Map in old English (Old Common)

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:27 pm

Hello...

EDITED: After deliberies and thoughs (apologies by the many typos here), I decided to go with Old English in most of the map. I may add some aquares with the traslation to every name in the margins outframe if the space were high enough.

here a question jumping on my mind now that I am starting the final draw of the map of Arelith...

Should I use the Romanic Old latin as main languaje in the map for everything?

or

Do you prefer to be allowed to read in their original names at least the settlements and some other places, so the latin were limitated to certain things?

I ask because I am unsure most of people may enjoy names not familiar to them in the map... Making it maybe something strange...

opinions?

(If I ask is because this is not a trouble for me do it in one or other way, but I want to do something that may like a majority than rather a few or just me)

Post by **Mithreas** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:20 pm

Latin doesn't have the same feel in FR. Olde English and a fancy font is probably the best call?

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:27 pm

Mithreas wrote:Latin doesn't have the same feel in FR. Olde English and a fancy font is probably the best call?

Roger

Will investigate then to see how certain words and sentences may be written in old English.

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:01 pm

So some samples as I am taking a look...

Forest of Despair may be

Wénan Weald

Red Dragon island

Réod Dracaníeg

Trackless Sea

Wegléast Brim

The Peak

Héatorr

Minmir lake

Minmere

Pax Cordoria

Cordor griðlage as pax Cordoria is latin, I may use both, old English and latin in some cases as this one

EternalSunrise · Post by **EternalSunrise** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:21 pm

Nobody's going to know what the hell those are, if you put them like that.

ZogTheStout · Post by **ZogTheStout** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:34 pm

EternalSunrise wrote:Nobody's going to know what the hell those are, if you put them like that.

Con:^ this.

Pro: they look and sound amazing. Except Pax Cordoria, because its derived from 'Pax Romana' which is a strictly Latin concept. The simple approach would be to translate it from 'Cordorian Peace' (which is what 'Pax Cordoria' means). Or you could translate 'Realm of Cordor', 'Lands of Cordor', or such.

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:47 pm

ZogTheStout wrote:
EternalSunrise wrote:Nobody's going to know what the hell those are, if you put them like that.
Con:^ this.

Pro: they look and sound amazing. Except Pax Cordoria, because its derived from 'Pax Romana' which is a strictly Latin concept. The simple approach would be to translate it from 'Cordorian Peace' (which is what 'Pax Cordoria' means). Or you could translate 'Realm of Cordor', 'Lands of Cordor', or such.

As latin was accepted as loross in FR, to use it... (i know what pax means)... I see no problem about use the sentence "Pax Cordoria" as analogy to the Pax Romana... And as my first intend was to use latin...

But,

as the idea is let everyone understanding what the hell means each name...

and as I want that everyone may identify and feel like own that map...

I may use a distirted or fake "Old English" to make it look more like modern English... Something intermediate.

So:

Forest of Dispair

Weald òd Duspáiru

Trackless Sea

Losta Mére

Red Dragon Island

Rud Dracaníeg

... Or maybe even more slightly touches...

Forét ad Dispair This is understandable enough I guess...

Reòd Dracan Islae
...

Seven Sons of Sin · Post by **Seven Sons of Sin** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:06 pm

I've never at all understood why Pax Cordoria is a thing. If it's based off of "Pax Romana", as Zog states, it's horribly misinterpreted - or inaccurate?

The Pax Romana refers to a period of peace and stability in the Roman Empire following the death of Marc Anthony and Cleopatra, and the ascension of Octavius into Augustus.

It does not refer to a territory, boundary or political structure, which is how "Pax Cordoria" is being used. It should just be called "Cordoria."

ZogTheStout · Post by **ZogTheStout** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:33 pm

I think, Seven, it's used as an analogy to the concept of it being illegal for a Roman to cross into the area of Rome itself in arms and especially in military uniform (hence Caesar's 'crossing the rubicon' being so drastic, it was the declaration of war because he led a legion in arms wearing military red into the area of Rome itself). The translation of Pax Romana to Pax Cordoria might not be exact, but conceptually it refers to something which existed (an enforced peace around the central city) and it does work.

And Man of the Moon - I've no issue with 'Pax Cordoria' being used, I just think if you're translating to Saxon or Old English, you should translate 'Cordorian Peace', rather than 'Pax Cordoria'.

Also, Wénan Weald sounds incredible, Forét ad Dispair and Weald ód Duspáir are flat. Stick with your original translations

Anime Sword Fighter · Post by **Anime Sword Fighter** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:35 pm

if you do things in Latin give me all your things so I can make sure everything is right unless you too are a Latin scholar then o/

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:56 pm

I could do this...

1. Keep that sort of Old English for non settlements...

2. But keep in Common (Modern English) for settlments (as anyway may be too much try to translate them from fantasy names (some) into supussed Old English).

I wanted to use some "hic sunt draconis" referred to those wild lands inhabited by monsters (and in our situation, by real dragons), Mare Inuia (Trackless Sea) etc... But well...

Also the map is meant to include some hiden riddle... (hint!), and I expected to use latin for it... I will have to sort it since obviously I may do a little disaster trying to writte them in Old English

Not to mention I am already a disaster with Modern English (as I usually use translators and correctors before post something meant to be a bit serious)... But well... Fantasy license!

Seven Sons of Sin · Post by **Seven Sons of Sin** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:33 pm

ZogTheStout wrote:I think, Seven, it's used as an analogy to the concept of it being illegal for a Roman to cross into the area of Rome itself in arms and especially in military uniform (hence Caesar's 'crossing the rubicon' being so drastic, it was the declaration of war because he led a legion in arms wearing military red into the area of Rome itself. The translation of Pax Romana to Pax Cordoria might not be exact, but conceptually it refers to something which existed (an enforced peace around the central city) and it does work.

Ah, I guess that makes more sense! This only makes me more curious as to why Pax Cordoria came into being. Was there an Arelithian Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon?

Who knows, I guess.

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:36 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
ZogTheStout wrote:I think, Seven, it's used as an analogy to the concept of it being illegal for a Roman to cross into the area of Rome itself in arms and especially in military uniform (hence Caesar's 'crossing the rubicon' being so drastic, it was the declaration of war because he led a legion in arms wearing military red into the area of Rome itself. The translation of Pax Romana to Pax Cordoria might not be exact, but conceptually it refers to something which existed (an enforced peace around the central city) and it does work.

Ah, I guess that makes more sense! This only makes me more curious as to why Pax Cordoria came into being. Was there an Arelithian Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon?

Who knows, I guess.

Vetinari

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:52 am

Coreybush11 wrote:if you do things in Latin give me all your things so I can make sure everything is right unless you too are a Latin scholar then o/

Thank you! I am not at all a latin expert, so if I was to include latin sentences and geographic names, will send them to you first so you may fix any typos and mistakes.

Kudos to you

And thanks everyone for your opinions. Really helpful to figure how to do.

Urch · Post by **Urch** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:19 am

Old English is fascinating to me. The language seem so mystical and fantastical, yet still familiar in feeling.

If you aren't aware, I'd recommend googling Bosworth Toller Anglo Saxon Lexicon as a good resource for words and meanings.

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:02 pm

Urch wrote:Old English is fascinating to me. The language seem so mystical and fantastical, yet still familiar in feeling.

If you aren't aware, I'd recommend googling Bosworth Toller Anglo Saxon Lexicon as a good resource for words and meanings.

Perfect then. Will keep my last plan using Old English but for settlements, where will keep them in Modern as I may don't find good traslations to certain names and to keep people recognicing at least the most important locations.

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:53 am

EternalSunrise wrote:Nobody's going to know what the hell those are, if you put them like that.

I will add a square with the translations from Old English to modern English in a margin of the map, in small size text, to allow to know what the hell some of those may be meaning

That will match also with many old maps, that include many text windows.

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:57 am

(Notes for my own, to keep track once at home

)

Gambler's Bluff

Taeflere Blúf
Myart Shrine

Myárt Hálgung
Bloodmoon Hills

Blódmóna Geswyru
Orc Caves

Urc Gráfu
Trolls Caves

Trow Denn
Kobold hills

Koblynaw Geswéoru
Crystal Caves

Cristallaydenn
South Sloppes

Sud Stéape
Barrows

Hlaew
Hide cave

Hýdew
Whartown Boys Hideout

Phéofdeen
Pax Cordoria ("Peace of Cordor" Referred as the domains surround to the Protection and Laws of Cordor, granting a peace age)

Cordor éadnesse
Sanctuary

Hálingdóm
Bitter Coast

Sárige stæþ
Viper temple

Vipere hearg
Sencliff

Siécleof
Brogendenstein

Brongandstán
Cordor

Linebuhr may be a shape, but I will keep Cordor.
Soulhaven

Sáwlehæfen
Wharftown

Hwéarfburh
Umbrick's Halls

UmbrickHealle
Nexus Falls

Cnotta fealþ
Unknown lands

Ungecnáwen landes
The grove

Bearu (Grove Wood)
Shallow Wood

Sceald Weald

Rattus_norvegicus99 · Post by **Rattus_norvegicus99** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:07 am

Old English really is a language unto itself and that said, those of us without English Lit degrees are not likely to be able to read it. That said, Arelith is standard US English (ducks the Brit's throwing scones).

The Man of the Moon · Post by **The Man of the Moon** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:45 am

Rattus_norvegicus99 wrote:Old English really is a language unto itself and that said, those of us without English Lit degrees are not likely to be able to read it. That said, Arelith is standard US English (ducks the Brit's throwing scones).

I though nobody could be able to read it

The Man of the Moon wrote:
EternalSunrise wrote:Nobody's going to know what the hell those are, if you put them like that.
I will add a square with the translations from Old English to modern English in a margin of the map, in small size text, to allow to know what the hell some of those may be meaning

That will match also with many old maps, that include many text windows.

I will keep it this way, Old English.

And why?

Because I want to capture the feeling, flavour and magic of ancient maps.

Lorkas · Post by **Lorkas** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:53 pm

Yea, as far as I know English Literature courses of study don't typically include a lot of Anglo-Saxon (of course, this varies from university to university). I took one course (History of the English Language) that required learning some features of Old English texts, but I don't think any other EngLit courses at my university included anything from that period that wasn't being read in translation anyway.

It's awesome to have it in Old Common though. Very flavorful.

DeamonHeart · Post by **DeamonHeart** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:38 pm

I support the map, I think it is a great idea, English Lit majors aside, as well as nay sayers who are to lazy to research on their own. *grins* Stands defiantly against the stones tossed.

It is -Your pet project- it is done your way. You are making exceptions for all these .. Lessers.. I support even though I do not understand why. *nods*

Arelith

Arelith

Map in old English (Old Common)

Map in old English (Old Common)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in English (Common) or Old latin (Loross)

Re: Map in old English (Old Common)

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Re: Map in old English (Old Common)