A very lengthy farewell, critique and kudos

[Lorkas]

I assume you mean mechanically rewarding, since for a lot of people the RP is its own reward. It's the reason that we're here instead of a pure grinding game.

As far as mechanical benefits for RP, propose something that won't get all the favoritism complaints that the RPR system has always received and I'm sure it will be considered.

[Whitewood]

For that to work, we need to have plenty of characters who adhere roughly to the stereotypes of the world. Banites attempting to dominate the isle. Wizards gathering together to share some of their knowledge while jealously hoarding the rest. Elves and Dwarves jealously guarding their strongholds, with little tolerance for evil. And in the darkness below, nefarious forces backstabbing each other and occasionally gathering under a charismatic leader to threaten the World Above. A city full of humans being, well, human, with all the light and darkness you'd expect of humanity.

Arelith does a pretty good job of setting this up. When you play on Arelith, the players around you are a key part of your environment, just as you are a part of theirs. The characters around you are far more important than the NPCs and areas to the story you can weave.


This is by no means the only way to run a server, and there are other servers out there that cater to unique characters far more than we do. Our focus is on creating an immersive and deep environment to play in, and that means that we have to police the most important part of the RP environment - player characters.

-Mith

I'm gonna have to challenge that little tadbit there. Firstly, whats the point of having stereotypical characters who do the exact same routines, or have the exact same attitude, personality on a daily basis? Why is the playerbase there if all you're going to do is slap players who dont act like stereotypical Drow or a stereotypical Orog, Goblin, Duergar.

Ive even known a player who used to be a good friend of mine before he left to do other things and lost contact. The player had a character that was a noble matron, and he really rocked at rping and acting the part, but the immersion and situations during that time were hectic and silly, causing drow males to murder priestesses in public, insult them, not even bothering to bow or any of that typical stuff.
My friend went on to kill and punish those insolent males for being heretical, and what do they get in return for playing the typical drow and adhering to your rules. A hard slap or two by DMs several times, telling him he couldnt do that, etc. As Time went on, he eventually got banned for rping as a Drow Noble Matron, which is to me, VERY VERY SILLY and unjust.

Why should i have to play a dumb, cowardly, theiving goblin every time? Do i have to make a brutish dumb orog who cant really speak very well and cant read? DO i have to make a drow priestess and roleplay them as a typical priestess? To me, it just seems like you want boring characters and a singleplayer experience, correct me if i seem wrong.

This is not a flaming, bashing post, just wishing for things to get cleared up, made sense out of situations and the like, and my rambling again.

[The GrumpyCat]

I will say one thing in defence of the DM team - it seems you joined towards the end of the DM shift of this six months. Sadly, as a shift moves on people burn out. I believe we started last shift with 11 dm's, and ended it with about 6. With a new shift starting, there should be a few more quests and such around. (I myself have recentally become more addicted than ever to DMing! XD). I don't say this to dissuade you from leaving, or to be too defensive - but I do feel it only fair to point it out.

As reguards 'specialness'. IMO I think characters should be special for WHO they are, rather than WHAT they are.

Honestly one of the best ways you can be 'special' is by playing something very normal!

[Silent Handshake]

Got to say i have been thinking of leaving the server for the very same reasons as ice and flame and i know of others saying the same these days.
it is near impossible to get into things today when all you really hear in the ooc is "this and that group getting it all" "well yeah they are either dms or friends of dms" (this isnt really far from the truth, like it or not) when i started playing here the servers felt more like a "we make good with what we have and that is all we need server" but lately with all the new updates to everything the server has become a pile of unused mechanics and areas (my view) and a heavily tilted playerbase where it certainly feels like one group of people is on top of everything with every character they ever own, making it harder for those out of that group.
im still concidering staying ofc but meh its less interesting today.

[Mithreas]

It's not a matter of slapping people who don't play to stereotype.

It's a matter of having a system that encourages people to play within the system, rather than play outside of it. Think of RP space as something as vast as the universe, and RP as something that happens when two people meet within it. We have a community of a few hundred people, so we have to occupy a fairly small sector of RP space for those meetings to happen. Yes, there are loads of other valid ways to play characters. But to create meaningful stories, the characters have to overlap.

I'll talk briefly about my three highest level Arelith characters as examples.
- My first was a human fighter, retired mercenary captain who lost his company to a shipwreck. Mature and experienced, but nothing 'special' about him. He ended up in the Cordor guard (after running an independent company for a bit) and made commander before his story ended. As a faction leader and faction lieutenant, his role in the server's story was to help Cordor's guard play a useful role in other people's stories.
- My second was a Halfling warlock (before warlocks existed, so she was a rogue/sorc). She started out as a rogue looking out only for herself, and was an antagonist for Benwick (then Light Keep) for her first short story arc, until they realised what she was. She then joined Bendir, and played a community role there. In time, another character convinced her to give up her pact and her power, and she devoted herself to Dallah Thaun as a priestess. Later, she became Mayor of Bendir, displacing Queen Sadamara. After a spell as an antagonist for another faction, her story role was closely bound up with Bendir, interacting with other halflings who had an interest in the community.
- My third was a Drow wizard. His overriding goal was to become independent of females, which he eventually achieved as Ul'faeruk (leader of Sorcere) - though only after the house he was with largely disbanded while he was in post and strong enough not to just bow to another matron. Achieving that independence, though, required a huge amount of RP - first off (while weak) by making himself useful, and later invaluable, to powerful Drow, then by building up the Sorcere and making it a useful weapon for Udos and its Council, so that when he made his move he was always judged to be useful enough to be left alone and alive. His story arc was tightly bound up with the city of Udos and the Drow houses living there, and he was a particularly significant figure within the Sorcere, training up apprentices and (first) supporting and (then) mentoring other arcanists.

The human fighter is about as traditional an archetype as you can get. So is the Drow wizard. The halfling rogue is a true stereotype, tossing Sorcerer in there to make Warlock is more unique, but because the concept was built with an eye to how it would interact with other players, it made for a character who was sometimes protagonist, sometimes antagonist, but always interacting. In all cases, though, the characters were genuine, with their own biases, ambitions, strengths and weaknesses, and they all had great stories while also enriching the stories of those around them - because they had reason to intertwine their stories with others. That's really what it's all about, and that's the biggest weakness of most 5% characters.

--

So... you don't have to play a dumb, cowardly, thieving goblin every time. You could quite happily play a brave, strong goblin warchief. So long as your character's concept gives him reason to mix with other goblins, and the characters around them... for example, by aspiring to lead the goblin tribe and make them take their place as equals among the other races of the Underdark (or even to subdue them all). That's the sort of vision that drives an RP story arc.

Or brutish, dumb orogs... well, canonically, orogs aren't dumb or brutish, but disciplined and skilled. But taking a disciplined, skilled orog... why does your orog exist? Are they a perfect solider, a henchman other characters can rely on? (Don't underestimate the value of henchmen PCs, who are key to making factions work well). Or are they an ambitious, would-be leader? Or perhaps a renegade, who believes his people are idiots and will serve better under the stewardship of the Drow or Duergar? It doesn't matter what they believe, so long as they have a motivation that will drive interaction with other characters.

Because interaction with other characters is precisely what differentiates a single player experience from a multi player experience, and Arelith is not a single player game.

--

I'm not going to comment on the situation with your friend, because we don't cover that sort of thing in public. However, I'll comment that there are usually two sides to any story, and that my PM box and Skype are always available for any appeals from players who feel they have been treated unjustly.

-Mith

[PorcineAerodrome]

Everyone has moments where their disappointments with the server build up and they need to go public about it. When that happens, yes, it's time to leave or take a break--you're too emotionally invested in the server.

QFT. I've returned after two years away, and I'm in love with the server again for exactly the reasons Mithreas outlined. Most of my characters have only reached mid level, I had three epics and none of them rolled a 5% reward. I have had a hand in the leadership of both the Arcane Tower and Light Keep, which were far more exciting than the garnish of a re-roll.

Since my return, I have been equal parts RPing and grinding, these two are definitely not mutually exclusive. I usually let the toon do the fighting when he needs to, and spend the rest of the time typing emotes, dialogue, whilst excitedly rummaging through my FR reference books to refresh my memory as we travel.

I also adore the new artifacts and the enchanting system in their current state, gives you something to aim for and a purpose to go out travelling. I recommend getting an epic to start you off a very fancy crafted item that you work on from start to finish. Even if you're bored, rolling 20s for the first few levels to progress an armour for ten levels time is a further purpose for the daily things to do.

Have to say I am 100% happy with the server as it is.

[Cuchilla]

From my experience with Arelith, having a special build doesn't necesarily make a special roleplayer. And having an "ordinary" build doesn't make you a "trivial" roleplayer.

In fact, most of the players I like, do play "ordinary" chars. And many of those "special builds" can be rather uninteresting to roleplay with.

Not saying that this is THE rule. Interesting roleplay can come out of special builds. And ordinary builds can be played

My point being that it takes two things to make interesting chars: First of all players who really create interesting roleplay, and second a system that doesn't kill it. Although Arelith isn't perfect, I find that it for 10 years (almost) has been able to create an ever changing and interesting FR world.

Can't get closer to it.

[Dunshine]

As far as the epic sacrifice system is concerned. Perhaps a couple of suggestions that might improve it.

- Change the RPR system a little. Increase the levels of RP ratings from 4 to 6, meaning 10 to 60 max. Use "Good RP tags by DMs" to do the shifting in RPR. If 1 DM tags a PC for "Good RP" the RPR goes to 1, if another DM tags the same PC for "Good RP" it goed to 2. If DM number 3 tags the PC for good RP it goed up to 3, and so on. Also, if a DM removes his "Good RP" tag from a PC (or tags him for bad RP), it lowers by 1 again. This ensures a more dynamic system. I think it's a bit stale right now.

- Then an adjustment in epic sacrifices, allowing only PCs with a mimum of say 30 or 40 (up for debate) to be able to get one.

- And, probably most important, everytime a PC has an epic sacrifice succes, the RPR of that player drops back to 0 and all "DM Good RP tags" are removed again. This ensures that this player really has to put in an effort again and RP this unique character well.

Sure, there is the favoritism argument against this again, but well, that goes for the entire RPR system as is as well.

This system will also benefit people chosing not to sacrifice their epics, but just start new ones without any uniqueness, they keep their possibly high RPR and benefit from that. So ensuring there's also a nice amount of players doing the more "stereotypical" character.

[Madukthedoppelganger]

- Change the RPR system a little. Increase the levels of RP ratings from 4 to 6, meaning 10 to 60 max. Use "Good RP tags by DMs" to do the shifting in RPR. If 1 DM tags a PC for "Good RP" the RPR goes to 1, if another DM tags the same PC for "Good RP" it goed to 2. If DM number 3 tags the PC for good RP it goed up to 3, and so on. Also, if a DM removes his "Good RP" tag from a PC (or tags him for bad RP), it lowers by 1 again. This ensures a more dynamic system. I think it's a bit stale right now.

Wouldn't that change the RPR from being based on the quality of your rp to being based on the number of DMs you are noticed by?

[P Three]

- Change the RPR system a little. Increase the levels of RP ratings from 4 to 6, meaning 10 to 60 max. Use "Good RP tags by DMs" to do the shifting in RPR. If 1 DM tags a PC for "Good RP" the RPR goes to 1, if another DM tags the same PC for "Good RP" it goed to 2. If DM number 3 tags the PC for good RP it goed up to 3, and so on. Also, if a DM removes his "Good RP" tag from a PC (or tags him for bad RP), it lowers by 1 again. This ensures a more dynamic system. I think it's a bit stale right now.

Wouldn't that change the RPR from being based on the quality of your rp to being based on the number of DMs you are noticed by?

This, which could present a problem for people who play at odd hours. However, I do think the RPR thing should honestly be standardized. I may put 40 hours of my best RP in and still not be as "good" as someone who RPs less, but it's my personal best RP. I don't, and never have, think it's fair to call people better in this area. If you're doing your best, it's disappointing to be told you're still not good *enough*. Just my thought.

[Arther Goodmane]

Until someone invents a sentient AI to observe players in an unbiased manner 24/7, you can't seriously expect your role play to be rewarded or monitored. In the good old days, DMs more or less did exactly that though, monitored role play. Consistent good role play were rewarded. And I am sorry to say this, but there will probably never be a perfect solution to this. You can't demand or expect to be rewarded when you do great role play (Though I encourage you to do so, it makes playing the game fun!), and be disappointed when no one notices you. Even favoritism is going to be a factor which will haunt us, but it's unavoidable.

The fact of the matter is that this is a GAME, not a job, not school, not university, a game. The DMs can only do so much. Now the DMs can either level the playing field and never reward anyone for good RP, which imo would make it a bit bland or they can try to reward good roleplay by adopting a setup, either the existing one or listening to some of your guy's ideas. Dunshine seemed to be onto something honestly.

But ultimately, there is no perfect way to do this. Just create that character you fantasized being when you were a little, snot nosed kid, live out your fantasy and have fun. That's my advice though, if you feel differently, I can respect that.

As for the OP. Hey, better to have roleplayed and quit then never to have roleplayed at all.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Someone mentioned how everything on this server encourages grinding- they mention super-expensive quarters

I STILL SEE PEOPLE AUCTIONING QUARTERS FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MORE THAN THE ACTUAL PRICE.

This practice needs to be ruled out. I cannot help but see it as volatile, ivory-tower, and insular. It's single-handedly one of the worst practices on this server that players buy into.

Mith, if anything from this thread, ban this activity. It's the epitome of super-wealthy players characters creating a circlej--- of auctioning off valuable space not to individuals who make roleplay, but those who have considerable wealth.

This is how quarter space gets passed off to a small % of the server. There is no free-for-all. It's for the 1%. This is not how quarters used to be, but this is how many of the 'popular' ones have transformed into.

[The GrumpyCat]

Consistent good role play were rewarded. And I am sorry to say this, but there will probably never be a perfect solution to this. You can't demand or expect to be rewarded when you do great role play (Though I encourage you to do so, it makes playing the game fun!), and be disappointed when no one notices you. Even favoritism is going to be a factor which will haunt us, but it's unavoidable.

This. Just This.

We do try very hard to make sure everyone gets treated fairly - but there's only so much we can do.

As DM's I would say the three things we do the most are
a) Run quests
b) Solve problems
c) Rate Roleplay.

Any one of these things can require hours of single minded attention. Add to that we also want to play sometimes too- and lead real lives of course, so there's just only so much we can do.

[CragOneEye]

I honestly prefer the reward system as is, as it leaves less room for favouritism. What I would like to see are more perks to the normal awards, not things as "special" as 5% but special enough that not everyone feels they need to grind and grind and grind to get 5%

[Dalenger]

Special is bad.

I agree. It's great to be special, but in the end playing a 5% race does not make you a good roleplayer. Arelith, unlike many other servers, does its very best to be as true to FR lore as possible, which means that 99% of who you encounter should be mundane races. However, just because you have to play a mundane race does not mean you have to play a muncane char. Every good roleplayer on the server is prof of this.
I do agree that the 5% system (and virtually every other roleplay facalty on the server) is flawed, in that it all revolves around exp, and with the exception of pitifull rpr xp and the extremely rare DM bonus xp, it awards grinders more than all else. I won't rant about this (almost pretty much everyone before me has already) but I would recommend drastically raising the xp given by rpr, having rpr slightly lower your ecl, and have 5% races limited to 20/30+ rpr.

Concerning DM hate, all I can comment is:
They are spending their time for the sake of the server.
Arelith has a great appeals system: if you don't like a DM ruling, obey it, and then send mith a msg, and that'll give a second opinion.
DMs aren't out to get YOU (if they are, send a msg to mith). They are people too, and can make mastakes.

All in all, I very much like the server. I find it healthy to, if I find myself getting too emotionally attached, to spend a couple months away.

Some things I think could be changed for the better:
Remove the survival system. It does nothing for roleplay, and is annoying.
Give the rpr system some love. Make roleplay effect xp more.
Make crafting give some xp.
Give the settlement system some love. Right now, 90% of being a coucellor is nagging you city to gather resources, which is no fun. Conflict=roleplay, and right now settlements have nothing to argue about.

I'll end this with saying although there are things I would change on the server in a heartbeat, I have nothing but respect for the Dev and DM team. Kudos!

[Scurvy Cur]

1) It's a system, yes. It's better than what was before, that too.
But it could be way better.
Way better.
Good RP should be the way to reward players with privileges like more exotic characters. Not luck.

that will be a hornet's nest of DM favoritism and claims of DM favoritism

and tbh most 'Good RP'-ers come to an understanding that being special and exotic is over-rated

"Good RP" is such a subjective matter. One person's "awesome RP" is another person's hackneyed, tedious, overwrought tripe. An impersonal RNG system isn't perfect, but I'd rather have it than any sort of subjective judgement: that would be a crashing disaster.

I'm not sure what to make of the statement that the 5% roll is a wall thats keeping people from playing what they envision by limiting their tools, or the implication that the default non-reward options available to everyone are restrictive and limiting. IMO, if a player can't figure out how to make a memorable, exciting character with the default options, their chances of doing so with a 5% roll actually aren't great.

@ the assortment of suggestions that we tie 5% rolls to RPR/ change how RPR is distributed:

We've made a conscious move away from RPR being the gateway to special rewards, and towards it being a nice to have bonus. Backtracking would be a mistake, I think.

[DestroyerOTN]

I honestly prefer the reward system as is, as it leaves less room for favouritism. What I would like to see are more perks to the normal awards, not things as "special" as 5% but special enough that not everyone feels they need to grind and grind and grind to get 5%

I'm seconding Crag here.

Considering the boundaries of what we can do with a 5% at this point, perhaps it's due time that more-commons become more-commons. It's easy to forget that what classifies into the reach of "exotic" has been slowly broadened, and it very much has gone beyond the original spirit of the system: a unique perk or RP beneficial trait. It's a bit beyond that now, though:We can be moderately different, or we can be something that has nothing to do with the price of tea in china.

Mithreas mentioned

- The second is immersion. If you're playing, and the ten PCs you meet are a vampire, a werewolf, a dragon, a slaadi, a gelugon, a pixie, an aasimar, a talking panther, a giant and a rakshasa, you're not in Faerun any more

-though, if one loops in totems; we already have this. It is very possible, with the current character base, to run into every single one of these - sometimes multiple times - within a single day. As a follower of Tiamat the 'Dragons' thing is already a pretty regular interaction.

I won't say there are too much. Hardly

To have a church pretty much devoted to Dragonkind and be able to firmly and truly say that there are only 4 confirmed Chromatics on the entire server (and, to my knowledge, 2 metallic, 1 other); the system has to be working in some regard.

-but the problem is that a good RPer can do way too much with it. There's no reason to shoot low when you can go just shy of god-tier. It's actually, on the flip side, been months since I've seen a Dragon Disciple that wasn't Cuthbert; which we could say is for the sake of immersion, but by already making it very possible that the person next to you - as is only true to the Forgotten Realms canon - is a dragon in human form, you're opening that old floodgate of immersion, and the idea that Mithreas' statement is true just-... isn't the case anymore.

It's hardly a thing of "minimizing" the number of people with exotic and odd traits. The limit for the moderately rare and the limit for the borderline extraterrestrial player character is the same boundary.

RDD is definitely something I'd like to see assessed. Tiefling and Aasimar as well, given you can pretty much play the gods dang demon here.

The build-happy people would still take the Gift of SR, the Grind-happy people would still take the -3 ECL. I don't see, tbh, why it hasn't been thought of to throw out a few options that the RPers will take.*

RDD synergizes horribly with the classes you can take it with (exception: Palemaster, but that's just as easily monitored DM side), Tiefling is bad for pretty much everything but assassin, and Aasimar paladins aren't going to make the class any more common.

Food for thought.

*=Disclaimer: I didn't speak for the quality of such RP. This can be monitored, as well, by keeping some hard-cap on number or by requiring DM approval of the token for a special race

As an additive, I believe Iceborn was referring rather specifically to character development, as opposed to the starting point of a character. In this regard, he is correct: Templates can be gotten -as- one progresses and - in fact - the whole premise of the Dragon Disciple is that it taps into the blood you have overtime. It's a discipline, not something you lack control over, and something that - like a paladin - you can theoretically even fall from if you aren't all the way to tenth.

Mind you, I'm not saying that RDD should be a 100% open class and that vampires and werewolves should roam the street; because, and let's be honest for a moment: The primary, unspoken reason that 'limiting rarity' is a blanket excuse for is horrible, horrible RP on the part of those who attain it.

There is simply no nicer way to put it, and beating around the bush is bad. If we open the floodgates so as that -anyone- can request to become something simply because it makes sense, we open the floodgates to even more absurdity. You'll find people with no personality outside of "BLUUUUUHH I'M A VAMPIRE" or "MEOW I'M A WERECAT", or a more general lack of prowess in the form of those that select such and - as hard as they can try - can't pull off the spirit of it.

As I can astutely point out, this already happens occasionally; and the system welcomely minimizes it. However, would it be possible to make some RP based goodies which rank by RPR?

[Scurvy Cur]

One minor correction, Destroyer:

RDD has precisely one good setup. That setup is very, very good, but if you deviate in the least from it, it crashes and burns spectacularly. Actually, tbh, I think the overall quality of RDD builds has decreased since some of the build requirements were relaxed, since people have had more room to misbuild.

[Sazu]

I am going to be as honest as possible and try not to offend people.

I will probably NEVER have a 5% character due to what is required. That being the leveling and need to grind.

I hate adventuring, I admit it. I hate going out to grind and I am unsure whether it's my own personal desire to actually interact with people(something that rarely happens in the wild), or whether it's the design or layout of the wild itself.

Because I do not grind, I will never have a special character, no matter how well I RP(if I can even call my RP good at all). I'd like to think my RP is rather solid. I have created much drama, caused a war between settlements, and interacted with characters outside the typical RP interactions between races. I have never turned players nor characters away, or ignored them completely, or ostracized them as players no matter how I felt about them.

The problem with the 5% system is that in order to be special, you need to grind(which I stated above, I despise). Why would I want to be special you ask? Simple. Because I know in my heart that if I had a special character, I could and would inspire others with good ideas, promote RP over grinding, create stories, create drama, and encourage interaction without OOC bias.

To date, all the 'special' characters I've seen thus far, have grinded to create these characters, and I am sorry to say, but it shows. The lack of RP or interaction I have seen with the characters who are 5% is obvious, and most times all I have seen of them is 'Let's go out patrolling'. Probably to start on their way to create another special snowflake. On top of that, the needed grinding to create such characters inspires more grinding, less RP and less interaction overall, save to show off their special character. They don't use the special character to inspire anything, and even if they did, what would they encourage in other players but for them to grind without RP so they can roll up a dragon, undead, or whatever?

On top of that, said special characters have a mechanical advantage over non special characters, which means most of them have no problems PvPing and grinding over actually interacting, talking, and RPing. To me, the special character and their mechanical advantages should be used to foster RP, to keep one safe from PvP happy jerks and allow them to go through with their RP, and act out their character, and as well help to inspire others into plots, and be inclusive.

Instead what happens is the exact opposite. Players race to the finish line without sparing even a second glance at anyone else as they make their way to the nearest hunting grounds to grind to level 30 for the next new special character.

RPR is not playing favorites. Playing favorites is only watching those players the DMs see fit to care to watch, and ignoring the rest. RPR is reward for RP. In truth I doubt the DMs are enforced to look at everyone they can. I doubt they do or even could(they probably have little time to do so anyhow, between the moments they have to resolve conflicts or or even make attempts to set up events). Not to mention mitigating damage whenever they try to create said event(I distinctly remember a DM creating a spawn that was going to be used for an event, and rather than wait to see if the spawned creature was going to attack us or interact with us, players immediately ran up, assaulted the DM created tool to generate a plot, and destroyed it, which I found to be moronic as a player, and so did my character, who stated as much).

But then, how can you blame the players, when they are encouraged to kill on sight monsters they come across by way of 5% rewards for doing so? I'd rather the 5% thing were abolished altogether. It doesn't promote good RP, it promotes good PvE. My time here has been less cause my own character just barely reached a level, and it gets boring knowing I'll have to grind at some point. But I as a player know that I can never achieve through good RP, what someone else can achieve by killing random mundane monsters, in a sometimes rather bland setting.

[Mithreas]

However, I do think the RPR thing should honestly be standardized. I may put 40 hours of my best RP in and still not be as "good" as someone who RPs less, but it's my personal best RP. I don't, and never have, think it's fair to call people better in this area. If you're doing your best, it's disappointing to be told you're still not good *enough*. Just my thought.

I completely and totally disagree with you.

RPR is effectively a measure of how much positive impact you have on the RP environment for the players around you.

It's not about you, and it's certainly not relative to your ability.

(Sorry, Arelith isn't going to be a prizes for all culture. It's a great place to learn how to RP better, however... and we've seen a lot of people who joined us as quite poor RPers graduate to become very good indeed, by putting effort in and learning).

Mithreas mentioned

- The second is immersion. If you're playing, and the ten PCs you meet are a vampire, a werewolf, a dragon, a slaadi, a gelugon, a pixie, an aasimar, a talking panther, a giant and a rakshasa, you're not in Faerun any more

-though, if one loops in totems; we already have this. It is very possible, with the current character base, to run into every single one of these - sometimes multiple times - within a single day. As a follower of Tiamat the 'Dragons' thing is already a pretty regular interaction.

I actually chose that list for a reason, because they're all things that are either possible or have been asked for, and it shows the balancing act we have to do to prevent the limited amount of special stuff we have from overwhelming the environment.

And never mind what's theoretically possible... the more important question is how often does it actually happen? Dragons for the cult of Tiamat is OK and not immersion-threatening, in my view. But how often does your game day actually turn into visiting a menagerie?

It's actually, on the flip side, been months since I've seen a Dragon Disciple that wasn't Cuthbert; which we could say is for the sake of immersion, but by already making it very possible that the person next to you - as is only true to the Forgotten Realms canon - is a dragon in human form, you're opening that old floodgate of immersion, and the idea that Mithreas' statement is true just-... isn't the case anymore.

See, if you're right (and I'm not sure that you are) then that suggests that we need to have -less- special stuff, not more special stuff.

[Whitewood]

Wow, Sazu. That was very well said and i completely agree. I absolutely HATE grinding, but its nessesary if you want to get lvls or get anywhere within the server, but i mostly try to wait for others so i can group up and rp them, weather its just standing around or out hunting.
I strive towards group rp and interaction.
Also Mith, seems like to me you think yer always right, reminds me of a supervisor that i have.

[P Three]

I completely and totally disagree with you.

RPR is effectively a measure of how much positive impact you have on the RP environment for the players around you.

It's not about you, and it's certainly not relative to your ability.

(Sorry, Arelith isn't going to be a prizes for all culture. It's a great place to learn how to RP better, however... and we've seen a lot of people who joined us as quite poor RPers graduate to become very good indeed, by putting effort in and learning).

That's why I said it was just my take. I absolutely think some people can vastly improve their skills. But not everyone can, even if they try. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with either direction, yours or mine, I simply stand by rewarding people for even doing their damndest.

[Yma23]

I absolutely HATE grinding, but its nessesary if you want to get lvls or get anywhere within the server, but i mostly try to wait for others so i can group up and rp them, weather its just standing around or out hunting.
I strive towards group rp and interaction.

Sorry - just curious. What do you mean to 'Get anywhere within the server.' Do you mean like traveling? Or something else?

[Whitewood]

Social Clicks, Faction rank, In RP.
thats what i meant.

[Flameborn]

I'm surprised, but I totally agree with Sazu.

5% for a severe mechanical advantage that only pushes forward grinding hard.