Another Kensai Thread

[Anime Sword Fighter]

Give to Kensai:

• Innate Ability: On-Use Item Property:Cure Minor Wounds (Self) Unlimited Uses

People seemed to be in favour of a sort of 'fast healing' thing for the Kensais, so instead of the potentially-server-lagging Regenerate, this would work.

• Innate Ability On-Use Item Property: Unique True Strike, 1 use + 1x Dex. Modifier

Represents their rigorous training with their weapons, able to keenly strike at the opponent with enough concentration.

• Add the new Fighter weapon enhancement to anyone who takes Kensai (Does not stack with Fighter already)

The increasing enhancement would go off the base class that the PC started off as, so if they multiclass then they aren't getting that +6 at level 30

• +1 Will Save every 5 levels.

Unsure if I would rather it be +1 every initial class level or overall level with this.

• Apply the Massive Critical property to an equipped weapon, scaling as:
  Level 1: 1d4
  Level 15: 1d6
  Level 30: 1d12

Again hopefully scales with the initial class chosen.

[Ecstatic]

Don't think it's going to be possible to give Kensai a widget that replicates spells. Kensai are barred from spells, as I understand it, by setting every spell school to prohibited, as per a specialist mage's lost school. This is to prevent a Kensai with sufficient UMD from ever activating a wand, or using a class spell like ability (assassin invis, BG bull's strength, etc) to get around their drawback. The same restriction would hit spell widgets I believe.

The fighter update actually made Kensai much better, thanks to now having the ability to soft cap their primary stat. I still wouldn't put it on something like a monk, but the case can be made for a fighter Kensai being servicable now.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

Damn. I had been under the impression they could use magic if it was in their Innate Ability widget.

WELP.

Though, if an on-hit spell is applied to their weapon equipped, would it work then?

[Ecstatic]

I think so. I don't know how taxing on server resources it would be, but you could give Kensai a weapon that had a chance to do, say, a slow on hit that scaled to 10% chance, DC 12, 1 round at level 10, 15% chance, DC 16, 2 rounds at level 20, and 20% chance, DC 20, 4 rounds at level 30.

[rat0a]

I been a defender of the Kensai class since forever....I like the class alot..finding suitable companions to do things is a challenge, recently one of my Kensai's made lvl 30..... not many Kensai"s get there

But with the new Fighter Mechanic I have my doubts now....

I like my high AC STR Fighter and with the new fighter mechanic they are doable now.
So why bother anymore? and I only get half of the deal with the perma haste on speed


Again how a Kensa'i...a highly trained melee character that is forbidden to use even a raise scroll runs
like a little girl from a 18DC fear from a goblin is hilarious

[Ecstatic]

Not sure where the notion that Kensai is less attractive with the new fighter mechanic than it was before comes from. With all due respect, a Kensai any character that is regularly blowing DC 18 will saves probably has issues that are build related, rather than path related. This is particularly true for a Kensai with 15 or more levels of Fighter, now that the new fighter changes are in.

Getting will saves into the low to mid 20s is not terribly difficult, even for low will save class combinations, and is heavily advisable for anyone taking large amounts of fighter (and will thus have the feats to do do anyhow), and also heavily advisable for anyone that knows they will not have a clarity potion to bail them out. My personal experience has been that characters, with will saves below 15 or so have intentionally neglected to take any defensive feats or gear to compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the class. Usually, this is so they can take every single offensive combat feat they can get their hands on, which is totally fine if you want to be the most impressive damage dealer you can be, but neglecting to pick up a little defense as part of that build is a conscious choice. This goes doubly for fighter, who really have no excuse not to pick up luck of heroes and iron will at the very least, and now ought to have at least a few points of saving throws on their gear.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

Kensai can use the 'spell-like ability' items, like alchemist's fire, right?
So is it possible to make a "Cure Minor Wounds Spell-Like Ability" property, and apply THAT to the Innate Ability token?

[Mayonnaise]

It is very possible.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

Agh wait. Alchemist's fire is a 'grenade-like weapon,' so it doesn't get banned like normal.
What are the one-use items that you can find described as? Like the 'Pestilence' stone. I thought kensai could use those types, and that they were labeled as 'Spell-like abilities.'

But if even that won't work, maybe a -kensai command that applies a "Cure Critical Wounds" spell and a "True Strike" spell once per rest. If that's possible without being buggery with their restrictions.

[rat0a]

Esctatic: Oh! I know a Kensai or any character will have some problems blowing the 18DC Will saves but guess what, even the worse lvl 3 Melee or any other class character will have at least the use of clarity potions and I don't.

Oh! I know I can invest in feats, speelcraft skills, multiclass with COT, and have Will gear all over my body, been there done that.

My reasoning is that a Kensai is someone that forgo the use of magic, in other words a bad @#$ melee character but I suck resisting simple low Will saves?

They need some sort of mechanic like:
like every 4 levels you get +1 fear save or something like that at least with that you have a better chance other things suggested here I can live without it

With the fighter Mechanic I can get close AC and dicipline points of the Kensai class by enchanting the Armor, Helm and Shield. Many choose Kensai Because of the extra AC so I can get half of the Kensai deal right there if I invest on lvls, Oh! and I get to use potions as well. The will save issue sucks at lower lvls because to be honest at epic lvls you need some sort of spell caster for epic lvls areas anyway.

With all due respect, do an epic mid to high lvl Kensai and let me know what you think...cheers!!!

[Urch]

Could always give them the purple dragon knight Inspire courage ability. It's one of the ones that aren't bugged, it's a buff to team mates too which would make kensais useful in a party and it gives a bonus vs mind affecting spells (and hence, fear auras). It's also not a spell, or spell like ability, therefore it is usable by kensais.

Maybe the saving throw vs mind effecting could be enhanced for every few number of levels of the kensai's base class. Like every 5 levels an extra 1 is added to the mind affecting spells saving throw. I dunno, just an idea.

[DirtyDeity]

I'd say Kensai should get good bonuses against fear, and no EXP cost on *prays*.

[RockandRollOutlaw]

Kensai can use the 'spell-like ability' items, like alchemist's fire, right?
So is it possible to make a "Cure Minor Wounds Spell-Like Ability" property, and apply THAT to the Innate Ability token?

Any spell like ability that mimics an actual spell they will be unable to use. For instance a kensai blackguard is unable to use his bull strength spell. The same kensai blackguard can however use the Summon Fiend ability. This holds true for all items as well. Any items that mimic a spell cannot be used. While any items with an Unique Special Ability that does not replicate a spell could be used. A kensai could lay on hands, a kensai could not cure light wounds.

*EDIT*
Kensai are badass and under rated.

[Ecstatic]

Alchemist's fire is not a spell-like ability, Corey, it's an on use item property.

The easiest way to break things down is as follows:

If the ability has a spell icon, the Kensai cannot use it. Examples include: Bull's strength 1/day on Barbarian Helmet, Ressurection on Life Wyrdstone, Expeditious Retreat on Guaji, Invisibility from Assassin levels.

If the icon shows a grenade-like item use, or a unique item property, a Kensai can use it. Examples include: Attunement potion unique item property, alchemist's fire grenade-like property, water unique item property.

The former replicate effects that the engine recognizes as spells, the latter do not. Therefore the former cannot be used by Kensai, while the latter can.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

Okay. So.
UNIQUE ITEM PROPERTY ON INNATE ABILITY TOKEN: Cure Minor Wounds, True Strike
Yes? This works. Maybe.

Also was this thread moved from suggestions to Slanty Shanty or did I post it here by mistake.
ily too mithreas

[ArcanaFTW]

Why not give them scaling SR?

[yellowcateyes]

SR is one of those mechanics that I would hesitate to lean on. Either it is overpoweringly effective or laughably useless, and rarely in between.

Rather, I think Kensai would be better off with an innate ability item property that functions similarly to restore or antidote. Or even a greater restore at higher levels, incorporating self-heals. Chalk it up to intense personal discipline, or the grit to make it through tough situations. It could possibly be made into a '-' command so Kensai can use it while feared.

The kensai's inability to repair attribute damage, or shed debilitating debuffs, is a major weakness. Low will saves can be overcome through proper feat, skill, and class selection. But there's nothing a kensai can do if their STR bottoms out from crippling strike, or if a certain save-less spell blinds and deafens them.

Another issue Kensai have is dealing with the basic invisibility spell. (Also applies to PvE with the number of mobs that now use it.) And, unlike Trueflamers, they can't pick up a pixie familiar to compensate.

[Ecstatic]

Though I would wonder if allowing them too many efficient coping mechanisms would go against the spirit of the path. The entire path is structured around getting a very potent boost in exchange for also getting a pretty big weakness. If anything, I would favor something to make the boost a little stronger, while keeping the weaknesses in place to make the trade off a little more worthwhile, but that is personal taste and preference more than anything: I feel a path should feel as different from the base class as is needed to make it feel like an entirely separate class, wherever possible.

For similar reasons, I would also favor steering clear of giving them too many abilities that directly replicate the spells they supposedly just gave up.

[High Primate]

I move to give them some sort of bonus vs mind-affecting spells. It just seems so contrary to the spirit of the class that a band of kensais would go running at the sight of a dragon.