Am I doing it wrong?

[Cadarnfel]

I'm posting this from my reply to Arthur Goodmane's "Is there still hope?" thread, as I don't want to derail that thread too much ...

I wrote:

As a player new to Arelith, and very rusty on some of the D&D mechanics, I'm struggling with building any character that can survive.

I've rerolled a number of times, working on a Wood Elf hunter. I do the basic messengering task in Corder to get up to level 3, can't find any rats on Tert's boats, so organise with Bernto to go hunting in the forest for meat.

So I head off to the forest (Brambles?) and find the rabid badgers (or whatever they are, probably wolverines ) are a tough enough fight. Then I encounter the goblin scamps, and it's goodnight time.

I've once managed to kill a handful of the goblins, and retrieved some buffed arrows that cost my entire purse to identify, only to find I'm not levelled high enough to use them .

It seems that a character needs to be levelled at least in the high single digits before leaving the city gates, and loitering around the city doesn't really suit a wood elf

I've looked at enchanting some items in Thoramund's shop, but the cost is way more than any gold I have access to, I don't seem to make any progress in crafting (and that seems a long process in itself), so it's all very discouraging.

What I'm trying to say (and what Arthur touched upon in a subsequent reply in that thread) is this;

I work on the basis of a character concept, where I base my selection of Abilities, Feats, and Skills through levels, on how I want to role play the character. I don't spend much, if any, time calculating Attack Bonuses, etc, instead just focusing on attributes that will reflect the character itself. This goes back to the way I played D&D in the pen and paper days.

If my choices make the character weak or vulnerable in certain areas, it's because the character *is* weak and vulnerable in certain areas, and that's how I'll be playing the character.

My problem is that my wood elf seems to have to stay in Cordor city trying to gather enough XP, and therefore levels, to venture out in to the woods (at least in the woods I've been able to get to - most of the time I just get beaten to within an inch, if not killed outright.

Finding fellow adventures in Cordor seems difficult, although I did have fun the other night, with my character sitting in the Nomad eavesdropping on some excellent flirting role play between two characters - although I'm sure both of them had hidden agendas .

Cordor seems to be mostly character shops and NPC characters, so aimlessly wandering around is a little, well, aimless.

I have yet to FOIG about any elf clans that may be receptive to an outsider elf - although that in itself is problematic, however does lend to the way I want to play my character (the stranger in the group, not necessarily trusted, type scenario).

A lot of the threads I've been reading seem to imply that any character will need levels of magic, or magical items to survive, and I don't really want to go down that road, but will if that's the only way to go...

The rather long economy thread was a bit of an eye opener, and seemed to imply that characters would almost *have* to live and work in Cordor for quite a while, before getting anywhere near ready to venture out into the rest of Arelith.

So, sm I shooting too high as a new player and character? Are there other avenues open to such a character?

Any advice or pointers welcome, and apologies for the long thread

[Syrima]

I sort of went the same route with my first character where I picked stuff based entirely on RP... That being said it wont really get you far especially if your'e new, and I ended up rebuilding him at level 15.

From what I've seen you can't really wing it, that's not to say you can't shape your character around RP, but if you blindly pick whatever sounds like it fits


Fortunantly a lot of nice people on here are usually willing to help out make whatever type of build you want.

[Cortex]

There is a big problem that a good portion of the server must be balanced around the best builds, otherwise, they would steamroll through everything(as some already do). This makes unorthodox builds or RP builds very bad in a great part of the game. You can make a good build without going off road from your RP, if you need help, you can just ask for build tips on Q&A with a character concept.

There are also several tricks into making your early game better, even if slow, like gathering enough gold for a few AC enchantments or having UMD and buying a few summon II/III scrolls.

[Urch]

I have a lot of experience with picking feats and abilities that represent the character, rather than for mechanical benefit. However the only real solution I found to counter being weaker was to party with other people or have good gear. The problem with that however is if you live in the Australian/New Zealand timezones, it's hard to find people around late midday/evening, and the majority of people on the server play either from 1am (Aussie time) onwards till late mornings.

Another route to take is searching crates and selling what is in there. Either that or gathering resources. If you have have at least 1 point in tailoring. you can loot any cotton plant you see and turn the product into cloth, you can sell it at the trade man. It wouldn't give much. You can also sell berries/fruit/nuts for small amounts.
Another idea is considering you are an elf, you'd have at least 1 point in carpentry, you could make yourself a fishing rod and subsequently sell any fish you catch. Sometimes you can catch necklaces and things too.

To me, lower levels is more about half decent survival gear than levelling up.

[The Man of the Moon]

The main character I have currently now, is power-wise worst than he may be, exactly because I made him to support mechanically his RP concept.

This is quite right and good if you want to keep your RP as the main ersource of your joy.

There are players that even make in purpose weak characters because that matches their concepts.

Just keep it in mind that there may be things you should avoid as may lead your character to a certain death (and then, even the best builds can die by overconfidence ;P )

[furryn]

The main character I have currently now, is power-wise worst than he may be, exactly because I made him to support mechanically his RP concept.

This is quite right and good if you want to keep your RP as the main ersource of your joy.

There are players that even make in purpose weak characters because that matches their concepts.

Just keep it in mind that there may be things you should avoid as may lead your character to a certain death (and then, even the best builds can die by overconfidence ;P )

Yeah, ever watched Troy? Just look at Achilles.

In all seriousness: The gap from weak characters to strong is so big that it scares me sometimes.
And it's sad in a way: you can end up having epic level chars who can barely handle areas that were build to be challenging to strong mid teen chars.

[ActionReplay]

It's hard to get it right when making new monsters and areas. As a general rule I usually go with:

Lots of HP, "okay:ish" AC. So even "weak" fighters can hit the critter but it will take a while And strong ones will hit anyway but the HP is there so it might take a bit longer for them as well.

I've seen a group of Epics absolutely plow through a bunch of Epic Spawns I've made, some dealing damage over 1k. It's ridiculous. And at the same time I've seen another group of Epics having a tougher time with the same spawns.

[Cadarnfel]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks, most useful.

Methinks it's time to rejig my approach to a build and the game plan / role play concept for the character - need to work on this.

My ideal would be to have a small group of character from disparate backgrounds all get off the boat around the same time, and, as in the way of such social dynamics, form a group of 'outsiders' to the established citizenry (I've observed this in real life - as a transplant to Australia myself, most of my friends and acquaintances are other transplants) and then start to form a common goal or goals.

The difficulty I see with that ideal, is that players new to Arelith are not common, so there's no character bonding over shared discoveries and the like. Long term players can obviously play new characters, but will have conscious knowledge of the environment, something that would take a lot of work to overcome. (I hope no-one thinks I'm impugning their play styles here, I'm just talking human nature.)

As Urch as mentioned, timezones will be an issue for any organised sessions.

Anyway, I'll keep at it, and maybe my character will find his way to an elven clan in the woods (or near to it) eventually

[KregorRanger]

I've been playing on Arelith for almost three years now. My advice for your playstyle is: more power to you! I know exactly the way you play. My one level 30, a ranger/rogue, grew pretty much straight around his PvE experience and what PvP he encountered. Picked favored enemies based on encounters and experience, RPed out taking almost every feat he took.

Can he stand up to a powerbuilt character? No. Was he fun to play? Very much so. Without being powerbuilt, he's gone places and done things that a majority of characters haven't. He's helped to create or been responsible for the creation of two areas that most of the players encounter regularly, one of which is the center for planar travel. In a party he's contributed well. He can't solo kholingen or red dragon isle, but what's the fun in that?

My best advice is this: if you want to party up and adventure, make yourself available and inclusive. My ranger used to camp out in Rosewind, where lowbies often staged between adventures, and offered to scout for them. I'm making assumptions your wood elf is a ranger, so you could do the same if so. Play it out. Use your tracking, emote it. My first 20 RPR came within the first two days of playing, in the process of just making sure my ranger was, a ranger. Once you get the RPR, you have less of a burden to grind. The more consistently you play to your concept, the more chance you'll get the notice.

Also, there is a woodsy place out in the Bramble Wood that has a long history of elves in it's number, good relations with the elven community, and is in dire need of new blood to man the fort, so to speak, for a new generation. It doesn't take much roaming or asking around to find out about it.

[msterswrdsmn]

How much leeway you have with RP building can heavily depend on what class you're playing. Something like a sorc or wizard has tons of leeway. As long as you put a majority/all of your skillpoints in your casting stat and pick at least one or two sets of spell focuses, you can easily afford to pick up a rp feat or two. Wizards, especially, will have plenty of skillpoints left to burn.

Something like a bard/bg or a CHA smiter paladin? Yeah, your going to have like, zero wiggle room with skills, feats, or stats without doing some serious damage to your build.

Fun fact, though; the OMFG power builds? Quite a few suck early on and need to be in a group to survive. Once they hit xxxx level where they get that one critical feat/class level? Then they start to shine, but until then? It hurts.

From what it sounds like, your playing an dex-based wood elf? Personal experience; my first serious character was a dex-based wood elf ranger with zero flying-[darn cursing filters]'s about building (ie: no discipline or multiclassing for a long time). Its hard early on. Until you get some other way of dealing damage (sneak attacks, AA arrows, whatever), dexers have a really rough time. They do a little better later on, when the DEX AB matches other builds and the AC outpaces what armor will allow. But...it takes time.

is it doable? Sure, but a large part of Mr. No-discipline melee elf's success was a combination of playing skill, more powerful friends, and the overall quality of builds across the server being weaker than they are today.

Awkward play times make things hard, but try to make friends. Some will inevitably be stronger or just flat out level faster than you. And who knows?! That level 3 right off the boat might one day be important. Somehow. Likely to happen any time soon? Probably not. BUT ONE DAY!

[Cadarnfel]

Kregor;
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as my play style is concerned. I'm here to role play first and foremost.

My wood elf is indeed a ranger, and your suggestions are great, so I'll visit Rosewind during the next few sessions*. I've had a poke around the Bramble Watch station, which was fun. I may need to stock it up for rest and recovery - the wolverines in the area were nasty during my last visit

msterswrdsmn (you know you left a vowel in there, don't you? );
Yup - DEX based, with some other interesting bits. I've no problem with mixed level groups, which present their own RP dynamics, and scope for some really interesting by-plays.

* got to balance my gaming time - currently shared between Arelith and Elite Dangerous

[ChrisY]

Hello Cadarnfel, welcome to Arelith!

You will never find a more wretched hive, of scum and villainy.

Playing from a GMT+8 Timezone, I understand where you are coming from in terms of player population during your own play times.

I hope that by sharing my own experiences, you will not get discouraged by the seemingly tough challenges of not being able to play during the populated hours, not having magical weapons or a powerbuilt non-rp character.

For magical weapons, you'll get them sooner or later, surely as the sun sets, so not to worry about that.

For having a rp based character, well, stay true to your heart. If rp is your thing, stick with it. If you build a mechanically strong character just for the sake of it, you'll lose interest VERY fast.

I have a half-orc bard that I made on a whim, no planning proir to character generation, even his stat increases during levelling were all over the place. I didn't expect him to get past level 10, since he is on MOD. In the end, he is my highest char at level 29. I had tons of fun playing him!

Second to him in play enjoyment, is my assassin bard. Again, not exactly the most... Mechanically sound of class combination combinations, but he is so so so much fun to play! So don't give up what you love, for something that MIGHT seem necessary. Sacrifice is for real life.

As for play times, during weekdays, I am able to play with some European players and US players who are able to play in their day time. It's just a matter of meeting them IG and initiating RP. Of course, during my weekends, if I have no commitments to attend do...jeez who set up the buffet?? Haha.

That being said, drop me a PM or hit me up in game. Our timing timings should be relatively similar. I have some newer characters that are available for play. And let's see if we can hook you up with some of my "same time" friends while we're at it, eh?

Edit: Sorry for the repeat words, typing from my mobile. I think it's bugged.

[Cortex]

Players can make mechanically powerful characters and still have fun with them.

[The Man of the Moon]

For having a rp based character, well, stay true to your heart. If rp is your thing, stick with it. If you build a mechanically strong character just for the sake of it, you'll lose interest VERY fast.

Yes, compatible with:

Players can make mechanically powerful characters and still have fun with them.

This... and...
Players can make mechanically powerful characters (and keep a good RP) and still have fun with them.

The RP has nothing related with be making a weak or a strong build.

Diferent things:

A. RolePlay: Will depend on your skills to immerse in your character, create a background and emote/talk throught him as if was a real one, giving life to him and interacting with others loyal to his pattern.

B. Build: Will depend on your choses and your knowledge of the mechanics. IG erpresents the good or bad training and performance of your character, is the "physical" avatar of him, while you provide his mind, spirit and emotions throught A.

Phormulas:

A & B = Excellence in all areas.
AB - B = A = Good RP (still hving fun) but as you are weak, you will find more limitations than AB (thus sometimes getting less fun)
AB - A = B = Good mindless kill machine (mindless in the sense you are not giving a propper identity to your character through RP)

Aplus & B or Aplus & Bplus= RPR 30 or 40

[ChrisY]

Ack, I better clarify and put a disclaimer to prevent further misunderstanding.

I did not mean to say that RP builds are not strong. Of course there are both mechanically strong and weak builds depending on the type of rp/character.

My concern is that Cad and other new players might have this misconception that to have fun in Arelith, they might have to follow the cookie cutter "strong build" path.

If everyone is going to
"Methinks it's time to rejig my approach to a build and the game plan / role play concept for the character - need to work on this."

What's the point of playing if everyone has to go for choice number 2, 3, 4...

[Cortex]

A build also doesn't has to be in the "overpowered" tier to be good, one of my last characters was 16/6/8 barbarian/ftr/CoT, fit the concept without being overpowered or bad.

[The Man of the Moon]

Ack, I better clarify and put a disclaimer to prevent further misunderstanding.
...

Hey, this was not meant to say you was wrong or whatever I was just extending about Cortex's point as I agreed, nothing else.

From my point of view, everyone is free to make whatever they want if they kept a single thing:

Respect

WIth respect to everyone, the fun is granted in a place as Arelith.

[Cadarnfel]

What's the point of playing if everyone has to go for choice number 2, 3, 4...

Thank you

One thing that's been puzzling me, and maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

Where can I view a character's Arelith stats (ECL, RPB, etc)?

Obviously I can see the standard NWN stats, but my build picked a couple of gifts, and of course, I'll be hoping to earn RPB points along the way.

[The Man of the Moon]

Thank you

One thing that's been puzzling me, and maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

Where can I view a character's Arelith stats (ECL, RPB, etc)?

Obviously I can see the standard NWN stats, but my build picked a couple of gifts, and of course, I'll be hoping to earn RPB points along the way.

You can see the ECL you had (and your chosen gifts) in the gadget you get in your first inventory page.

You can figure your RolePlay Rating by the xp rewarded per beat tick. (If you have a positive ECL, your xp rewarded will be lowered, if you had a negative ECL, the xp tick will be raised)... The modification was meant to balance the gifts power given with the experience income... So from a 10 RPR, you may get more than that if you selected the humble gift (-2 ECL) and nothing else.

Here the tables to check how the ECL modifies your incoming xp by MoD and RPR

By beat tick, I am refering that moment (each 6 real minutes=1 IG hour) when you get updated your thirsty, food, rest and piety status, losing a bit of each one... If you had a RPR/RPC/RPB whatever called... Then atop those modifications you will get the xp rewarded.

[Cadarnfel]

Thanks TMotM, that helps.

It would also seem that something's amiss with my character

I opened up the game to have a look at my character.

I have a total of +2.5 ECL and The Mark of Destiny*. The character is level 3. I'm getting 10xp per interval.

I'm assuming that my RPB is either low or non-existent. If it's 10, then the ECL wiki page matches what I'm seeing per interval.

However, the RPB wiki page indicates that the MoD should give me an additional 20xp per interval.

Any ideas?

*I'm fairly sure I picked that during character creation, but the token in my inventory that I'm assuming is for the MoD is showing up as unidentified.

EDIT: so I deleted and recreated my character, making sure I selected MoD, the token is still unidentified, and I'm getting 8xp per tick (my gift selection this time came to +3ECL).

Have I got the maths completely wrong?

[The Man of the Moon]

Thanks TMotM, that helps.

It would also seem that something's amiss with my character

I opened up the game to have a look at my character.

I have a total of +2.5 ECL and The Mark of Destiny*. The character is level 3. I'm getting 10xp per interval.

I'm assuming that my RPB is either low or non-existent. If it's 10, then the ECL wiki page matches what I'm seeing per interval.

However, the RPB wiki page indicates that the MoD should give me an additional 20xp per interval.

Any ideas?

*I'm fairly sure I picked that during character creation, but the token in my inventory that I'm assuming is for the MoD is showing up as unidentified.

EDIT: so I deleted and recreated my character, making sure I selected MoD, the token is still unidentified, and I'm getting 8xp per tick (my gift selection this time came to +3ECL).

Have I got the maths completely wrong?

That means:

Currently now you have not a RPR (RolePlayRating)

The MoD is also modified by your ECL, as it is added to your RPB (in this case 20+0).

The higher level you go, the more xp you will get from your MoD tick and future RPR you may get.

You don't need to identify your gadgests...the system will deetct them anyway and apply whatever they give.

[The Man of the Moon]

Here the tables to check how the ECL modifies your incoming xp by MoD and RPR

If you go there and check the xp scored for a level 3 with 20 RPR and ECL 2.5, you got it: 10 xp per beat tick.

As you have a MoD, that means you have a RPR 20, so meaning you didn't receive yet any RPB from your RolePlay.

Once you received a 10 or 20 one, you have to check in the table of 30's or 40's to see how much you will get.

Cross your ECL rating with your current level, and there is the awarded xp.

[ChrisY]

Hey, this was not meant to say you was wrong or whatever I was just extending about Cortex's point as I agreed, nothing else.

From my point of view, everyone is free to make whatever they want if they kept a single thing:

Respect

WIth respect to everyone, the fun is granted in a place as Arelith.

I AM NEVER WRONG!! I AM THE FAVOURED OF THE DARK SUN!!!

MWAHHAHAHAH!!!

Lol, joking!!!

Of course, Morkhav, I know you are not saying that I am wrong. Because I was typing on my mobile and in between work tasks, it did not occur to me that people might misunderstand my meaning and so I put another entry to clarify haha.

[Cadarnfel]

I AM NEVER WRONG!! I AM THE FAVOURED OF THE DARK SUN!!!

Of course you aren't, except when you are

I've decided to remake my wood elf, and this time not take any gifts or the MoD - time for a vanilla build, and then see where it takes me.

[The Man of the Moon]

I AM NEVER WRONG!! I AM THE FAVOURED OF THE DARK SUN!!!

Of course you aren't, except when you are

I've decided to remake my wood elf, and this time not take any gifts or the MoD - time for a vanilla build, and then see where it takes me.

I may suggest to pick CON gift as is a very cheap and will provide you +1 fortitude savings and +1 hp per level additional by just +0.5 ECL.

But a vanilla one won't harm at all and you can still make a great build, aside you ofc can always have an extraordinary character no matter how good you built it or not as long as you keep enjoying him and making others enjoy too.