How would you play an atheist character?

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AlauraElizabeth
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How would you play an atheist character?

Post by AlauraElizabeth » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:19 pm

So god worship is a pretty huge thing on Arelith. So how would you make an atheist character? Just select no diety and accept no god saves (and permadeath? Did I read that right? )
Or would you select a diety that represents your characters personality and goals?

I’ve never met an atheist character yet, so I am curious to know if it’s been done and how the experience was lol
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by kiljaedon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:25 pm

I don't think an atheist can be logical on this server. Purposely choosing to not worship any god yes but when proof of the existence of the pantheon is abundant it leaves little doubt gods exist.

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Cortex » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:25 pm

Atheism is not the same in FR. It's impossible to think gods don't exist, so instead an atheist would be someone who disbelieves/hates/etc the gods, and may or not know they'll end up as a literal brick in the Wall when their time comes. Nothing stops you from respawning if you die though.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by R0GUE » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:30 pm

Atheism is a wierd thing in D&D/Forgotten Realms because you can see literal PROOF of the gods almost every day. When people pray for powers they receive them, I mean how do you dispute gods exist? It more common to see people who are Anti-deists, like they believe the gods do exist, but they hate them.

Having said that if you really wanted to play an atheist I could see it taking one of two paths:

1) Your character is insane. They are in complete denial of the existence of gods due to some trauma inflicted upon them. They feel like the manifestation of prayers and calls to aid from deities is just parlor tricks and attempts by the clergy to fool people and keep them sedated and easily controllable.
2) Your character is a trouble maker. They probably on some level understand gods exist, but they are so deeply anti-deity that they've fooled themselves into becoming atheist, with the idea that the notion of gods and churches are "fake news". They are running an anti-religion campaign that relies on the denial of the existence of gods, and they tricked themselves into believing their own hype.

What do you think?

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Tourmaline » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:35 pm

You'd basically be insane and seen like Flat Earth people are in our world.

Agnostic is possible.. You are not interested or maybe you're so stupid and arrogant you think you're above any sort of worship. In which case you can just not pick a deity (and miss out on the perks, but it could be an interesting challenge.)

Last option is picking Toril if you want to venerate nature instead of worshipping a deity. That's almost in line with a lot of real life atheists.

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by whoisthisis » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:36 pm

In Forgotten Realms they are known as the Faithless. It is not a pretty fate.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faithless
Last edited by whoisthisis on Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by iria_huntress » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:37 pm

I played an atheist kensai once. A human that couldn't use magic, and had 32 spell resistance (so, at lower levels, it was truly convinced they were parlor tricks, because the pretty lights did nothing to them). I had a lot of fun with it.

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by msterswrdsmn » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:40 pm

I've seen it done a few times. I think the last one I saw was Kira and Jillian (maybe?) both of whom were members of Light Keep of all things.

The people i've seen do it didn't go "the gods don't exist", because its impossible to do that when you can grab a priest and have them raise the freaking dead. Instead, it was more along the lines of "I don't worship any of the gods because they failed me, or I haven't found one that suits my personal beliefs. All of the characters i've seen do it had a cynical or pessemistic side, usually stemming from the gods failing them, or because of the (sometimes petty) drama that arose from religious differences.

"I acknowledge the Gods exist and they're effing awful" sort of mentality

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Wytchee » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:19 pm

Ask InTheFlesh. His character has a fairly good reason for spurning the gods.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by thingsicantdo » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:26 pm

like others have said: atheist would be straight up delusional, like a flat earther, or people who believe pineapples grow on dogs.

the existence of the gods in the forgotten realms is verifiable fact. to not believe in them would be as absurd as believing that up is down and down is up. it's complete silliness.

that said, you can play a faithless character, or someone who refuses to worship the gods for whatever reason. in that case, i would just treat them as extremely powerful entities who don't deserve worship. perhaps i would believe that they're using mortals (they are) for their selfish schemes (which is true).

EDIT: in the past it's been suggested to choose a deity that might support your character, even if they don't worship them. cyric, for example, might lend the occasional aid to a lying murdering psychopath, even if they don't deserve it (so long as his actions are furthering cyric's agenda), for example. i play polytheist characters (like every non-cleric should!) so, i choose whatever god[dess] that fits my needs, and pray to whatever god[dess] is relevant at the time of praying (like most of the people of the world would). you can do something similar with a non-religious character, as well

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by AlauraElizabeth » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:47 pm

I really like the info you guys brought up, thanks for the feedback! I actually wasn’t thinking of making an atheistic character, this was inspired by hearing a character mentioning their worship of Toril- but some of these ideas you guys bring up actually sound like a really fun challenge to play. Mostly a new spin on a bad guy hohoho *insert evil hand rub*

@R0GUE - I ~really like both of these ideas lol

@whoisthis - that was both depressing and delightful to read. I love fr lore and have never heard of this
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Eters » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:34 pm

You can also take it from the perspective of one that lives with the philosophy of "I don't need the gods in my life."

What this basically means is that the character believes that he is one to forge his own life by his own hands and his own means without requiring any blessings or favors or needing to lower themselves to pray to any diety. It is not disbelieving dieties, but more of a "refusal to subdue your fate to them."

The character can be quite arrogant in believing themselves to be above all those filthy casuals that pray to the gods for the sweet sweet godsaves etc.. and consider such in itself an act of weakness and an insult to the FREEDOM people can have by just doing their stuff themselves.

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by MoreThanThree » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 pm

Literally every atheist character I've ever encountered was actually Sharran/Infernalist, and their disbelief in gods was a cover for worshiping things which are not gods.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by susitsu » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:29 pm

in the way arelith seems to regard reviving, THE FAITHLESS literally shouldn't be respawning. oh well.

alternatively, you could be a true master of the atheistic arts and don your fedora

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ur-priest

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Wytchee » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:46 am

MoreThanThree wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 pm
Literally every atheist character I've ever encountered was actually Sharran/Infernalist, and their disbelief in gods was a cover for worshiping things which are not gods.
There are a few active right now that I know are atheists and also not Sharrans.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Scraps » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:55 am

Well, one way of playing an 'atheist' character could be to deny the divinity of the Forgotten Realms pantheon. Have your character feel they're too petty or too weak to define as Deity. When you consider there are plenty of entities in the Forgotten Realm that display god-level or near god-level powers but aren't classified as such, its not too ridiculous.

Beyond that, you could maybe use some of the same argument to argue for a monotheistic deity with say Shar, or Ubtao

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:13 am

To be briefly tangential, I think there's a really weird space that occurs when we have characters from Shou Lung, Zakara, etc., interact on Arelith. While the "gods are very real" and the "gods are embodiments of good and evil", this is less-so in the traditional non-Faerun regions of Abeir-Toril. There are very strong faiths and religions, but (don't quote me) there's never anything quite in the magnitude of the Time of Troubles.

If someone could explain to me how the Faithless and the Wall interacts with non-Faerun, that'd be great. Because I've always seen atheism/nihilism occurring beyond the borders of Faerun as something more feasible.

The problem with atheism in Faerun is that the Time of Troubles was very real. Lots of people died. Shit happened. You'd have to approach atheism in a very, very thoughtful way. There's a difference between disbelieving in a higher power and rejecting the gods. Rejection/refusal acknowledges existence. I'm no theologian, but you're starting to get into muddied waters.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:14 am

If I was going to play this character (and not have them be delusional), the route I would take goes something like this.
Thesis: Denying Divinity wrote:These beings aren't gods. They can be killed- several were slain spectacularly and publicly not that long ago, others were seen performing 'miracles' in the streets for their followers. At the end of the Time of Troubles, some mortals ascended to godhood themselves!

But there is the trick, then - none of them are gods. That's simply how they choose to present themselves- and we let them, and perpetuate it, aiding their power.

They have found a way to take the faith of the willfully blind and turn it into power- power that perpetuates itself, as its demonstration spreads their word and their way of thinking, creating more blind faith.

The 'gods' are immortal as long as they have worshippers- but just like any other spiritual being, they can be destroyed. They are vulnerable creatures with whims and tempers just like us. But people choose not to see that, to relieve themselves of a sense of responsibility by blaming their misfortunes and mistakes on things like fate and divinity rather than themselves.

This is something that pushes us away from bettering ourselves as a consequence of our actions and choices.

Some of these 'gods' are even kind...

But they are all liars, perpetuating a cycle of stagnation and hindering our evolution. And for that... I bow my head to none of them.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Roketter » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:30 am

There are a few ways.

-Worship something that's clearly not a god or god like entity or an item of any gods portfolio.

-Be a bitter dark genius level persona who's figured out some other way to endure, avoiding the wall, punishment in this life or the next, and do without the gods that you despise. The world is filled with magic to achieve this in one or another way so why not give it a shot ? Not like worshiping a god ensures safety, gods get killed too you know ?

-Believe that there is nothing after death, no afterlife or anything of the sort (at least for yourself). Technically you would clearly be in the right no matter whatever silly cleric spouts at you. Lack of belief in afterlifes ensure there will be none. And to any cleric that comes tell you that you'll be stuck in a wall tell them you'd rather be stuck on a wall than be the slave forced to recite pathetic chants to undeserving spirits.

-Have a completely different religious practice that does not involve "Gods". Believe in perfecting yourself and achieving a greater state of being and fusing yourself with the cosmos. Believe in eternal reincarnation and pick a class that can actually do it (Druid wink wink).

-Shar has a Nihilistic approach on godhood and worshiping her is very close to being an Atheist. Of course she is a contradiction because hello she's a godess, but if she was true to her goals, then worshiping her as more of a guide than as a true godess is a philosophical way of being an atheist and she wouldn't be offended i guess.

-Worship yourself and have others do so as well. No wait keep reading, this has a point!

Become a powerful leader. THen concentrate your settlements resources on on building a stone and bronze colossus in your own image. This will be the greatest feat of construction (not to mention megalomania) the island has ever seen. If this statue is completed, the awe it will generate for the king will convince many thousands that you are indeed -maybe- a god.

Then, creating an Imperial Cult that worships you as a living god. Next, you might want to consider removing the old religions, smashing statues of previous gods and replacing them with images of your new faith. Lasting monuments to your greatness are the best option toss in a great wall and a couple of pyramids. Conquest of your neighbors will help to ensure you are remembered, and should help provide the labor force for the aforementioned monuments.

Now, here's where things gets tricky: are you going to ascend to the Upper Realms in a flash of blinding light, or are you going to take your place amongst the gods upon your death? For the former, you probably aren't going to reach your goal in one lifetime, so you'll have to come up with some method of life extension. After that, spend the next several centuries maintaining the power of your nation/cult and accruing sorcerous knowledge and might; eventually, one assumes you'll garner enough mojo to force your way into the heavens. On the other hand, you might not be willing to make that kind of time investment. In which case, you're going to need a tomb. Big one. Basically, you've got to run with the idea that you CAN take it with you. You'll need riches, slaves, provisions, and a big damn army to accompany you to the afterlife and probably FIGHT ALL THE GODS WHO HATE YOU FOR REPLACING THEM. Some of the more progressive civilizations might say that you can get by with terra-cotta effigies and the like, but why chance it? If your aforementioned campaigns of conquest were properly successful, you should have more than enough human resources to tap into. You'll probably also want to put all your nation's scholars and wizards to the task of researching and developing the appropriate spells to ensure your transformation into a god upon your death. You'll also need to decide if you want to take them with you when you go, taking into account whether or not you want your descendents to join you as gods. On the plus side, this method is much quicker than the other. Unfortunately you really only have one chance to get it right, with very little room to experiment. Still, that's the chance to take with those Get-Deification-Quick schemes.

(copied from here https://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-304121.html)

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Diilicious » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:33 am

mechanically, ask a DM for Mark of Destiny, have them remove 9 of the 10 lives.

and then, there you go.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Rwby » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:37 am

MoreThanThree wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 pm
Literally every atheist character I've ever encountered was actually Sharran/Infernalist, and their disbelief in gods was a cover for worshiping things which are not gods.
In defence of Sharrens everywhere, Shar is actually a God[dess].
It's just a secret we're not ready to let you in on yet.
Best you forget it. And us.

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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:13 am

You can't really play an Athiest character as in, 'I don't believe that gods exist.' Because they really do. People are using the Flat Earthers as an example, but it's not even that subtle. It's like a person you meet saying. 'I don't believe that women exist.' 'Huh? but there's a woman right over there?' 'No. No all women are men in costumes pretending.' It's genuinly pretty crazy talk, especialy with the amount of magic that gets thrown around in FR.

That being said- you can roleplay someone who distains the gods (believes they exists but believes they're all awful) or someone who just hasn't really found a god they want to entrust their soul to yet... or some other variation. There's lots of interesting ways to follow that particular course of thought.

But believing the Gods don't exist -at all- is pretty nuts.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Dr_Hazard89 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:21 am

I'd -delete_character after dying.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by BrutalForce48 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:08 pm

I'd play an Imaskri that believes gods exist but has a disdain for them, especially thayan gods.
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Re: How would you play an atheist character?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:04 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:14 am
If I was going to play this character (and not have them be delusional), the route I would take goes something like this.
Thesis: Denying Divinity wrote:These beings aren't gods. They can be killed- several were slain spectacularly and publicly not that long ago, others were seen performing 'miracles' in the streets for their followers. At the end of the Time of Troubles, some mortals ascended to godhood themselves!

But there is the trick, then - none of them are gods. That's simply how they choose to present themselves- and we let them, and perpetuate it, aiding their power.

They have found a way to take the faith of the willfully blind and turn it into power- power that perpetuates itself, as its demonstration spreads their word and their way of thinking, creating more blind faith.

The 'gods' are immortal as long as they have worshippers- but just like any other spiritual being, they can be destroyed. They are vulnerable creatures with whims and tempers just like us. But people choose not to see that, to relieve themselves of a sense of responsibility by blaming their misfortunes and mistakes on things like fate and divinity rather than themselves.

This is something that pushes us away from bettering ourselves as a consequence of our actions and choices.

Some of these 'gods' are even kind...

But they are all liars, perpetuating a cycle of stagnation and hindering our evolution. And for that... I bow my head to none of them.
While I enjoy this take on it, I have problems with the logic. A character that espouses the above is evidently a learned one, so wouldn't they know about the Wall of Faithless? The very real and tangible purgatory where you dissolve into nothingness?

It seems hard to reconcile a belief that the gods aren't gods because of their occasional mortality with the absolute and unequivocal power has on the direction of your "afterlife."

Willful atheism sounds like willful idiocy. I don't want to bash on the concept, because I find FR theology a convoluted and intricate mess of cool questions and debates (and the epicentre of basically every conflict). However, the omnipresence of divinity is really hard to dispute or question.
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