Is there still hope?

[Cortex]

Essences will block the 1d4s, and even in criticals major part of the damage will be mitigated. A MDamask or keen+other stats(saves, skills, etc) is favorable over 1d4s save for PvE, and even then...

Edit: Negative energy from weapons don't heal undead.

Edit 2: And for math sake, 3d4 averages at 7.5 damage, all of which can be mitigated.

[furryn]

You are doing it "wrong". (if wrong means your AC/AB isn't through the roof)

I made a test build the other day (for kicks and giggles) Who ended up with something along the lines of:

ab 40 +
and an AC of over 60. It's wrecked, i know (it was made in a character creation module, so i had to recalculate some of the stats for the changes on arelith.

Honestly... 60 AC in a warrior build X fighter, X wm, X rogue?
I may love to learn how and start one!

Never said it was a warrior build. But i'm pretty sure i could squeeze that pretty high, if i wanted as well.

[The Man of the Moon]

I believe keen +3d4 elememtal dmg (positive, negative and sonic) have also an advantage against creatures with DR:

The elemental dmg will be applied, while against DR the physical dmg coming from a masterly damask weapon (that +6 bonus ) will be negated... you will apply just the +4 dmg essence applied on the masterly damask, and..

anyway, the advantage of the mmasterly damask over the enchanted bronze for a level 20 fighter will be just +2 physical dmg (if we consider the bronze without the enchants)


And... the masterly damask weapon is not going to get +4 to dmg from the 20 fighter levels because that doesn't stack

[The Man of the Moon]

You are doing it "wrong". (if wrong means your AC/AB isn't through the roof)

I made a test build the other day (for kicks and giggles) Who ended up with something along the lines of:

ab 40 +
and an AC of over 60. It's wrecked, i know (it was made in a character creation module, so i had to recalculate some of the stats for the changes on arelith.

Honestly... 60 AC in a warrior build X fighter, X wm, X rogue?
I may love to learn how and start one!

Never said it was a warrior build. But i'm pretty sure i could squeeze that pretty high, if i wanted as well.

So please, do it. Let us know how.

[The Man of the Moon]

Essences will block the 1d4s, and even in criticals major part of the damage will be mitigated. A MDamask or keen+other stats(saves, skills, etc) is favorable over 1d4s save for PvE, and even then...

Edit: Negative energy from weapons don't heal undead.

Edit 2: And for math sake, 3d4 averages at 7.5 damage, all of which can be mitigated.

On a weapon master (the context of this thread) 1d4 dmg x3 (x4 if an axe, x5 if a brutal scythe) on a critical hit may be devastating.

[Without giving names]
I have a maxed out player character with a build of 19fighter/7weapon master/4rogue I believe. I

And in PvE still great as not every monster has all the elemental reductions at all.

[High Primate]

Oh yes, I forgot to add--apply a +4 essence to that masterly damask scimitar and that a consistent (+4+6+4)x3=42 damage you're putting out.

[The Man of the Moon]

MofTM, a masterly damask weapon will also get +4.

Only on AB, not for dmg as it won't stack.

A level 20 fighter using:

1. a bronze weapon with nothing else, has a +4 weapon (+4 hit/+4 dmg)

1. a masterly damask wo anything else: has a +4 hit/+6 dmg, (not a +7 hit/+10 dmg)

Oh yes, I forgot to add--apply a +4 essence to that masterly damask scimitar and that a consistent (+4+6+4)x3=42 damage you're putting out. Look:

if the masterly damask had KEEN, then I agree.

Because on a weapon master that will be a boomb...

But the why I suggested (and I did both suggestions, read bellow as seems I am saying that damask masterly were bad, while I didn't)... the why I suggested firstly the enchanted one is because the keen.

With keen, more chances to deal moer dmg where you as fighter (STR bassed) will apply aswell your STR bonus damage... and there matters if you had x2 or x3 and the range of +10% going from 12-20 or 10-20 on a rapier/scimitar.

[The Man of the Moon]

I guess I am hard to read, so much text maybe... (bold in red)

Also, regarding the last bonus fighters get...

If your last level given at level 30 was for rogue, then I might suggest to delevel and give it to fighter, so you could then get:

Any blank weapon you used, counting as +4

Any bronze Helmet AC +4
Same for armor, same for helmet.

If the last level you gave as rogue was also to use too many skill points... then delevel two levels, use the 39 as rogue and use there all tumble you need (up to 30 skill points for that +6 AC), also into umd 15 to use wands etc...

Then keep the level 30 as fighter to qualify for fighter level 20 giving the said bonus +4 to weapons and armor gear.

That might be a quite decent improvement.


Then... Look to get an entire gear enchanted with something like...(sample)

+1 STR
+1 CON
+1 Fortitude
+2 heal
+2 discipline

(just a sample... don't invest in tumble as wont give you extra AC coming from items)

About the weapon... as WM you want a bronze weapon enchanted with:

Keen
+1d4 positive
+1d4 negative
+1d4 sonic

or just keep a masterly damask weapon with a +4 essence (sonic, positive or negative the better, as in pve most resistences are not covering those dmg).

On the wands section:

Barskin: from a wand, will give you +4 AC instead from potion (+3 AC)
Improved invisibility: Gives you the 50% hide during the duration of the spell, even after your first attack and the invisibility broke.
Shield: extra +1 AC dodge that stacks with other dodging AC.

On your boots, make sure you got them enchanted also with +1 AC...

Did you took skin armor epic feat? (+2 AC)

Just some things that came to my mind.

No doubt, if you may get a kind enchanter making for you a keened masterly damask weapon, go for it by all means.

Not easy (asuming each try burns like 25,000 gp and 2,500 xp with a 5% odds to success)
Doili told me he needed onec 2 tries, while in another ocasion he recquired... 30 tries.

[KregorRanger]

The fighter bonus gives the blade an enhancement bonus of +4, which is applied to both the attack roll and the damage roll, and it does not stack with the +6 damage bonus of a masterly damask, rather it overlaps it.

So with bastard sword as an example:

Masterly damask average damage with a +4 essence is 5.5 (base avg) + 6 (dmg bonus) + 4 (essence) = 15.5 or a crit of 31.

The rainbow enchanted bronze in a lvl 20 fighter's hands will be 5.5 (base) + 4 (fighter bonus) 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 (basin elements) = 16.5 or a crit of 33.

So yes, on average, the rainbow enchanted weapon in the fighter's hands does more damage than an essenced masterly damask.

In addition, the keen property means that you double your base crit range. Thus doing your multiplier more often.

There's really no way to slice it to make say a masterly damask weapon can do more damage in the hands of a 20/7 fighter/WM.

[Cortex]

I'll just repeat that a weapon with keen, saves, skills and essence are likely to be more useful than a rainbow weapon.

[The Man of the Moon]

The fighter bonus gives the blade an enhancement bonus of +4, which is applied to both the attack roll and the damage roll, and it does not stack with the +6 damage bonus of a masterly damask, rather it overlaps it.

So with bastard sword as an example:

Masterly damask average damage with a +4 essence is 5.5 (base avg) + 6 (dmg bonus) + 4 (essence) = 15.5 or a crit of 31.

The rainbow enchanted bronze in a lvl 20 fighter's hands will be 5.5 (base) + 4 (fighter bonus) 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 (basin elements) = 16.5 or a crit of 33.

So yes, on average, the rainbow enchanted weapon in the fighter's hands does more damage than an essenced masterly damask.

In addition, the keen property means that you double your base crit range. Thus doing your multiplier more often.

There's really no way to slice it to make say a masterly damask weapon can do more damage in the hands of a 20/7 fighter/WM.

Kregor... There he is
A concise way to summarize what apparently has cost me to explain.

I <3 u man

EDIT 1:

I'll just repeat that a weapon with keen, saves, skills and essence are likely to be more useful than a rainbow weapon.

If you consider that the weapon of a warrior is his main tool... you may want to deal the maxed posible damage, but this is just my opinion.

EDIT2: Try to place anything on a masterly damask weapon with the basin, makes you deal with a 5% odd...

Try to place a second thing after 10, 20, 30 tries for the previous first enchant and burning a fortune and deleveling your enchanter friend in the try... is like a miracle.

Only things to be enchanted with more than a property are usually the blank cheap items.

[Jagel]

The short version: warriors should keep weapons with a variety of enhantments and bonuses handy for different siruations: raw damage, skills/saves/vamp regen, elemental damage for targets with mundane dr and so on.

[furryn]

for the sake of argument... (and i literally mean that: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_sake_of_argument.png)

The Rainbow weapon is going to be quite weak against anything with more than one energy resistance.

Does an MDamask weapon penetrate DR /+6 btw? Or is it the attack bonus that's the determining factor in that? or does neither count as a +x for DR pen?

Because if it does penetrate DR /+6 then that'd be a strong argument for the MDamask being the way to go.

[msterswrdsmn]

From infinite casters, to fighter adjustments, powerful 5% races, new items, better familiars,and of course gifts. Characters now are FAR more powerful than even a couple of years ago. Go back 8 years or so and the most powerful of PCs would be totally outmatched by one made today.

Some things, like the (old) raven totem are/were an absolute kick in the pants and absolutely crapped over anything remotely close to "balance" and overpowered the hell out of things. That said, the stupidly-overpowered boosts aren't terribly common.

Favored soul kinda seems somewhat questionable to balance, as bards are already great powerbuilding options, and infinite haste/buff spells goes a long way with the skill options they have. Its hardly game-breaking, but..eh.

I'm not sure what summons look like now (water elementals were tweaked, right?) and familiars can't go past level 1. Not too much of an issue there now.

Gifts aren't terribly overpowering. The stat bonuses might help some, but the penalty to leveling means that most characters are going to take a very, very long time to get to a point where 3 ECL gift character to be a threat to anyone.

When once a level 3 PC generally needed a party to head down into the kobold lair now they're good to go straight away, totally ignoring the 'starter' areas that rightly should come before it

Thats not unusual. Or even new. Its impossible to get all the way through (darn you, boss spawns!) but the first few levels? Sure. It DOES require a bit more skill and build knowledge, but its hardly impossible or unheard of.

To the OP:
How...how...33 AB? Is that...buffed? Unbuffed, right? How did you do that?
Assuming you took those rogue levels pre-epic, your BAB should be 24 at level 30. Meaning with weapon focuses (needed for WM levels) and an AB stat of say, 28 (really lowballing this) you should have an AB of at least 36 (24 base, +3 feats, +9 stats). What exactly did you do!?

To the above:
Attack bonuses or enchantment bonuses (whichever are higher) are used to penetrate DR

Its impossible to penetrate anything with a physical xxxx/+4 damage reduction unless you have access to passive class bonuses (fighter or AA) or greater magic weapon.

[furryn]

To the above:
Attack bonuses or enchantment bonuses (whichever are higher) are used to penetrate DR

Its impossible to penetrate anything with a physical xxxx/+4 damage reduction unless you have access to passive class bonuses (fighter or AA) or greater magic weapon.

Cool, been wondering that for a while

[The Man of the Moon]

for the sake of argument... (and i literally mean that: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_sake_of_argument.png)

The Rainbow weapon is going to be quite weak against anything with more than one energy resistance.

Does an MDamask weapon penetrate DR /+6 btw? Or is it the attack bonus that's the determining factor in that? or does neither count as a +x for DR pen?

Because if it does penetrate DR /+6 then that'd be a strong argument for the MDamask being the way to go.

A weapon bypass a DR/+6 when the said weapon has enhancement +6 (fighter level 30) or a bonus to hit of +6,

And don't get it if the bonus is +6 to damage. A masterly damask has a +3 to hit bonus (so bypassing X/+3, not higher, and will be overlapped by a fighter level 20 who will turn the masterly damask in a +4 hit/+6 dmg.

EDIT: Ah, ninjaed by

To the above:
Attack bonuses or enchantment bonuses (whichever are higher) are used to penetrate DR

Its impossible to penetrate anything with a physical xxxx/+4 damage reduction unless you have access to passive class bonuses (fighter or AA) or greater magic weapon.

[furryn]

for the sake of argument... (and i literally mean that: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_sake_of_argument.png)

The Rainbow weapon is going to be quite weak against anything with more than one energy resistance.

Does an MDamask weapon penetrate DR /+6 btw? Or is it the attack bonus that's the determining factor in that? or does neither count as a +x for DR pen?

Because if it does penetrate DR /+6 then that'd be a strong argument for the MDamask being the way to go.

A weapon bypass a DR/+6 when the said weapon has enhancement +6 (fighter level 30) or a bonus to hit of +6,

And don't get it if the bonus is +6 to damage. A masterly damask has a +3 to hit bonus (so bypassing X/+3, not higher, and will be overlapped by a fighter level 20 who will turn the masterly damask in a +4 hit/+6 dmg.

I get the +x eg. GMW at CL 20 is +5 and overcomes 20/+5

What i was wondering, was whether Attack bonus or Damage Bonus counted as the +x on weapons on arelith. But msterswrdsmn answered it perfectly

[The Man of the Moon]

This is what makes grandeur a fighter level 30.

He will have weapons +6... armor gear +6... And everything with enchanted abilities, savings and skills...

No other class can be as finely equiped as a high level fighter can.

And Fighters level 30 can deal all their damage bypasing dragons DR and mage's premonitions.

Superb

____________________

In doubt, if one may don't know how to make a good warrior build, I may suggest: go pure fighter. The mistakes will be small.

High STR... High CON, go for DR epic feats and improving the saving throws, within the traditional feats to deal more damage and get better AB and you won't be wrong!

EDIT: As lorkas commented me... high caster spells aside... the one who can puwn a pure fighter may be a weapon master...

This is why when making a warrior, I love to invest at least 5 levels as weapon master (for those deadly critical strikes)... (and RP makes sense that most of warriors were looking for the excellence and devastation of their attacks, just keep including emotes to show you are a dedicated warrior... keep care on your weapons, love your weapons... and ... keep clean your weapons.

[Arther Goodmane]

First of all, Irongron, as a game designer I think I know what you mean. I didn't even consider that honestly, I used to go blissfully oblivious to all the update changes. I was so used to seeing minor improvements such as "Hey look, you can now choose a BACKGROUND. Get +1 Discipline, but -1 Tumble". I never thought the server would actually do something that would give new characters any actual advantage. Well, it is with egg on my face that I now eat my humble pie.

I did take my last level on fighter by the way.

ANYWAY, I promised to do some research and let you guys know what my stats are and here they are!

Character sheet of Sarah Goodmane.
[Attributes]
STR: 26
DEX: 14
CONST: 24
INT: 14
WISDOM: 10
CHAR: 10

Armor Count: 38 (43/48 with [improved]expertise)
AB: 30/25/20/15
Dmg (Greensteel Katana) 1-10 + 14 (Crit 13-20/X3)
Dmg (Damask/Masterly Damask Katana, can't recall and no way to find out) 1-10 + 14 (Crit 15-20/X3)

Fort: 26
Reflex: 18
Will: 11
Base Attack: 24
Spell Resistance: 0

[Feats]
Armor Skin, Blind Fight, Cleave, Epic Fortitude, Epic Weapon focus + Epic Weapon Specialization in Katana, Improved Critical in katana, Improved Expertise, Improved Knockdown, Great Strength +1, Toughness. Pluss all the feats necessary to get Weapon master, including Evasion and such.

[Skills]
Concentration: 35
Discipline: 40
Tumble: 14 (I spent 30 points in it though o.O)
Use Magic Device: 20

[Items]
(Masterly)Damask katana (+4 Positive, +6 Slash, AB+3)
Greensteel katana (+4 Fire, AB+3, Keen)
Adamantine Armour (AC+3, Negative energy resist 5)
Adamantine helmet(AC +3, Negative energy resist 5)
Mithril Tower shield(AC+2)
Belt+Rings+Gloves+Necklace+Boots+Cape(+1 STR, +1CONST)

Look upon my stats and weep/laugh/cry! (Whichever you prefer)

[The Man of the Moon]

In a fast view... this is what I see... (In red what you needed to do/avoid in the past, in green what you may do now to currently improve your character)

First of all, Irongron, as a game designer I think I know what you mean. I didn't even consider that honestly, I used to go blissfully oblivious to all the update changes. I was so used to seeing minor improvements such as "Hey look, you can now choose a BACKGROUND. Get +1 Discipline, but -1 Tumble". I never thought the server would actually do something that would give new characters any actual advantage. Well, it is with egg on my face that I now eat my humble pie.

I did take my last level on fighter by the way.

ANYWAY, I promised to do some research and let you guys know what my stats are and here they are!

Character sheet of Sarah Goodmane.
[Attributes]
STR: 26
DEX: 14 DEX 13 to gualify for wm ercquirements was enough
CONST: 24
INT: 14
WISDOM: 10
CHAR: 10

Armor Count: 38 (43/48 with [improved]expertise)
AB: 30/25/20/15
Dmg (Greensteel Katana) 1-10 + 14 (Crit 13-20/X3)
Dmg (Damask/Masterly Damask Katana, can't recall and no way to find out) 1-10 + 14 (Crit 15-20/X3)

Fort: 26
Reflex: 18
Will: 11 For the Arelith standards... low, you might invest feats to raise it.
Base Attack: 24
Spell Resistance: 0

[Feats]
Armor Skin, Blind Fight, Cleave, Epic Fortitude, Epic Weapon focus + Epic Weapon Specialization in Katana, Improved Critical in katana, Improved Expertise, Improved Knockdown, Great Strength +1, Toughness. Pluss all the feats necessary to get Weapon master, including Evasion and such.
For katana you needed Exotic weapon (a feat used on this is a big deal when one does a wm. I may suggest scimitar/rapier next time for optimization (unless katana was a must for your RP concept, ofc)

Missing aswell:
Armor Skin (+2 AC)
Epic Weapon Focus: Your chosen weapon (+2 AB)

[Skills]
Concentration: 35
Discipline: 40
Tumble: 14 (I spent 30 points in it though o.O)
Use Magic Device: 20 I think 15 was enough to use wands, your main focus.

[Items]
(Masterly)Damask katana (+4 Positive, +6 Slash, AB+3)
Greensteel katana (+4 Fire, AB+3, Keen)
Adamantine Armour (AC+3, Negative energy resist 5) Note 1
Adamantine helmet(AC +3, Negative energy resist 5) Note 1
Mithril Tower shield(AC+2) Note 1
Belt+Rings+Gloves+Necklace+Boots+Cape(+1 STR, +1CONST) Note 2

Look upon my stats and weep/laugh/cry! (Whichever you prefer)

NOTES:
1. Replace (sell those) and get bronze (you will get the +3 bonus from your current fighter levels)
Enchant your bronze armor, helmet and shield with:
+1 SRT, +1 CON, +2 dic, +2 heal+, +1 will saves (perhaps)

2. Hire the epic enchanter to get (on your rings, belt, amulet, bracers and cloack):
+1 STR
+1 CON
+2 Discipline
+2 heal
+1 Will savings

And this in your boots:
+1 STR
+1 CON
+1 AC

_____________________
From your gear enhancement you may get additional:

+3 STR (So +1/2 dmg and more weight carry capability)
+3 CON (So +1/2 fortitude; + 30/60 extra hp)
+ 18 Discipline (higher resist against enemies kickdowns)
+ 18 Heal (better combat heals when using your bandages)
+ 9 Will savings (chance to don't ran in panic the many times one gets suddenly stroke by a fear or mind spell without a clearity spell on)

+1 AC (From your boots)

Keep gettign the following wands:
* Clearity (for fears)
* Barskin (to get +4 AC, long duration ward)
* Improved invisibility (to get more AC, first advantage on tactical aproach to combat or evasion and 50% hide during fight)
* Haste (To get +4 AC, more speed and 1 extra attack on max. AB)
* Consider Darkness wands for mess times, to avoid fatal death, using that to attack, to heal...to evade/reetreat)...
* Shield (+1 AC additional, of dodging that can survive the overlap of the whole others AC bonified by this spell)


This is a fast look... But might get better with (maybe) deleveling three or four levels and trying to fix things, but that will absolutely depend on which classes did you select in those last three before the last one as warrior.

[The Man of the Moon]

I may advice as someone already did...

Time to start the history of your uncle, nephew, childre... a new character who may be heir to your current one so you may keep a piece of its spirit...

Then we can provide you one thousand builds/plantiffs optimiced so you could follow relaxed each step for your favourite build...

or...

Just give up and keep enjoying your RP, knowing that time to time some powerbuild will make you bit the dust. (And this is not nice IC, but not bad IG if you keep enjoying your RP)

[rat0a]

The new masterly damask with the Keen is called greensteel with 20 fighter levels is cheap and is close to the MD enchanted keened one, and of course you need those 7 WM master levels


Guys let's not derail this thread with Power Building Toons, Rebalancing eviroments and so on

the OP have a concern with his old PC toon that he/she still enjoys to play with, maybe he/she can salvage his character by rebuilding a few levels if the poster took those rouge levels at epic and with the new Fighter Perk and some bronze enchanted gear the toon might no be the perfect Fighter but at least a competitive one.

I'm assuming she is wearing power mods enchanted gear all over

Hit me on PM or IG if you can

EDIT
Ops! he posted the character sheet Above

Time to get enchanted Bronze Armor, helm and shield

Don't worry about WILL that much that's what Clarity potion are there for

If you like your toon that much I will suggest to get rid of one Rouge level if is doable, and have a total of 20 Fighters levels you will get 4AC on the Armor, Shield and helm with Bronze enchanted, question is do you know when you took the Rouge levels?

I still have some deficiencies with my PRE Gift era Character but I won't go PRE Epic levels to fix that because one I rarely do PVP and two she does her part at PVE in a party

[Shadowy Reality]

STR: 26

Base Attack: 24

[Feats]
Armor Skin, Blind Fight, Cleave, Epic Fortitude, Epic Weapon focus + Epic Weapon Specialization in Katana, Improved Critical in katana, Improved Expertise, Improved Knockdown, Great Strength +1, Toughness. Pluss all the feats necessary to get Weapon master, including Evasion and such.

I don't know how your AB is so low. Assuming those 26 Str are already with enchanted gear you should have:

24 (base) + 8 (Str Mod) + 3 (Weapon Enchant) + 1 (Weapon Focus) + 2 (Epic Weapon Focus) + 1 (Weapon Master) = 39 not 30

If you just drink a Bull's Strength Potion you can go up to 41. If most of you gear doesn't have +Str in it you can get it up by another 4 points or so. Which is pretty much the standard AB for a full BAB classes, I see nothing inherently wrong with your character.

[rat0a]

I believe is low because the player invested her atributes in CON, INT and DEX

WM only needs 13 INT and DEX

If the player toon is on heavy armor the DEX bonus is wasted

[Arther Goodmane]

I'm using "pretty good character creator" by the way, if anyone wants to have a look at it.

It turns out all I have to do is loose 4 levels and then acquire Epic prowess+Armor Skin+Great Cleave+Epic skill focus in Discipline, as well as max out my Concentration+Discipline skills (not saying these feats are necessary, just they seemed to be the only relevant feats available at the time).

Somehow, I ended up with an attack bonus of 39 (compared to my current 30). This is all in PGCC though.

Lastly, since I take +10 discipline in Epic skill focus, how realistic is it to get +1 Str, +1 Con and +1/2 AC (instead of the +2 Discipline) from all my gear items, including shield, armor and helmet?

I feel like this is a blessing in disguise though, because now I have renewed interest in my character AND I also have an IG story I want to pursue, to explain my toon's 4 level drop.

Lastly, as rat0a pointed out, I am not interested in making a boss character. Just someone who doesn't break like wet tissue paper, everytime someone with a decent build even farts at my toon. But thanks anyway Man on the moon, I do appreciate the offer.