Haks/Mods - Rollout & Expectations

[Irongron]

(As I stated earlier in the month I am currently busy with a project, and largely absent from Arelith for a few weeks, but am returning briefly to make this post/manage the hak project - another couple of weeks and I'll be back normally)

So the once unthinkable is now very much a reality for Arelith. For a decade and a half we have made do with vanilla NWN resources, and I think made a rather good job of it.

It has become very much the culture of our development, which in some cases has had noticeable benefits, chiefly that we learned to be especially inventive in how to make the most out of what we had - visually in the world itself & mechanically in how we realized new systems and abilities.

THe introduction of haks doesn't just give us potential new 'toys' but also changes the kind of work being done by development staff. In some cases this can require different skills, and as a result, different people - for instance we've never needed an animator on Arelith before. The question 'how can we code this' becomes 'who can make a hak for this' or 'shall we use this existing hak to do it?'

All of this raises a very distinct cause of concern, for myslf as the Creative Lead, but also, I think, for many players. Namely that we risk losing some of Arelith's unique flavour and atmosphere. We have long been masters of our destiny - the things we added to Arelith were unique to Arelith, and tailored towards it; be it our Wild Mage or Epic Spells and abilities, custom paths and much else. We stand to move away from creating content, to 'shopping for it', and by doing so are naturally going to offset our loss of control against the possibilities on offer. It's not purely a question of hak quality, but also whether it is indeed a good fit for our setting - whether it is a FANTASTIC hat, or an interesting new class or path.

Even when we have chosen something it is often going to be the case that we'll need to have it customised & tested - and will have to watch carefully how it performs.

And this leads me onto the problem of troubleshooting. As an example, there is a ballista in vanilla NWN that when placed, will cause a server to crash, there are visual effects that if placed side by side will do the same. In both cases finding these was not easy, even with the limited size on NWNs resources. Therefore dumping thousands of new haks on Arelith is a recipe for distaster - sure other servers may use them, but that doesn't mean they might not be without issue.

So when it comes to adding content, we are going to be slow. There will not be anything like CEP or ProjectQ happening to Arelith - mostly we'll be picking one or two things at a time, adding them, and watching how they fare.

I'm going to continue posting in this thread shorty - to go over the different categories of HAKs, and give an idea of where we currently stand and the current expectaions. I'll also be asking for input from our players one or two areas I'm unsure about.

[Fionn]

Thanks for the update. It sounds like VFX are risky for all. Do you plan to focus on non-VFX content (e.g. new classes) out the gate, or shall I plan on hat shopping for Xmas?

((seriously, thanks for the transparency))

[Irongron]

Well, here is how we've broken down the different areas for HAK inclusion. I'll explain each, then say what to expect, and what questions are outstanding (if any).

ARELITH MECHANICS

What is it? - This is the area of having all existing Arelith specific mechanics/additions & adjustments visible in game.

Things like:

- Having our subraces selectable without first having to through the 'base race'
- Spells, feats and items showing the correct information when examined
- Adding custom abilities like the Arelith epic spells, track and pray to the radial menu.
- Custom classes showing in the class selection list.

What can we expect on this?

This is something of a priority, as its one of the main things off-putting to new and casual players - needing to research offline for all these minor changes is just not user friendly. This will be ongoing I expect, as we aim to gradually migrate content into HAKs. Some of it is fixed with the Arelith Override Collection, will go in from the start.

Any outstanding questions?

My main one is whether this will make it more problematic to retrofit content and make adjustments once the HAK goes in. A lot of Arelith additions can be subject to frequent balance changes and requirements.

CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION

What is it? - This is giving our players more ways to customize their characters.

Things like:

- New head models
- Animations
- Clothing.

What can we expect on this?

This is what many players want most of all, but its also one of the most tricky for us. These things are often rife with bad textures or missing animations. Almost every single thing needs to be looked over by an expert.

There is also Beamdog's future development to consider; we've already seen the new Aribeth model and a new head surface, and if there are future updates to character models then they could conflict with hak content. The trouble here is that unlike some others, once in these haks are hard to remove, as would be used extensively by characters.

Combat animations raise a lot of problems too, as these are generally complicated, and will potentially not support other additions (such as new clothing). Basically to use these we'll need to have animator on hand, and ready to make the changes we require. These can currently be used by players optionally though, so will look into adding some Arelith command to toggle the fighting style.

We will likely be able to add some new emotes very soon, but it will likely be some time before we can offer many new head models or clothing options. I know this is what many players want most of all, so understand the news will be disheartening to some.

Any outstanding questions?

I think players wishing to hasten this process can start their own thread, as we saw elswhere. Screenshot the thing you'd like to see, and name, if you can, where you found it. We'll be going down the list of resources ourselves of course, but such a thread would give us a strong idea of what is popular with the players.

BRAND NEW FEATURES

What is it? - There are a lot of things Haks will allow in terms of brand new game features, some already out there in hak form, others to be made to order.

Things like:
- Climbing/Swimming/flying
- New Classes
- Rideable Worgs and other mounts.

What can we expect on this?

This one too is going to take time, as we continue to take a close look at what is out there, and consider what we want to give priority too. Things like climbing and swimming have huge potential, but would also require a lot of the module itself to be revisited. There's some decent new classes out there, but from experience I know balancing such additions is especially difficult, and we can't rush into those. I've asked the team to look into mountable creatures as a priority here, becuase I feel the Underdark needs that - its complex though, and will not happen immediately.


Any oustanding questions?

The main question here for me is workload. ITs always exciting to add new things into Arelith, but it comes at an opportunity cost of not fixing up everything already in game. We've a big list of Arelith mechanics to get in, which should likely take priority over new features. Hopefully a year or so down the line we'll start seeing some real movement in this area.



Okay, I still have to detail 3 more areas of HAKS, all on the 'World' side, but will do so a bit later!

[flower]

We could begin with adding trivial things like new shield/weapon/armour appearences? If They are trivial


I believe that thing like head models can wait a bit, to ensure no issues come later. Swimming and flying (and also climbing) will demand redisign of areas in modules, and is it not best to put it on the tail of things to do? As you wrote workload would be huge related to these, not only remake whole areas, but also to catch out all possible bugs and glitches.

I would just add as you pt custom content into basic game in character creation put there also awards. So people can select classes related to the aligment from 1 st level (if taking award) and so on.

[Irongron]

So the next 3 areas of HAKs are are all 'World' related.

TILESETS

What is it? This is the addition of tilesets with which to make the world. some are entirely new, others are adjusted versions of those already out there.

Things like:
https://neverwintervault.org/screenshot ... creenshots
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... r-expanded
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... y-tilesets

What can we expect?

Some of these cry out to be used in remakes of existing Arelith areas, others will be useful for new content. As always there are issues of course, also because these haks are among the largest. I've pretty much decided on anything from Zwerkules (You can search for his work on the NWNVault) to go in as soon as content is made.

Any outstanding questions?

I don't really need suggestions on this, as have already researched it extensively. We will only add these as and when we have actual areas made utilising them, so it really depends on the time I find for world building. The HAK city is already progressing nicely, and that will be my first priority. After a decade of using the same old selection of tilesets I can't easily express how keen I am to get started.

NEW PLACEABLES & CREATURES

What is it? New objects to dress the game world, and new creature & animal models to encounter.

Things like:

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... k/myconids
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... ling-ships
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... bles-items

What can we expect?

Placeables can throw up a lot of issues, but possibilities are far too great to ignore. A staff member and I spent some weeks going over around 10,000 of the most popular, getting it down to a list of around 500. These will first find their way into new areas, and once we are certain they can safely be used will gradually be included in existing areas. We are being extremely careful to ensure that they match the style of NWN and don't have any rendering/texture issues.

New creatures can go in a lot sooner, and I've already put together a list of around 50 I'd like to add. We've always been sorely limited in this regard for a world the size of Arelith, so expect to start encountering new things before long.

Any questions?

Because of the scale of the work needed to redress areas I will likely need to recruit some more volunteer area builders so we can cover the hundreds of existing areas that may need to be revisted. We're not at that point though, as these may have issues we can't foresee, so at first will be kept to new areas only (where they can more easily be tracked/removed)

FACELIFTS

What is it? - Haks that improve the appearance of existing NWN areas and creatures, many of which currently exist as overrides.

Things like:

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... elift-haks
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... ompilation

What can we expect?

While many of these are avaiable as overrides, some (especially the tilesets) are superior in HAK form, and some significantly alter the appearance of the world - to such an extent as I require creative control over what players are seeing. An example here is the 'rural' override included in the first example above. It's fantastic, but the addition of trees where there weren't any, can obscure placeable work, for instance in Bramble Woods the ranger station would be entirely covered. Others like the 'cave with ceiling' can conflict with areas where 'Cave Interior' has been used for an external area (such as the jungle hut). Because of that I will be taking an executive decision on which we are going to use, and ensure the world is built/adjusted accordingly.

Many of these are such a significant improvement to the main game that I don't think we can simply hope that players discover the Workshop/Vault and add them individually, especially new players- can end up playing an inferior version of the game. I also think with the addition of NWSync it will increasingly become the norm for players to trust the server to pick for them, and forgo the use of the workshop for such changes.

Any outstanding questions?

I guess this is my biggest question to the playerbase on the subject of HAKS right now. I have explained above why I feel establishing a 'standard' is important, but I can see that there are also cases where players are better left to decide. For stuff that does not need affect how I build the world - such as skyboxes, I think it is better to remain the choice of the player, but for others, such as radically altered creature appearances I would much prefer everyone was seeing the same thing. THe ultimate problem here is that I would essentially start taking away the agency of players in making their own aesthetic choices - many would be glad of that, or even expect it, but for others the change may be unwelcome. I'd definitely be interested in some player input on this aspect.

[Brandon Steel]

Rideable worgs? Holy crap that’d be amazing.

[Irongron]

Rideable worgs? Holy crap that’d be amazing.

[The Incredulous Bulk]

Thanks for this, Irongron.

Also, Glabrezus?

[Brandon Steel]

Rideable worgs? Holy crap that’d be amazing.

That’s freaking incredible.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

Optimization?

[Coul]

Optimization?

Beamdog is working on a rendering rework/rewrite/idk what it's called so that might help with optimization

[Kuma]

FANTASTIC hat

this is my main takeaway from this post tbh

[Skibbles]

Any thought towards new spells?

[TimeAdept]

FANTASTIC hat

this is my main takeaway from this post tbh

[MissEvelyn]

I guess this is my biggest question to the playerbase on the subject of HAKS right now. I have explained above why I feel establishing a 'standard' is important, but I can see that there are also cases where players are better left to decide. For stuff that does not need affect how I build the world - such as skyboxes, I think it is better to remain the choice of the player, but for others, such as radically altered creature appearances I would much prefer everyone was seeing the same thing. THe ultimate problem here is that I would essentially start taking away the agency of players in making their own aesthetic choices - many would be glad of that, or even expect it, but for others the change may be unwelcome. I'd definitely be interested in some player input on this aspect.

Personally, I'd rather uninstall all my graphical overrides and let Arelith take over with haks in that department. I'd love for us all to see the same thing - as long as that thing is prettier than what we have now. Not that our areas are ugly, they're beautiful! But vanilla NWN has aged quite a bit for its time, and I've seen, through overrides, what the power of customization can do. It's amazing and gorgeous. Anyone doubting has only to look through my screenshot folder to see what I'm saying.

So if we can have better forests and trees, wondrous caverns, mountains, cities, and so on? I'd love that so much that I wouldn't hesitate to click unsubscribe on all those graphic-enhancing overrides.

[Ebonstar]

Rideable worgs? Holy crap that’d be amazing.

That’s freaking incredible.

i do not have an image handy but there are rideable spiders as well

[monkeywithstick]

One question I had.
Does the availability of mods make any impact on the speed that proposed rebalances and reworks to existing custom classes and the like can be made? Now some options can be done is a less circuitous fashion?

[Invader_Nym]

I think that cosmetics like armor, swords, robes, cloaks, ect, would be a good start because it's hard to see how they could dramatically alter the nature of Arelith.

I personally ardently oppose the idea of adding new classes through haks. If I had my way I'd remove most of the prestige classes. I'm not for players defining their characters through mechanical options rather than story-telling. I think adding too many races, classes, deities, background perks, ect ect, just gives players the ability to pick pre-packaged, canned characters.

[sad_zav]

>implying story-telling can't substantiate mechanical choices
>implying watering the game down will prevent "pre-packaged" builds

[LaughInTheDark]

I'm not for players defining their characters through mechanical options rather than story-telling.

Well, the game's mechanics are part of the story telling. Sounds like you'd prefer to RP on a forum - this is, in the end, a video game. One that we choose to use as a medium to RP through, but a game.

[Invader_Nym]

>observing that when someone's race, class, religion, culture, background are all pre-packaged computer-generated choices, the result is a pre-packaged computer generated character.

[sad_zav]

you can literally choose all of that.

[Invader_Nym]

Here's a better idea. Remove discipline! It eats up rare, precious skill points and epic feats that not all classes are equally well-positioned to spend. Its mandatory nature starts everyone off with -1 skill point and -1 epic feat.

[Nitro]

I genuinely can't tell if you're being serious right now or not.

[Hexgoblin]

Nym, please cease your crusade against the mechanical depth of this game.