Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

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Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Irongron » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:19 am

Can players who find themselves entirely unable to enter certain areas of the module without repeatedly crashing list them?

For only those that crash 90+% of the time, or simply can't load at all?

I'm seeing a common theme to almost all of these and would like to confirm my suspicions.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Echohawk » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:29 am

Truth be told, the majority of locations are with Northern Outskirts Cordor, and both districts of Cordor.

What's interesting that I've seen is that these crashes have also reflected in 'pulses'. Those transitioning within a certain time frame are often affected together regardless of location.
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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Bryce Silver-Wind » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:32 am

Shadow Cordor - The Temple District - Massive lag and FPS issues there, everywhere else is fine, just that specific area.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Red Ropes » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:13 am

I have noticed that anything that uses 1.69 assets seems to make the game CHUG or crash.

Cordor's nothern outskirts tilset.

The Cultural district and the `house blacony placeables` and stuff like that.

Blackfin, Sencliff and its beaches.

The fugue. (also because its huge and filled with fog)

Bendir Dale.

I think it has to do with how a lot of the 1.69 content was community released and was badly managed, packaged, and processed.

(also all of those places in the shadow plane and anywhere there are particle effects)

vine mine, thorns, caltrops, entangle, evards - these all cause FPS drops for some reason.

--

From an area development perspective, I think the entire shadow plane needs to be given a bit of the `a dab will do` philosophy and all the hundreds of fog / mist placeables removed and replaced with one or two. Maybe even add variety by sinking them up with seasonal variables so they show up in different places at different times of the year.

--

Bendir Dale uses a lot of 1.69 content and is also very large which I think taxes people. Some of the trees in the area, some of the houses are made from placeables from that patch.


I'd probably say a lot of high crash areas could probably be reduced in placeables and maybe broken up or shrunk.
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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Dirac » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:19 am

I get very slow loads on both districts of Cordor. Only recall crashing 1 in 50 or so in Cultural district.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Irongron » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:25 am

Red Ropes wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:13 am
I have noticed that anything that uses 1.69 assets seems to make the game CHUG or crash.

Cordor's nothern outskirts tilset.

The Cultural district and the `house blacony placeables` and stuff like that.

Blackfin, Sencliff and its beaches.

The fugue. (also because its huge and filled with fog)

Bendir Dale.

I think it has to do with how a lot of the 1.69 content was community released and was badly managed, packaged, and processed.

(also all of those places in the shadow plane and anywhere there are particle effects)

vine mine, thorns, caltrops, entangle, evards - these all cause FPS drops for some reason.

--

From an area development perspective, I think the entire shadow plane needs to be given a bit of the `a dab will do` philosophy and all the hundreds of fog / mist placeables removed and replaced with one or two. Maybe even add variety by sinking them up with seasonal variables so they show up in different places at different times of the year.

--

Bendir Dale uses a lot of 1.69 content and is also very large which I think taxes people. Some of the trees in the area, some of the houses are made from placeables from that patch.


I'd probably say a lot of high crash areas could probably be reduced in placeables and maybe broken up or shrunk.
From my evenings investigation and testing this is looking very much like the approach we need to take. I'm not seeing any single resource causing the problem, but rather the larger more resource intenstive areas, especially those using 1.69. Personally I'm lucky enough not experience any of these issues on my machine, but a great many are, and much is going unreported.

I think the only reasonable course of action is gradually go through the most trouble areas and reduce both their amount of dressing and if needs be, their size. Too many people use Intel machines for us not to, and its not really clear this is an issue than can be fixed by any other means.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:22 am

Irongron wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:25 am
Personally I'm lucky enough not experience any of these issues on my machine, but a great many are, and much is going unreported.
As a bit of help from the other side of things, you and I are the only two I know aren't experiencing any of said issues. I'm PM'ing you my DirectX Diagnostic results so we can compare hardware and drivers - maybe we can find a threshold of some kind where the problems are eliminated for them to base their own workaround on?

Can it even work like that? Regardless, it seems to me identifying where problems stop being a thing on a hardware/driver level ought to serve some good.
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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Mithreas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:07 am

Not that simple Aelryn. Looking through reports on the Beamdog site, there are a number of reports of people using Intel HD 630 and Intel Iris 640 chipsets that are having crashes. I use Intel HD 620 (I play on my work laptop) and have no issues. This listing makes clear that my graphics resources are inferior to theirs, and yet, I have no issues.

Though... looking at dxdiags, it seems I have more video memory available.

My (working) system:

Code: Select all

------------------
System Information
------------------
      Time of this report: 10/10/2018, 17:09:39
             Machine name: PC5645
               Machine Id: {BDA0EA89-6749-4D7E-94C6-3FD2FB00592B}
         Operating System: Windows 10 Enterprise 64-bit (10.0, Build 17134) (17134.rs4_release.180410-1804)
                 Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
      System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
             System Model: Latitude 7280
                     BIOS: 1.2.9 (type: UEFI)
                Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7600U CPU @ 2.80GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.9GHz
                   Memory: 16384MB RAM
      Available OS Memory: 16266MB RAM
                Page File: 17067MB used, 5085MB available
              Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
          DirectX Version: DirectX 12
      DX Setup Parameters: Not found
         User DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
       System DPI Setting: 120 DPI (125 percent)
          DWM DPI Scaling: UnKnown
                 Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
           DxDiag Version: 10.00.17134.0001 64bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
           Card name: Intel(R) HD Graphics 620
        Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
           Chip type: Intel(R) HD Graphics Family
            DAC type: Internal
         Device Type: Full Device (POST)
          Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_5916&SUBSYS_079F1028&REV_02
       Device Status: 0180200A [DN_DRIVER_LOADED|DN_STARTED|DN_DISABLEABLE|DN_NT_ENUMERATOR|DN_NT_DRIVER] 
 Device Problem Code: No Problem
 Driver Problem Code: Unknown
      Display Memory: 8260 MB
    Dedicated Memory: 128 MB
       Shared Memory: 8132 MB
        Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (59Hz)
         HDR Support: Not Supported
    Display Topology: External
 Display Color Space: DXGI_COLOR_SPACE_RGB_FULL_G22_NONE_P709
     Color Primaries: Red(0.646984,0.333508), Green(0.321789,0.626477), Blue(0.157727,0.061047), White Point(0.313000,0.329602)
   Display Luminance: Min Luminance = 0.500000, Max Luminance = 270.000000, MaxFullFrameLuminance = 270.000000
        Monitor Name: SE310_S22E310HY / S22E310H (HDMI)
       Monitor Model: S22E310
          Monitor Id: SAM0C2D
         Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
         Output Type: Displayport External
Monitor Capabilities: HDR Not Supported
Display Pixel Format: DISPLAYCONFIG_PIXELFORMAT_32BPP
      Advanced Color: Not Supported
         Driver Name: C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\ki128796.inf_amd64_1f3330aeb111d6ce\igdumdim64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\ki128796.inf_amd64_1f3330aeb111d6ce\igd10iumd64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\ki128796.inf_amd64_1f3330aeb111d6ce\igd10iumd64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\ki128796.inf_amd64_1f3330aeb111d6ce\igd12umd64.dll
 Driver File Version: 24.20.0100.6223 (English)
      Driver Version: 24.20.100.6223
         DDI Version: 12
      Feature Levels: 12_1,12_0,11_1,11_0,10_1,10_0,9_3,9_2,9_1
        Driver Model: WDDM 2.4
 Graphics Preemption: Triangle
  Compute Preemption: Thread
            Miracast: Supported
 Hybrid Graphics GPU: Integrated
      Power P-states: Not Supported
      Virtualization: Paravirtualization 
          Block List: No Blocks
  Catalog Attributes: Universal:False Declarative:False 
   Driver Attributes: Final Retail
    Driver Date/Size: 11/07/2018 10:00:00, 2005472 bytes
         WHQL Logo'd: n/a
     WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
   Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-1A56-11CF-D76B-FB27B9C2D535}
           Vendor ID: 0x8086
           Device ID: 0x5916
           SubSys ID: 0x079F1028
         Revision ID: 0x0002
  Driver Strong Name: oem23.inf:5f63e534fccdbc6c:iKBLD_w10_DS_DC5:24.20.100.6223:pci\ven_8086&dev_5916&subsys_079f1028
      Rank Of Driver: 00D10001
         Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C ModeWMV9_C ModeVC1_C 
         DXVA2 Modes: DXVA2_ModeMPEG2_VLD  DXVA2_ModeMPEG2_IDCT  DXVA2_ModeVC1_D2010  DXVA2_ModeWMV9_IDCT  DXVA2_ModeVC1_IDCT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_Stereo_Progressive_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_Stereo_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_Multiview_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeVP8_VLD  DXVA2_ModeHEVC_VLD_Main  DXVA2_ModeHEVC_VLD_Main10  DXVA2_ModeVP9_VLD_Profile0  DXVA2_ModeVP9_VLD_10bit_Profile2  
Their (crashing) system:

Code: Select all

------------------
System Information
------------------
      Time of this report: 9/5/2018, 17:43:44
             Machine name: DESKTOP-32KB6GA
               Machine Id: {83C64BF6-1780-43D2-9C1A-774DD0AF0D43}
         Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 17134) (17134.rs4_release.180410-1804)
                 Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
      System Manufacturer: Microsoft Corporation
             System Model: Surface Pro
                     BIOS: 233.2110.770 (type: UEFI)
                Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7660U CPU @ 2.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.5GHz
                   Memory: 8192MB RAM
      Available OS Memory: 8118MB RAM
                Page File: 3874MB used, 19090MB available
              Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
          DirectX Version: DirectX 12
      DX Setup Parameters: Not found
         User DPI Setting: 192 DPI (200 percent)
       System DPI Setting: 192 DPI (200 percent)
          DWM DPI Scaling: UnKnown
                 Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
           DxDiag Version: 10.00.17134.0001 64bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
           Card name: Intel(R) Iris(TM) Plus Graphics 640
        Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
           Chip type: Intel(R) Iris(TM) Graphics Family
            DAC type: Internal
         Device Type: Full Device (POST)
          Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_5926&SUBSYS_00261414&REV_06
       Device Status: 0180200A [DN_DRIVER_LOADED|DN_STARTED|DN_DISABLEABLE|DN_NT_ENUMERATOR|DN_NT_DRIVER] 
 Device Problem Code: No Problem
 Driver Problem Code: Unknown
      Display Memory: 4186 MB
    Dedicated Memory: 128 MB
       Shared Memory: 4058 MB
        Current Mode: 2736 x 1824 (32 bit) (59Hz)
         HDR Support: Not Supported
    Display Topology: Internal
 Display Color Space: DXGI_COLOR_SPACE_RGB_FULL_G22_NONE_P709
     Color Primaries: Red(0.640148,0.330578), Green(0.300305,0.600109), Blue(0.150891,0.060070), White Point(0.313977,0.329602)
   Display Luminance: Min Luminance = 0.500000, Max Luminance = 270.000000, MaxFullFrameLuminance = 270.000000
        Monitor Name: Surface Display
       Monitor Model: unknown
          Monitor Id: LGD0555
         Native Mode: 2736 x 1824(p) (59.959Hz)
         Output Type: Internal
Monitor Capabilities: HDR Not Supported
Display Pixel Format: DISPLAYCONFIG_PIXELFORMAT_32BPP
      Advanced Color: Not Supported
         Driver Name: C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\64kb4749.inf_amd64_cbab52bbc1b5079d\igdumdim64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\64kb4749.inf_amd64_cbab52bbc1b5079d\igd10iumd64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\64kb4749.inf_amd64_cbab52bbc1b5079d\igd10iumd64.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\64kb4749.inf_amd64_cbab52bbc1b5079d\igd12umd64.dll
 Driver File Version: 22.20.0016.4749 (English)
      Driver Version: 22.20.16.4749
         DDI Version: 12
      Feature Levels: 12_1,12_0,11_1,11_0,10_1,10_0,9_3,9_2,9_1
        Driver Model: WDDM 2.2
 Graphics Preemption: Triangle
  Compute Preemption: Thread
            Miracast: Supported
 Hybrid Graphics GPU: Integrated
      Power P-states: Not Supported
      Virtualization: Not Supported
          Block List: No Blocks
  Catalog Attributes: N/A
   Driver Attributes: Final Retail
    Driver Date/Size: 25/07/2017 01:00:00, 61452144 bytes
         WHQL Logo'd: Yes
     WHQL Date Stamp: Unknown
   Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-1A66-11CF-2965-3620BDC2DB35}
           Vendor ID: 0x8086
           Device ID: 0x5926
           SubSys ID: 0x00261414
         Revision ID: 0x0006
  Driver Strong Name: oem43.inf:5f63e534fc3bd056:iKBLD_w10_DS:22.20.16.4749:pci\ven_8086&dev_5926&subsys_00261414
      Rank Of Driver: 00D10001
         Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C ModeWMV9_C ModeVC1_C 
         DXVA2 Modes: DXVA2_ModeMPEG2_VLD  DXVA2_ModeMPEG2_IDCT  DXVA2_ModeVC1_D2010  DXVA2_ModeWMV9_IDCT  DXVA2_ModeVC1_IDCT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_Stereo_Progressive_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_Stereo_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeH264_VLD_Multiview_NoFGT  DXVA2_ModeVP8_VLD  DXVA2_ModeHEVC_VLD_Main  DXVA2_ModeHEVC_VLD_Main10  DXVA2_ModeVP9_VLD_Profile0  DXVA2_ModeVP9_VLD_10bit_Profile2  
My drivers are also more recent, so that might be another place to start.
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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Wordless Truth » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:08 am

I don't really get any crashes other than the odd ones which happened more frequently in 1.69 for me, and my system doesn't run on Intel, but since people contributed here with FPS drops, I thought I might as well:

Nearly unplayable FPS drops everytime:
Bendir Dale
Greyhammer Village

Occassional FPS drops to a varying degree, from barely notable to unplayable:
Arcane Tower lobby, Shadow plane

Minor FPS drops barely notable:
Cordor Outskirts
Cordor Cultural District

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by naturaly » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:10 am

My crashes in these areas don’t seem to happen when it’s night in game. Hope this helps!

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Irongron » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:29 am

Wordless Truth wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:08 am
I don't really get any crashes other than the odd ones which happened more frequently in 1.69 for me, and my system doesn't run on Intel, but since people contributed here with FPS drops, I thought I might as well:

Nearly unplayable FPS drops everytime:
Bendir Dale
Greyhammer Village

Occassional FPS drops to a varying degree, from barely notable to unplayable:
Arcane Tower lobby, Shadow plane

Minor FPS drops barely notable:
Cordor Outskirts
Cordor Cultural District
I'm really more interested for now in tracking down the outright intel crashes than FPS drops, but nevertheless you're post is quite interesting. I too get crippling FPS drops in the Earthkin Village, but ONLY when using the NWN Facelift Override.

Are you using that? And if so does the FPS drop go away when removing it?

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by good man of god » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:01 am

Irongron wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:19 am
Can players who find themselves entirely unable to enter certain areas of the module without repeatedly crashing list them?

For only those that crash 90+% of the time, or simply can't load at all?

I'm seeing a common theme to almost all of these and would like to confirm my suspicions.
Hi Irongron,

My list is:

Minmir (Hills)
Bendir Dale (all areas)
Cordor (areas, including the Northern Outskirts, Farms, etc)
Sencliff (Island)
Crinti Ruins (East)

This is because of the Intel issue, and although Beamdog released a patch, all that did was prevent crashing on loading the areas. Now I just crash constantly whilst walking around in those areas, or still can't load them at all.

Does this help? Do you need more detailed information?

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Irongron » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:11 am

It does help, for sure.

I don't need more detailed information for now. I think we're getting closer to isolating this intel problem.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Irongron » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:17 am

Okay, I'm going to reset C&P soon. It would be a huge help if afterwards any player with intel issues crashing in Cordor could check them for improved performance.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by good man of god » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:01 am

Irongron wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:17 am
Okay, I'm going to reset C&P soon. It would be a huge help if afterwards any player with intel issues crashing in Cordor could check them for improved performance.
I'm at work currently - but if you need to hit me up for more testing, let me know.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Irongron » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:24 am

We have updated Cordor, and thus far it looks like Intel crashing has been largely elminated.

This would be a massive breakthrough if true (its the worse EE bug we have), but in order to confirm I need as many players as possible who have this issue to go to Cordor ASAP, and check if they are still crashing.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Wordless Truth » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:51 am

Irongron wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:29 am
I wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:08 am
Stuff
I'm really more interested for now in tracking down the outright intel crashes than FPS drops, but nevertheless you're post is quite interesting. I too get crippling FPS drops in the Earthkin Village, but ONLY when using the NWN Facelift Override.

Are you using that? And if so does the FPS drop go away when removing it?
Alright, that's fair. :)

Yep, that's one of the few overrides I use - I think. I'm at work right now so I can't check. I'll check later and test if removing that override helps.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by good man of god » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am

Irongron wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:24 am
We have updated Cordor, and thus far it looks like Intel crashing has been largely elminated.

This would be a massive breakthrough if true (its the worse EE bug we have), but in order to confirm I need as many players as possible who have this issue to go to Cordor ASAP, and check if they are still crashing.
I'm going to make a test character, Irongron.

I'll hit you up.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by good man of god » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:55 am

Conz1996 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am
Irongron wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:24 am
We have updated Cordor, and thus far it looks like Intel crashing has been largely elminated.

This would be a massive breakthrough if true (its the worse EE bug we have), but in order to confirm I need as many players as possible who have this issue to go to Cordor ASAP, and check if they are still crashing.
I'm going to make a test character, Irongron.

I'll hit you up.
The fix has worked for me - this is the first time I've been in Cordor since EE dropped.

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Re: Intel & EE game crahes in certain areas - where?

Post by Wordless Truth » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:46 pm

Sorry, but I can't test that thing with the override.

Because you fixed all the FPS issues I had in those areas. Removing the override would change nothing ;)

Thank you so, so much, Devs!

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