Is it time to concede?

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Vincent
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Is it time to concede?

Post by Vincent » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:53 pm

Ever since we were all ENHANCED I've had awful FPS in areas such as the Arcane Tower and Kelemvor's Wall. Something about Beamdog's downgrade to the game causes these visual effect heavy areas to become laggy over time (a memory leak?), forcing you to restart your client if you wish to play without stuttering. I've reported this multiple times to Beamdog, on forums and through their bug tracker, though they've yet to do anything about it in seven months now, and all of my friends say that they lag too where they never did before in areas such as Kohlingen (not too sure on the spelling of that one lol).

For clarification, I never experienced this with the original Neverwinter Nights and I have a very good rig that runs most modern games on high to ultra. So, is it time to concede? Do we delete all the pretty visual effects so we can play without slug FPS now that Beamdog has successfully ruined and resold the game to us for a quick buck? Ever since they took over I've been looking forward to every patch... with the futile hope they might actually improve the game and fix this particular issue, but more for the fixes to problems they create with each "update".

So yes, I'm rather upset about this. I'm interested if these issues are localised entirely to me and everyone I know (seems unlikely lol), and whether anyone knows any fixes, or if Beamdog has made any statement on getting their act together.

Angery
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Angery » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:05 pm

I'm inclined to agree, this is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I'd give anything to go back to the original nwn. I have around 300 hours in EE and all of those hours have been spent in frustration of not being able to enjoy the game like I used to. I'm ready to offer my first born son's soul to beamdog if they'll just fix the game already. Who looked at EE and said "wow this game runs worse than the original, let's sell it like that"? It's beyond irritating and I don't think Beamdog really cares at this point. Their patches are few and far between, with nothing substantial in each patch except fixing what THEY broke.

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Irongron
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Irongron » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:23 pm

I can definitely relate to the frustration felt by crashes and FPS drops, it is far from ideal.

Still, at the same time there is much I do find improved about EE, especially in the toolset. I still have high hopes that these issues will get addressed, though I would urge that those of us who experience these problems make sure to be dilligent in reporting them. 10,000 reports of these issues are going to be given a higher priority than 100.

In regard to Kelemvor's Wall, (and the Shadow Plane) I do have one fix in mind that may have a massively beneficial effect:

In both these areas we use dozens, sometimes hundreds of 'mist' placeables to give them their distinctive atmosphere, but with EE now allowing resized placables we could try out how they'd look with just 2 or 3. Standard Mist covers about 1 tile. We could ramp up the size and have it cover 100. I won't really know for certain before I experiment with it though, and its not exactly as fun a prospect for work as developing new content.

At the end of the day though all we can do here is try to work around such problems, but it would be a wasted effort if they're going to get fixed. EE is still in early days, and I feel (hope) there may be a lot more to come.

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Vincent
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Vincent » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:37 pm

Irongron wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:23 pm
At the end of the day though all we can do here is try to work around such problems, but it would be a wasted effort if they're going to get fixed. EE is still in early days, and I feel (hope) there may be a lot more to come.
Massive respect to you and your team Irongron for continuing to improve the server and find ways to work around this thorn in your side (dare I say I feel you folks are the far more competent of the two dev teams). I will encourage everyone I know experiencing this to report it to Beamdog in the hopes of improving both the base game and Arelith.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by PinataPlethora » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:42 pm

Perhaps it would help to crowdsource a list of the absolute most horrible lagfests on the entire server, so that Irongron's proposed workaround can be consolidated into a more manageable project.

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Vincent
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Vincent » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:10 am

The three major ones for me are the tower, Kohlingen and Kelemvor's Wall.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by All The Sinners Saints » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:15 am

After I disabled the "enchanted" graphics I have had minimal crashes or lag. I expect that as the game is patched more beamdog will be able to bring the player side experience to something resembling pre EE nwn in functionality.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by boggle99 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:30 am

Does EE make it easier for the devs and DM's?
Does EE remove all the hoops people had to jump through, avoiding updates and stuff, that nwn needed for backwards compatibility?
Does EE increase the players on the server?

The second and third I can attest to, I don't know about the first. The answer is a resounding yes. It isn't perfect. Right now the dev team are mostly working on fixing stuff transferred over from nwn it seems, given the size of arelith code that Irongron has mentioned in the past, that is such a monumental task that it may be a while till we have updates as regularly as the time scholar midnight sold their soul to the coding gods.

But even with those two out of three yeses I support EE because it promises continued life to the server. No dread that there will be no way for my new computer to pay arelith. No apathy developed because at high level RP I only run into the same players, even though they are excellent.

Yes I get frustrated at lag spikes, though they are better than whenever a storm was over JJs house when I first joined. Right now I am getting random disconnects every three or four hours, which is annoying. But compared to times when the servers crashed for hours because a update reacted badly with the massive framework of code, needed to make old nwn run at a acceptable level, it is little bother.

It is easy to look back and see what was better about the old game we all loved. But it was ugly also, and we still played it warts and all. Arelith before the transition to EE was so good because of our amazing devs, not because old nwn was better than EE. Given time it will be as good again, probably far better. That's what EE gives this server, more time.

P.S. Does EE make the server cheaper to run?

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Twily » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:06 am

I can relate that some of these bugs are really annoying.
That said, EE did fix some bugs I found equally annoying, and has brought some good to the server in a variety of ways.

It really does come down to just reporting a bug if you find one.
I can confirm that Beamdog is watching for bug reports, as just this patch they fixed a bug that I had reported myself (the character straying to the side when walking).

The thing is though, if a bug isn't something they can easily confirm themselves, they're not going to pay too much attention to a single bug report of that problem, as for all they know it could be old hardware, a virus on the reporters PC or any number of other issues unrelated to them.

In the case of bugs where we have no crash log to give them or no easy line of steps to reproduce the bug, we need to all be reporting it. If they have fifty bug reports show up in a short period all stating the exact same problem, they will look into it.
We just need to be diligent and have some patience, and then things will get better.


Bugs to beamdog can be reported here: https://support.baldursgate.com/project ... cker_id=11
If you see someone already reported the same bug as yourself, you can still make a new post. It will draw more attention to the problem, and show it's a large trend.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Ebonstar » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:20 am

ive noticed something that many people who get frustrated forget how the game was 03-05 when it was not streamlined like it was after 10 years and after.

we are working with what basically a game that is 6 months old. I recall 15 years ago at 6 months we had the same frustration that took time to work through.

Lets give beamdog a chance that Bioware had for triple if not larger of a budget and years of bug fixing
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Mr_Rieper
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Mr_Rieper » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:36 am

One thing I've noticed is that if you're looking to play the game singleplayer or multiplayer, EE is most certainly enhanced. It's great. The game's multiplayer is back up, you can browse games and even join other people's games through Steam. There's workshop support. When you're playing the game in short bursts, not many of the problems show.

The real problems with the Enhanced Edition show themselves when you take a look at persistent worlds, and the game is definitely a downgrade from this perspective. Many of the features the server had previously are now broken. Performance issues, crashes, irritating bugs. Promised features that never seem to arrive. Because you spend long periods online and on the same server, you're far more likely to notice these bugs and how EE is lacking when compared to Diamond Edition.

You can definitely tell where Beamdog's priorities lie. It doesn't bother me. I definitely feel like EE was released too soon. By releasing an unfinished product and encouraging the PW communities to change over, they've forced us into an uncomfortable situation. Not a bad one, just uncomfortable.

I don't feel like EE is a bad game. Let's address the elephant in the room, I don't feel like Beamdog was attempting a cash grab and re-selling us an inferior product. However, at the same time, let's not make excuses for the poor decisions made and the priorities being a bit mixed up.

A better thing to focus on would be: What would be a reasonable schedule to keep? What would be a reasonable length of time to wait until the more serious and glaring issues are resolved? Will it take another 6 months to fix most of them? A year? Many of us are worried that the development work on the game will be stretched out and abandoned before giving it the finish it deserves.

The problem isn't just inconvenience. It's a lack of trust in Beamdog, a cynical view of the modern gaming industry and the despair at being held at its mercy yet again.

I, for one, want to see EE do well. To see it do even better. But let's acknowledge the real fears and doubts here.
CosmicOrderV wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:55 pm
Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by RoyalBlood » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:20 am

Wierd stuff, I can agree with some unhappiness in how beamdog launched this, it feels like it's not even 50% done and yet they got us to pay for something we already had.

They should have consulted more with player devs and maybe even bought their content like the hak pack monsters and other models then released EE with all that content.

As far as it goes bug wise I don't know that they had enough beta players to really find all the bugs. And most of how a server like Arelith works is manipulating things away from their initial purpose. This can cause issues Beamdog weren't ready for

I would keep communicating. Things like the Hak downloader are cool, and there are other development s upcoming released by them that look nice.

Should they have had this when they first released? Yeah... It's like we invested in NWN to come. A year after our purchase maybe we'll have a more complete game. It's cheesy and dumb and I'm definitely turned off on beam dog as a company. But they own NwN so whatever

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by good man of god » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:59 am

For me, the real issue with EE is that myself, and other Intel players like me can't load vital areas:

Cordor (any)
Bendir Dale (any)
Sencliff (Island)
Minmir (Hills)

This almost discounts us from playing in any major area in Surface, meaning I cannot do most things I want to do IG until I was for a fix that feels like its never coming.

S.O.S

Hehe.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by TimeAdept » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:02 am

Ebonstar wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:20 am
ive noticed something that many people who get frustrated forget how the game was 03-05 when it was not streamlined like it was after 10 years and after.

we are working with what basically a game that is 6 months old. I recall 15 years ago at 6 months we had the same frustration that took time to work through.

Lets give beamdog a chance that Bioware had for triple if not larger of a budget and years of bug fixing
Nah. Beamdoggo is working on an android port. They got the money, port it to mobile, call it good. Break more than they fixed and call it a day. The community will fix it, like they always have, except for what they can't because they went through and hardcoded more things.

I have no faith in them to actually fix anything or add anything of value.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by RoyalBlood » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:07 am

There is some hope to hard coded things. One thing to say on Beamdog behalf is that they listen to players and seem to make fixes by request when they can I guess. Their ears are open , and that's encouraging I guess.

I do understand the sentiment though, like I said in my earlier post I don't harbor a ton of respect for Beamdog as a company. Like most they launch something half baked then release the rest of it later (or not) Like a cake but the center is mushy cause it didn't take long enough.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by StrykerMontgomery » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:52 pm

My subpar Intel has minimum settings. I dont "have everything on" but it still lools better than normal NWN with everything maxed on my end. Maybe i just don't care for super pretty lights.
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Brandon Steel
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Brandon Steel » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:07 pm

Conz1996 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:59 am
For me, the real issue with EE is that myself, and other Intel players like me can't load vital areas:

Cordor (any)
Bendir Dale (any)
Sencliff (Island)
Minmir (Hills)

This almost discounts us from playing in any major area in Surface, meaning I cannot do most things I want to do IG until I was for a fix that feels like its never coming.

S.O.S

Hehe.
Honestly can’t believe the majority of intel users still can hardly play the game after this long. This is what bothers me the most.

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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Mr_Rieper » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:17 pm

I haven't noticed any areas with major lag problems, and I hardly crash, personally. The game is pretty stable on my end.

Problem is, recommending it to friends who take the leap of faith, buy the game and run into all these problems themselves. I feel a bit embarrassed for leading them into such a mess.
CosmicOrderV wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:55 pm
Be the change you want to see, and shape the server because of it. Players can absolutely help keep their fellow players accountable.

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Irongron
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Irongron » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:31 pm


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naturaly
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by naturaly » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:47 pm

Brandon Steel wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:07 pm
Conz1996 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:59 am
For me, the real issue with EE is that myself, and other Intel players like me can't load vital areas:

Cordor (any)
Bendir Dale (any)
Sencliff (Island)
Minmir (Hills)

This almost discounts us from playing in any major area in Surface, meaning I cannot do most things I want to do IG until I was for a fix that feels like its never coming.

S.O.S

Hehe.
Honestly can’t believe the majority of intel users still can hardly play the game after this long. This is what bothers me the most.
This is what I feel too. It been several months now.

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Irongron
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Re: Is it time to concede?

Post by Irongron » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:57 pm

Locking this thread now, please feel free to continue any discussion of this on the link provided above.

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