Beamdog HQ on each new patch

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Nitro
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Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Nitro » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:55 pm

https://imgur.com/a/6HaxIUb

RIP my loading times.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Tarkus the dog » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:11 am

I can't open my server browser, lol!

Basementfellow
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Basementfellow » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:49 pm

thank you beamdog, very cool
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Hazard
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Hazard » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:54 pm

are we haks yet?

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Peppermint
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Peppermint » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:15 am

Still just waiting on -disguise.

I think we had that promised, what? Two patches ago?

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Covex
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Covex » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:31 am

Adding those video options are stupid DOF etc

This game is old all we wanted was updates to fix the game

Dev "Hey Dev 2"

Dev 2 "Yeeh?"

Dev "What if we add depth of field into the game?"

Dev 2 "Why would you want that in this old game?"

Dev "Oh you know it's 2018 and all the games have them"

Dev "You see I don't care if we break it even more let's wait for a year to fix it and mybe make a mobile version"
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Peppermint
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Peppermint » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:33 am


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Liareth
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Liareth » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:17 pm

Peppermint wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:15 am
Still just waiting on -disguise.

I think we had that promised, what? Two patches ago?
This has nothing to do with BD. It has to do with me. I do not work for BD. I didn't promise anything. I said that I had implemented a new scripting command that would probably make it into the next game patch. For several reasons, the chief amongst which are time constraints and laziness, it hasn't made it in yet. In retrospect I shouldn't have offered to help at all. Also, this is something that the Arelith team can do themselves without any changes to the base game. They just haven't yet. If you want disguise to work, you need to bug them to make it work.

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Royal Blood
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Royal Blood » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:38 pm

I can totally feel some of the comments here. I think both BD and Arelith would benefit from focusing on fully developing features they already have implemented as opposed to adding new content, though the ability now to use Haks is a MAJOR ball and chain released I think.

But keep in mind atleast on Arelith the team is all volunteers. It's not realistic to hold then to the same standards as paid developers not because they lack skill but because they don't have time like paid developers do, all of this is a favor.

I saw Irongrons mention that the dev team just focuses on the projects they want? I don't think that is productive even if the team is volunteers just because it'll make development kind of random and maybe things that should be updated or fixed will remain long over due for change because no one wants to touch it.

For Beamdog though, for sure I am not certain where they get their feedback or why they pursued some of the things they did. From the outside it looks so obvious like yeah depth perception... Wat.

Atleast the opportunity for things to be better is there where as before the ability to develop things had been stagnated by a super old game.
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Play a part in the story you tell too.

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naturaly
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by naturaly » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:45 pm

I agree we should get the broken systems working before adding new content.

Halibutthead
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Halibutthead » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:20 am

Liareth wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:17 pm

This has nothing to do with BD. It has to do with me.
shh... keep calm and blame beamdog. we love you liareth

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Peppermint
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Peppermint » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:54 am

Liareth wrote:This has nothing to do with BD. It has to do with me. ...
I suppose I'm just confused now. I wasn't blaming you. We have this post from a couple months ago:
Liareth 10 Aug 2018 wrote:I've submitted a change to make SetName() work on PCs. It will probably be in the next game patch. After that, it's up to the Arelith developers to hook it up and make it work.
No word on changes since then. You mentioned the change had been 'submitted', which suggested to me it was then on Beamdog's end. Now you're saying it's not; it's on yours.

Regardless.

In the meantime, I don't think there's anything practical Arelith developers can do. They're not professional programmers; they're talented amateurs, none of which possess the knowledge to update NwNX plugins.

Is there some easier solution I'm missing? Please don't say 'bug Beamdog'. We've already done that. Heck, it was already mentioned in a stream a couple months ago, for goodness' sake.

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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Xerah » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:18 am

naturaly wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:45 pm
I agree we should get the broken systems working before adding new content.
Sorry, this is always something that bothers me. Or comments that people say "LOL they fixed X but Y has been broke longer LOL".

Looking at development like this is a constantly huge issue that is offputting to those involved. I personally can't do a thing to help these broken systems. I don't have the skills to do so. Should I (all of us?) stop development until the thing is fixed? Should I devote all my time to learning the ins and outs of NWNX to be able to apply these skills?

Surely people can see how foolish that would be.

Development is not a zero-sum game. We do what we can when we can. I do understand the frustration though (I personally have a character that I'm waiting for the name change fix to start).
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Liareth
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Liareth » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:44 am

Peppermint wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:54 am
Liareth wrote:This has nothing to do with BD. It has to do with me. ...
I suppose I'm just confused now. I wasn't blaming you. We have this post from a couple months ago:
Liareth 10 Aug 2018 wrote:I've submitted a change to make SetName() work on PCs. It will probably be in the next game patch. After that, it's up to the Arelith developers to hook it up and make it work.
No word on changes since then. You mentioned the change had been 'submitted', which suggested to me it was then on Beamdog's end. Now you're saying it's not; it's on yours.

Regardless.

In the meantime, I don't think there's anything practical Arelith developers can do. They're not professional programmers; they're talented amateurs, none of which possess the knowledge to update NwNX plugins.

Is there some easier solution I'm missing? Please don't say 'bug Beamdog'. We've already done that. Heck, it was already mentioned in a stream a couple months ago, for goodness' sake.
Updating the old NWNX plugin is not viable. Adding a new NWNX function to an existing plugin to change a character's name permanently is trivial. Morderon has written a more complicated plugin in the past himself. Most of Arelith's programmers could figure it out in an hour. You could, too, then hand it to the Arelith team, if it mattered a lot to you. Either way, this has nothing to do with BD - it's not reasonable to expect them to include all NWNX functionality in the base game. They have made many mistakes in the course of the release, but it's not fair to blame them for disguise breaking.

If anything, this is a deficiency in the new NWNX compared to the old NWNX. Just like Arelith, NWNX is a free, community-driven project for which the developers receive no compensation. They tend to work on what is useful to them for their projects and kindly share the end result with the community. Gaps are expected since you're comparing 1 year of development to 15. The project is open source so anyone is free to make improvements.

As for the change I submitted to the base game, more work was required before it could be merged. There are some issues to fix - the changed PC name doesn't appear in saved game previews or the character selection list before joining a server. These are things I consider unimportant but BD considers important. I haven't got around to them yet because I have limited free time and I prefer to spend it working on my own project or relaxing and playing video games.

tl;dr: Anyone can add a new NWNX function to change a character's name which the Arelith team can use to fix this locally with nwscript tweaks to how disguise works in the Arelith code. I'll probably implement the requested fixes to the scripting command the next time I have the urge to improve the game, or if I need it for my own project, or I play a character on Arelith and find that the lack of dynamic names bothers me.

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LittleWeasel
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by LittleWeasel » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:28 am

I'll probably implement the requested fixes to the scripting command the next time I have the urge to improve the game, or if I need it for my own project, or I play a character on Arelith and find that the lack of dynamic names bothers me.
That is actually the best summary I have read on how we all work :) We all play the game (NWN, various serverse, Arelith, Liareth's own project), to have fun ourselves. If we see something that bothers us, we focus on that and fix it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
We are a volunteer run group here ourselves. We all build and enhance Arelith (and our own respective projects) to a place, we enjoy playing on. Yes, there are bugs. Yes, there are things we want. Yes, there are things that could be better. Yes, there are a whole lot of things that could be different. But so long as it doesn't bother us ENOUGH (or so long as we don't have someone with the necessary skillset, who is bothered enough), we are in the "wait and see until it bothers someone enough" stage.) I admit, it requires a lot of patience, and trust and honor in everyone involved. Players, devs, DMs, Admins, etc. for us to just live with the flaws for a little while longer...

Eventually, things will get fixed. Or changed to where they don't need fixing anymore. Eventually, things will move forward. Eventually. Until then, I'll just enjoy what I've got. There is no point in wasting energy in grief on something that I don't have :) (unless it's ice cream and cookies. If I don't have a regular supply of ice cream and cookies, then I do spend energy and grief on that fact. ... And probably go grocery shopping to remedy that... )
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Peppermint
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Peppermint » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:16 am

I see. We're going with the "if Arelith's team isn't doing it, they don't care/are too lazy/dumb" angle.

Thanks for the response, at any rate. It did clear up the confusion!

ETA: That possibly came across a little snarky. Not going to edit it out since it's been quoted anyway--but in retrospect, apologies if so!
Last edited by Peppermint on Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Liareth
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Liareth » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:05 am

Peppermint wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:16 am
I see. We're going with the "if Arelith's team isn't doing it, they don't care/are too lazy/dumb" angle.

Thanks for the response, at any rate. It did clear up the confusion!
I didn't say that the Arelith team didn't care or were too lazy or dumb. On the contrary, I explained earlier that I was too lazy! What I did say is that the Arelith team could fix themselves if they wanted to. (You also could.) The point I was making is that fixing the disguise system isn't BD's responsibility because they never broke it.

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Maladus
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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by Maladus » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:37 pm

These threads are exhausting. Can we stop anytime soon or is the "blame BD" game too fun for some people?

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Re: Beamdog HQ on each new patch

Post by LittleWeasel » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:04 pm

I am going to lock this. It started out in good humor, but it seems to raise some sorenesses. No point in continuing to ride this pony.
Don't take Life too seriously - you'll never get out of it alive...
Mind over Matter... now that I don't have a mind, it doesn't matter...
Ware the Wrath of the Weasel:
*nibble*
*cluck*

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