Why do you *still* play NWN?

[doublesix]

Are you asking why we play NWN or on Arelith, or multi-NWN? And I agree with Scurvy ... NWN2 was clunky, the magic stats were underwhelming and ... the community nowhere near as awesome as Arelith.

My answer, on the nwn vs nwn2 is the same as everyone else's, nwn2 sucks, the GUI (should have stuck to the F-shift/control-key control method for actions, it was quick and easy to use on nwn1, why change it?), the combat mechanics, the camera (every damn object taller than the char obstructs the view all the time), the dumb system for login and looooong downloads of modules, everything. Tried it for about 4 months on an rp-PW spawned from Another Place™.

The community never raised because the game sucked from day one and the many patches didn't solve the main issues.

2. If you are asking why I still play Arelith after 7 years of being here ... others have said it better but Arelith is the best PnP-type game I can play from my own home with people I enjoy playing with. To me, its hard to find a group of D&D players you knit with, especially when you're an old fart like me. I love the community here.

I started playing NWN online at Another Place™, in 2005 the Iron Anvil clan was formed, when in 2008 That Place™ begun to look like a DM railroad (plus they screwed with all classes, spellcasting, crafting, plugins), Tsien (Gorann "Scar" Bloodletter) told me about Arelith and dragged me here instead of stopping playing NWN.

I like most of Arelith, the simplicity of the crafting system for example.

And I dislike a few things... like how the enchanted gear (and familiars) makes rogue skills almost worthless, very few traps or locks (almost none) stop anyone from advancing in a dungeon or looting it's chests, so nobody bothers calling an expert before adventuring. Add on top of that the hordes of inmune to sneak attack enemies... that makes your contribution as a rogue decrease greatly, with specialist skills that aren't needed and damage output ridiculed. So... might as well make another fighter/rogue(or bard)/wm

The lack of subdual mode, the farming nature of all areas...

But, overall, is the best server I've seen.

[Cuchilla]

You just don't leave good old friends, do you?

And besides, I am afraid, I'd be watching telly instead. And THAT would really be dreadful.

[FW DarkArcher]

I have been playing NWN since it came out. I was like, 6 at the time. I don't have it in me to give it up. I mean, sure I take breaks from it every now and then, but I always go back to playing it at some point. This game pretty much sums up my life from the ages of 6 to 17. Love it.

[IndifferentPerson]

So, uh, I tried this one RP game, and gaijsdfauhgisd, the amount of ((OOC)) chat was staggering, Arelith spoiled me with its no public OOC chat rule and it's an immense buzz kill for me now.

[What_Evil_Lurks]

Arelith is the reason. The players here. The active DMs. The active DEVs. Immersion here is great. And that it takes a 5% roll to have stupid dragon wings.

[Dinosaur Space Program]

Mechanically (while there are definitely hiccups...) Arelith is a world above its competitors. It isn't stagnant, there are little and large changes being done all the time. It gives a platform to explore a character arc when you want to get away from a more stable/planned Rp experience like PnP. While the NWN1 engine is an antique at this point, it still does work and mechanically allows enough options and builds to keep the PvE experience fresh no matter how many characters I foof around on.

For the most part, the DM/Dev team is unbiased (though occasionally a stinker will sneak in to gum up the works) and allows me to have some faith in the rulings from on high which is important in a long running stable system. We have our problem child players as well that do mechanical exploits to win at the penalty of the entire community, but, for all of that Arelith Works. It is a large enough community that you can get away from people who metagame or have severe OOC/IC line issues. There is a niche for Everyone to find their fun in. We aren't forced to play with Everyone but we Can if we want to. There is room for that and it keeps expanding.

Arelith is as close to an immersive RP freedom as I think is possible at this time and the time its been running. I have donated in the past due to my appreciation of the fact that this server isn't made for Us. It isn't tooled to fulfill the expectations and needs of the player. No, this server is built to be a Stable Entity in which players can pursue their own stories. That's why it is still running. And that is why it will Continue to run for probably some time.

[Morderon]

1. RP, story, & Persistent world. All three are within the top spot because they all go hand in hand with each other. No other game does it like NWNs can. Players work with other players to create compelling stories. And those stories may have an effect on the world. DMs create events for the whole world but can also just make an adventure more exciting for a small group of players. As well, the ability for the DMs/Devs to say 'No' to people ensures a certain level of quality (Yes, i know it's better to hope they come along, but no one wants a half-orc running about and repeatedly killing characters for little reason).

2. The toolset. Allows people to craft stories/modules for other people. Easy to use and extremely feature rich compared to what else is out there. If I want to play another story/module either in solo or a small group all it takes is a download of a module and possibly some haks.

Should be noted Divinity: Original SIn also has a toolset. And I think Shadowrun Returns does too. I can't compare their features with NWN or talk of it's ease of use. If people create modules for it I can see myself playing Divinity: Original Sin at least every few months, depending on quality, in part thanks to it's multiplayer capabilities as well.

NWN's capability to have persistent world, mixed with Divinity: Original Sin's gameplay, with a touch of shadowrun returns and acknowledgement that it's going to be used in a heavy mutliplayer setting. Throw in the capability to support multiple rulesets and that would be like the perfect game.

[Urch]

Because NWN is the best roleplaying sandbox ever created.

[Kooshy]

I don't know that the enforcement issue is that hard to solve - it sounds like we're thinking about it too centrally. Arelith cultivated a strong RP culture because that's what our community wanted. Other communities had different needs and cultivated different cultures..

The real strength of NWN is that it gave communities (and individuals) the tools to make effectively their own games, and since the community takes ownership of its own experience, the enforcement follows naturally.

Trying to build the end-all be-all roleplaying game is a neat idea..but building a toolbox that lets people customize their experience, that's approachable by the same level of user who is the game's target audience, and that can scale up to community-size..I think that should be the target. Unfortunately, every project I've come across has utterly failed at at least one of those...except NWN.

And that's why I still play - it's the only thing that's gotten it right.

..But sometimes I wonder if it's time for something new to do the same thing only better. It would be hard, and there might be intellectual property issues (as NWN was a licensed D20 game and the new thing probably wouldn't be - though I haven't read the open source article linked above and it may not be an issue.)

NWN has shown that there was a market for that sort of thing at one time..and the fact that people still play at least suggests that it's not entirely gone.

[Twily]

I agree entirely with what most people are saying, and especially what you said Kooshy.

There is a demand for good roleplaying games that have the more classic feel to it(such as Baulder's Gate and NWN1) instead of the WoW like set up that seems to be in most games now.

While this game may not be perfect as far as an RP enviorement goes, Pillars of Eternity is a great example that shows people like the classic feel. They got over 3 million dollars, for a promise. (btw, that game comes out this march!) My fingers are crossed that this game lives up to the expectations.

[Scimiter]

The answer is really simple. No modern/paid games currently out there have any IG accountability to stay IC. Add to that the people that actively work against people trying to RP and the argument becomes complete for players like us.

Immersion is our life blood and only servers like Arelith/Amia that actively enforce it and protect us by weeding out bad players allow us to indulge what gives us a reason to keep coming back. Because of that WE interact with the world and create our own stories. Supported by a dedicated DM/DEV team that watches our stories, create extended plot arcs based on those stories and then adjusts the world around us to fit those stories.

I say all this returning after a long time away trying to get by playing Neverwinter, WoW and guildwars and you know what I have to say after banging my head against the wall of RP ignorance out there?

There's No place like home

[SwampFoot]

The main trouble I see with modern MMORPGs is money. The developers want to keep it flowing and offer purchasable upgrades to those that will pay for them. They run all the servers rather than allowing the players to create their own so they can keep the money flowing. This leads to thousands of players with differing views on how the game should be played to blend together creating an almost hostile environment for those players seeking a Role Play experience rather than an "OMG! Look what I just bought! I'm so UBER!" experience.

[P Three]

There's No place like home

Told you.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

I want a 2D top-down game with the same type of environment and customizability as NWN.

Dev/DM password/ client with password to servers being hosted that give drag and drop/command line capabilities.

D20 System so the classes are all the same.

Potentially more options to customize the character without the limitations of NWN and its outdated models, ironically.

Smoother gameplay (maybe and probably) / less resource intensive because it's 2D, and more stuff can be made to explore and more put into the game because of it.

Crafting system could be upgraded to be able to make entire houses possibly. But it'd need to be roleplayed IG a lot because you're going to be taking up room on the server. ALong with everything else you can make in Arelith. And that's a ton of stuff.

NWN inventory system because I can't stand anything that gives me less now like Runescape. I kept trying to pick up more bones in old-school runescape and was sad when I realized I could only carry like ten because I was out of space.

All of that coupled with the roleplay environment of Arelith would be pretty swell.

[Marsi]

NWN inventory system because I can't stand anything that gives me less now like Runescape. I kept trying to pick up more bones in old-school runescape and was sad when I realized I could only carry like ten because I was out of space.

I went to check out old school runescape just then to see how it was going and WHY DID THEY PUT IN THE GRAND XCHANGE AHHHHH

[Black Wendigo]

What's really sad is how the term RPG has be corrupted and twisted by game makers. A lot of so called RPGS are just shooters with RPG elements like a story or similar leveling system as an rpg. This has been going on for a very long time. I first noticed this trend when Diablo came out. It was a great game but people were calling it a role playing game. Really. It's been downhill ever since.

I get the feeling that some of our younger players now think that modern MMOG's aer actually what role playing is all about.

This is why I like comming back to Arelith. People here understand what RPG really means. THe day someone comes out with an RPG multiplayer game that is actualy a RPG is the day I'll try one. Otherwise I'm done with 99% of online games.

[Scimiter]

There's No place like home

Told you.

Hush you

[Kreydis]

Because my computer can't handle Shogun II, and I'm slightly to lazy to get a Mud program downloaded.

[Morderon]

What's really sad is how the term RPG has be corrupted and twisted by game makers. A lot of so called RPGS are just shooters with RPG elements like a story or similar leveling system as an rpg. This has been going on for a very long time. I first noticed this trend when Diablo came out. It was a great game but people were calling it a role playing game. Really. It's been downhill ever since.

I get the feeling that some of our younger players now think that modern MMOG's aer actually what role playing is all about.

This is why I like comming back to Arelith. People here understand what RPG really means. THe day someone comes out with an RPG multiplayer game that is actualy a RPG is the day I'll try one. Otherwise I'm done with 99% of online games.

To be fair, RPG is a pretty vague gameplay category. When it probably shouldn't be used to describe gameplay at all

My first RPG's would of been Final Fantasy 3 I think it was.. and the SNES Legend of Zelda. I would claim diablo as much as an RPG as Zelda is, if not more so. But would I put them on the level of NWN, The Witcher or Baldur's Gate? Nope.

To put RPGs on a sliding scale to the left you would have:

Story-Driven: These are games where the story is significant to the experience and unraveled during gameplay. However features little to non character customization and no significant way to impact the storyline. If it doesn't at least feature this it's not an RPG IMO.

Then you add stuff such as character(s) customization or the ability to create your own. Each character having a somewhat different play style. Typically fantasy or sci-fi. Multiple ways to solve problems/puzzles. Characters decisions have, significant, impact on storyline. Multiple storylines. Immersion techniques. And you approach what I'm going to call the "True RPG"

[Sab1]

Best D&D based video game (single player and multiplayer) out there. If this was a server where you logged on, killed things, leveled, and logged off, it wouldn't still be here.
But that's not the case, the server is as non-linear as the community that plays it.

Still think the original Bauldur's gate will always be my favorite. Also the thing I liked about NWN was how adaptable it was, the community could get together to make the game better, serves could make a hak pak if they wished to customize things. So the game could still evolve. Also meant that every server was different.