehow. I mainly felt as though the class in general was pointless because builds like that ^ use so little of it, that the impact isn't really all that great. Taking 3 levels in a class to call yourself an Assassin just seems like a waste to me- I feel that the benefits it gives are not worth the effort to work it into almost any build. I do like the Guild thing though. That is very cool, But i'll need to think a bit on it to see if it makes much difference to me personally.

[FoxyPigeon]

Totally Agree that poisons are very underwhelming, and for anyone who tries to use them, even just increasing the duration to that of the temp. essences could be cool. Currently they only last a couple rounds and are not really worth bothering with honestly. :/

[Orian_666]

Yorick, yea, as long as the person has a contract on their head a guild assassin can attack them whenever they want. The only thing you have to do prior to the attack is hostiling them.

[livingNPC]

The assassin class is anything but weak, and you're putting in too much thought on the paralyse DC, cause I use the paralyse as a 5% chance. I know of others who are amazing at focusing on paralysing, but that comes down to your own playing style.

Also... I love the poison, even though it doesnt last long at all. That too has a 5% chance of succeeding and if you can get off 6 attacks per round, eventually your target will roll a 1, with saves.... and 1 is auto failure, same with death attack.

But as an assassin there are other ways to kill, not just PvP. You can get someone else to kill them, after being framed, then just tag your mark's corpse for the payment.

The guild master already says all you need to be a great assassin. She doesnt be deadly, be an amazing fighter, she says be smart. So just be creative.

[Jagel]

But the important bit is: only people with a contract on their head can be attacked by assassins without prior rp.

[P Three]

But the important bit is: only people with a contract on their head can be attacked by assassins without prior rp.

And tbh if "ganking without RP" is why you want to take this class, don't.

[Cortex]

But the important bit is: only people with a contract on their head can be attacked by assassins without prior rp.

And tbh if "ganking without RP" is why you want to take this class, don't.

*looks up from grinding 20 ftr 7 wm 3 assassin*

wait wot?????

[Yorick Shadowfeather]

So first off... An Assassin getting someone else to kill a target. Who can they hire? An Assassin of course. Sense make...? Assassins ARE the people you call to kill people with guile. If you want them dead in any way to begin with -not killed quickly and quietly(not going to happen in most cases)- Assassins are once again pointless.

That aside- A character that relies on 5% to do his own job is exactly what i'm talking about. Assassins in reality of Forgotten Realms or even RL Have much higher chance than one in twenty to kill their target after as much study as they would have to do. Whether they die or not isn't part of the equation- a lot of assassins die from the job- but FAR more often complete their goal in death. Assassin class in and of itself has no proper means of doing its own job correctly. Adding other classes will help(20fighter7wm3Assassin), But that doesn't really qualify as Assassin In my opinion.

I mean.. Assassins are meant to take people out at their weakest- And builds like that Have no purpose in sneaking around when they actually win fights. It's really just an excuse to bend the rules of the Assassin Guild. Honestly- i think its super cool that they allow it, But in the end it will only be exploited in builds like that^. Because it -and everything that should be used by it (poison mostly) Sucks pretty bad. I don't see purpose in taking this class- When anyone can still take the role of Assassin and do better- Not even to get the Guild rites of partial exemption to "Be Nice".

I really like that Assassins themselves get to Work a little differently, My issue is that they just can't do it to begin with -Even after Exploiting an enemy when they are vulnerable- The fail rate is still unreasonable. 5% chance to kill someone you have stalked for IG months, Prepared yourself before hand with a lifetime of training, Creating an exact plan and executing it to every detail Is just... Well. Its really bad...

[Cuchilla]

I think the trouble with the assassin class can be boiled down to that paralyze - if you want it to be efficient - got a very high price. Some might say, so high that it aint worth it. And whilst many other class specific feats (bard song etc) can be good roleplay feats/skills ... assassins dont really have good roleplay feats, at least how I see it.

Imo, one of the pains with assassins is the flashing around with "death attack". I know that Blackguards got that too. But if you wish to keep your assassin identity secret, that's not the best way to do it.

[Scurvy Cur]

First, don't take livingNPC's comments to the bank as the only reasonable way to run an assassin (he said himself that it's just one way among several). Assassin can be a mechanically viable class in several builds that will work fine in PvE and PvP situations. It's one of the trickiest classes to build right, but can be done.

With respect to assassination mechanics, you'll probably find two types of assassin on the server: one which takes a lot of assassin levels and relies on devastating surprise attacks, and another that tags 3 assassin levels onto an already strong PvP build (I'm not so thrilled about seeing the latter, because it's going to happen).

In the case of the first sort of assassin, it's worth remembering that death attack builds require loads of assassin levels to get good, and many characters that rely on sneak attack style damage do not get good until well into epic levels. Additionally, these builds are exceptionally easy to screw up, as they tend to require a proper blend of offense, survival, stealth, and utility. Goofing up in any single field can wreck the character.

Some general purpose advice:

Build carefully. If you aren't sure, ask for advice on the build. You'll get lots of people willing to offer advice, and some of it will even be good.

learn which targets are easy, and which are not. Pick up easy marks when they're available, be aware of which ones are challenging but doable, and which ones are out of your league: there are some opponents against whom stealth ganks just aren't very effective. Some characteristics of easy marks are: low AC, low fort saves or reliance on spellcraft to make fort saves, poor discipline scores, lack of detection, dependence on buffs, and a low HP pool, especially when combined with low AC or disc. Hard targets have the opposite traits.

Get familiar with UMD and consumables. Stealth attackers probably more than any other archetype of character benefit from creative and proactive use of UMD, because UMD allows them to set up situations that heavily favor them; you are not playing a character that excels in straight up fights, you are playing one that takes good advantage of unfair fights, and has the tools to make sure unfair is exactly the sort of fight they get.

Really, the hyperbole and hysterics aren't helping people connect you with the answers you need. Those answers are out there though, and asking calmly for a little advice will probably get you further.

[Yorick Shadowfeather]

I really appreciate the advice- It helps a lot. I may have been complaining a little- But that's not what I meant to do. An Assassin shouldn't be a better build than every other build just because they get the drop on them. I only felt that a legitimate "assassin" Is to weak to do what the class says.

If i'm the only one that feels this way I guess its just something I did wrong... I'll try the tips you guys leave here and see how much difference it makes.

[Dinosaur Space Program]

Back before the PvP rule changes, wow I feel old now, of yonder yesterday I had an assassin.

It was heavy in assassin, high in death attack DCs, and was absolutely a Blast to play. It did well in PvE but like any offensive rogue it needed a buddy (a mage made up for its issues easily) and in PvP it was Really nasty.

Death attacks are tricky to get off in PvP but not impossible. There are a number of ways to flat foot a target or enable them because as long as they aren't attacking you and you get a sneak, you get a death attack. There are ways to do this that aren't initiative exploits as well through the use of UMD. If you don't get a death attack on first strike though or a second time through a blind/darkness? Give up and just chainsaw them down.

Pretty much why I~ enjoyed my assassin is that it made me be creative with the toolset I had. You aren't an unstoppable death machine. But really, no build is or should be. You're a glass cannon. But a glass cannon with a lot of tricks to play with.

[Nathan Brack]

Just going to point out an often overlooked feature of death attack (unless it was somehow changed on arelith).

Due to the flurry system of attacks, you should get two (three of you monk it up) death attacks against the target in the first round. Both force a save. If the fail one of them, gg, no re (for 24 hours). If you have that dc 40 death attack and they have 35 fort, that's actually not a terrible chance to auto-win the fight.

[Stath]

Killing people and getting big moneys.

[P Three]

Killing people and getting big moneys.

QFE

[RamblerTeo]

Killing people and getting big moneys.

+ Cheesy one-liners